SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet!  I'm really, really happy to be with you again. And I know you will be so happy you're joining us today. And I say us because of course, I have a very special guest... And it's Allison Orlovsky, who is a Relationship and Intimacy Coach. Welcome, Allison...

ALLISON: Hello, how are you?

SAMIA: I'm doing great. And you know what, I'm going to have you jump right in and tell us more about who you are, and what you do...

ALLISON: First of all, I'm super excited to be here and get to have this conversation with you. As you mentioned, I am a Relationship and Intimacy Coach, and I support primarily individuals in leveling up the passion, play and partnership in their relationships. I primarily support individuals in that rather than couples, because I think there are so many benefits in really being able to have a space for you to process all of your stuff. And then I get to help empower you to take that to your relationship. So just a little background... So that's what I do… a little background about who I am… I am a mom of three biological children and two bonus kiddos. I am a partner, I am a friend, a daughter, a wife… and I love being all of those things. Let's see, I started out my career in corporate finance. And so lived that whole life of just hectic, go, go go... You know, lots of deadlines, lots of stress. And I was a single mom. So I forgot to mention, I was divorced twice by the time I was 35, so that's kind of what brought me into this field... So after, you know, 20 years in that space, I left a job and I'm like, I just don't want to do this anymore... Like what's, what's next for me… like, this is not the life that I want to live… and hired a coach. And it was life-changing to work with a coach and really be able to have someone partner with me, reflect back to me, help me unravel and uncover a lot of the things that had been stifled within me… or a lot of years as you're just trying to, like, keep all the balls in the air as a professional woman that is also a mom and a wife. And so as I moved into coaching, I first did, excuse me, executive and leadership coaching because that seemed really practical. Like, okay, I'm using… I'm still using my professional knowledge. And yes, now I get to coach with such… which is something fulfilling... But then I stepped in and really realized a couple years after doing that, that I still wasn't feeling that really fulfilled feeling that I wanted… like you know, excited to get out of bed in the morning… I still wasn't there. And then it hit me that relationships and supporting people and building really powerful relationships was the thing that I was meant to do. And everything that I had experienced and learned through my divorces, through my marriages, through my divorces, and now in building a really beautiful relationship, that there was a purpose for all of that. And that's how I get to make a difference in this world and experience joy for myself...

SAMIA: I love that. And thank you so much for sharing that journey that you took. And you know, I really think, like, for me personally, I remember one of my mentors, who’s like a business coach, asking me this question… and it immediately, you know, struck a chord with me, where he was like, you know, especially for a lot of us coaches, you know, we get into this work, because we're so passionate about helping and supporting people… and in terms of, you know, when we're going through our process of trying to figure out who's my ideal client that I want to really focus on… sometimes it can feel very confusing… but my coach was like, you know, think about your life experiences, and think about where you have actually maybe experienced some of the biggest challenges in your life and learned how to overcome them… you know that's probably where you're going to be best at helping other people. And so… and you know that... for me, that also gives a lot of credibility to the work that you do. Because you're not just coming from like a theoretical place… you're like, sharing real wisdom… like you've been through challenges in this arena, and learned from them. And, you know, it makes a difference. I know so many therapists for example who, you know, like they have master's degrees and PhDs, but they don't necessarily have the real-life experience in this specific area that they're trying to help a person… given person with… And it makes a difference, it absolutely makes a difference. Because I've been on that receiving end of trying to get help from someone that is a professional, and supposed to know what they're doing, but they're missing that real-life experience of what I need help... And then, you know, it's just sometimes… I mean, it doesn't always create a disconnect, but it can, you know, so...

ALLISON: Yeah, I absolutely, I agree with that. The relatability is powerful because you need to feel safe to be really vulnerable. And if somebody doesn't get you and can't relate to what you're going through, there tends to feel like there's a lot of judgment around it. And that doesn't make people feel safe. And I can absolutely relate to that… I experienced as I was going through my coach training program, we were assigned coaches… and I did not relate to my coach at all. And it was a gift... I was frustrated in the moment, and I wanted a different coach. But this woman in particular, well, she was a great coach in a certain way… the relatability wasn't there… and she didn't have children, and I had children. And there were things that… well, it's not that important… or, that won't traumatize them... And I'm like, well, no, but it might traumatize me as a mom… Like, if I don't get to be present for those experiences… like this is what I work for… that I get to be there to celebrate when they play their sports… and I get to witness that when I'm taking them to all of these practices… this is my reward… is getting to experience that. And if you can't understand and relate to, like, that… it's yeah, it's not going to traumatize them. But that's not the point, right... So that was just an example in terms of that relatability and feeling safe. And then I didn't feel safe to like, go deeper with her or share because then it felt like, well, you just… you don't get it, just as you said. 

SAMIA: Yeah…

ALLISON: And so yeah, I think, you know, going through all that I went through, I went through a really messy divorce... I've went through, you know, with somebody that like we were in court for years and years and years. And then I was in a very amicable divorce where we co-parented, and co-parent in a really healthy way. You know, I dated in my mid-30s. I've blended families... Like, I've done all of the things. And so that's what I hope that people when they choose to work with me that they get a sense of safety and relatability and that they're not being judged by how it went. Because I also know I was a really good person. And I still ended up with two divorces. Just because you're divorced doesn't mean you're a horrible person. And I think there's some of that stigma out there...

SAMIA: Yes... Oh, thank you for bringing that up. Because that is so true. And that's I think more true in some cultures for sure than in other cultures… for example, in our Indian/Pakistani culture… by our I mean, my Indian/Pakistani culture… divorce is like such a big taboo, especially for women. It's like the men can go do whatever they want with their lives, mess it up in all kinds of ways, you know, but society forgives them… But a woman who has been divorced… It's… there's huge stigma around that… and, you know, I can't tell you like how much drama gets created if she wants to get remarried or, you know, enter into a new relationship… it is just really, really not good. And so that makes me think about my first question. And that is, like, what in your experience are like some of the... or like maybe one of the big reasons why people might have relationship struggles, even when it’s good people on both sides…

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ALLISON: Honestly, I think the biggest reason that probably on some level, the majority of the world struggles with relationships, is because we're not actually taught how to be in a relationship... And what I mean by that is, there's you know… we go through 12 years of… for most people, right, some sort of elementary education, high school education here in the US… college, trade school, technical college… like there's all of these ways that we get to learn about how to BE something... Be a doctor, be a drywaller, right… be an accountant… but there's not anything that teaches us how to be a partner or a spouse. 

SAMIA: Yes. 

ALLISON: And the best that we have, for most of us, are our parents. And for some of us, we learn more of what we don't want from them... 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

ALLISON: And even for those of us that, like our parents may have had a really great relationship… it's what we didn't see… Like, you know, some people are like… my parents had a great relationship, they never argued.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

ALLISON: Okay, so then either they were holding stuff back, or they did have disagreements, but they did it behind closed doors. So you didn't actually get to witness that it's okay to have disagreements, and how to have healthy disagreements...

SAMIA: Right. 

ALLISON: Right. Or talk about finances, or have conversations about intimacy and sex… like those things that all play into a really powerful relationship...

SAMIA: Yes... Yes... 

ALLISON: So yeah.

SAMIA: Man, that's such an excellent point, and I’m so much in agreement with you... Because even as a happiness expert, when I think about, like, why are so many people struggling with their happiness… and a lot of that, you know, does relate to our not being able to have healthy, happy relationships… I also think it's because of that lack of education. It's like, who is actually teaching you, and when, about how to be happy, how to have healthy relationships… I don't have, you know, like healthy communication in your relationships... And you know, it's like, you just get expected to absorb somehow through life experience, the learnings about these things. But what if you don't have healthy models, you know, especially that can be a huge challenge. But even if you have healthy models, like you said, you can't always figure it out just by, you know, being there. Like, sometimes you need explicit, explicit teaching... 

ALLISON: Yeah, I think that is so... I think it's the missing… one of the biggest missing pieces. And I think, you know, we sit and struggle, and suffer, you know, with happiness, and with our relationships, right… there so integrated… happiness and relationships... And I focus on romantic relationships, marriages… but it can be a relationship with your family, with coworker… like all of your relationships… Like our life is a big bowl of spaghetti, right. You can't just like pull out one piece, and it doesn't have sauce and meatballs, and all the stuff. It's all intertwined... And so from that place… but because there's also this one… I think that education isn't out there. And that's what you and I are trying to do, right, is changed that. And then also the stigma… like, trying to like break down, that there's something wrong with me if I need support or help, right… And it's bigger than, you know… mental health is this new awareness that we're creating, and we're trying to shift… that getting supported with our mental health is just as valuable… Like why do we… we go to the doctor when, you know, we sprain an ankle... Why don't we go, you know, to a therapist or a counselor or coach when, you know, we experience some level of trauma or challenge, or, right… we… there's a different experience or stigma with that... And I think, you know, the opportunity is to like, actually be proactive and say… hey, instead of waiting till we're like all falling apart... right… and going to the doctor and being like, there's 60 things wrong with me… 

SAMIA: Yeah…

ALLISON: We don't think anything about going to college... That's so normal. Everybody goes to college. What do you mean, you don't know how to be a doctor? You have to go to college to be a doctor?... Says no one ever... So to really, right… like on this proactive side, like, what do you mean you don't know… be how… you don't know how to be happy...

SAMIA: Yeah… 

ALLISON: What that feels like... What that experience is... How to make it happen...

SAMIA: Indeed…

ALLISON: The majority of people in this world, I would not say would classify themselves as happy, right... Or that their relationships… I mean, in the US alone, 50% of marriages end up in divorce, and how many more people are just sitting there suffering... Unwilling to get divorced, right? So how many… what's the percentage of people that are actually in great relationships?

SAMIA: Right.

ALLISON: The minority, right… and I think the same thing is true with happiness. And so the opportunity for you and I is to go out there and change the world...

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed. And that's what we're working on. So okay, so we have a problem that we have identified in terms of lack of education. And really, you know, I love this problem because it's a nice problem to solve, you know… it's like, if lack of education is a problem, guess what, there's lots of education out there… or people who have that ability to help you get that education and so forth. So it's a nice problem to solve. And so when we… when... when you start helping people solve this problem, what's one of your favorite lessons to teach them...

ALLISON: So many good ones... I think if I have to pick one… I think one of my favorite lessons… because it's also it's an empowering one, is ultimately… this is how I put it… double down on your self-worth, to level up your relationship.

SAMIA: Hmm...

ALLISON: Right. And that ties so well into happiness, right, that when we can understand our own value, inherently, and we can love ourselves… and that can be a whole another conversation, because I know self-love, like everybody hears the idea, but what does that really mean... So we can talk about that another time... But when you can fully love yourself, and understand your worth for yourself and take care of yourself... and know that you're worthy of having your needs met… and taking care of your needs… it creates a standard that other people need to… that you set for yourself of how you will be treated, right. And that then other people are more likely… they will honor how you need to be treated… But that it also takes… so you get to have your needs met. And it also takes the pressure off the relationship for someone to try and be a mind reader… for someone to always anticipate your needs… for someone to always do enough for you to feel loved.

SAMIA: Right.

ALLISON: Right, that you're creating this unwinnable experience when you put that all on someone else...

SAMIA: Yes. Okay, so actually, I'm seeing like two really important issues here in what you mentioned... So the first really important question that I would love to dig deeper into with you is… I mean, again, I'm in agreement with you about how important it is for us to have self-love, and that really solid sense of self-worth. And I think my question is sort of like around the challenge that we can experience in cultivating self-love and cultivating self-worth... Because, again… I mean, maybe, it's again part of that lack of education issue. But if like, I think back to my experiences, especially when I was younger, and I think about okay, how did I even begin to have any sense of how worthy I am or how lovable I am... A lot of it had to do with the feedback that I thought I was getting from the world about me and how good or not good I am. So like, for example, I got some good feedback about me… like I've always been a good student in school, I got good grades. So I knew I was good that way. But there were other areas of my life where I didn't get good feedback... You know, like… well, things got a little complicated because I'm a trauma survivor… and so after I experienced my trauma of being sexually abused as a child, I had a huge personality change. And I didn't tell people in my family about, you know, the trauma I'd experienced. And they were lost as to being able to understand why I had such a change in my personality. But I got lots of flack about that, you know… It was like, Samia, you're being rude… Samia, you know, why don't you do this? And why don't you do that? And you used to be like this, and you used to be like that, but now, you're not so good anymore in those ways that you used to be so good... And you know… And so then it made me think I'm bad in all of these ways. And it made me feel bad about myself. And, you know, it sort of like became a part of, you know… like how I related to myself for a long time. And until I, you know, put in some serious time and effort and gained more understanding about trauma, and started healing my trauma, I couldn't quite overcome that sense of, yeah, I'm not good enough to be loved because, you know, I have become bad... And, like I just thought I'd become bad. I didn't… when I was younger, I didn't put two and two together and think, Oh, I've changed because of the trauma. I didn't... I just, you know, I didn't even get to put that together until much, much later. So like, so much of our sense of self-worth, and self-love comes from, you know, the… from our relationships around us. And so how do you actually… I mean, it feels like, in some ways, it's like a… like a double bind kind of a situation. It's like, yeah...

ALLISON: Right. So I hear what you're asking...

SAMIA: Yeah.

ALLISON: And so unfortunately, it's a learning experience, right… to your point, the maturity level of that child that did nothing wrong, that went through this trauma, and then experienced this over here… the maturity level of that brain at that point in time is not one that's gonna be like, yeah, I'm still worthy and lovable... So unfortunately, this is something that most adults will have to work through… to actually experience… Because what we have to do is get to the truth of who we are, outside of anybody else's judgment... Right, and it's a process… it's usually not a light switch that just, oops, I see that I got it… done... Right, but it's unlearning. It's taking off all of those old identities that people gave us...

SAMIA: Yeah...

ALLISON: ...about who we are… and for us to recognize, that's not who I am… those truths, those things aren't true about me… I'm not bad. Right... And again, this is often where I will suggest you get support for this. You get a therapist, you get a coach… you know, a support group of some sort… This is typically not something you're going to go it alone. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a traumatic experience, right... But to have somebody to go through and figure out your self-worth… But to have somebody that can walk back… and walk by you… and reflect back… hey, I noticed this thing… and ask you questions and help you get to the truth of who you are, you know… And I see self-love as a component... Like there's four pillars that create self-love. So because a lot of people think of self-care, as self-love, right... okay, if I go to the gym, I eat healthy, I meditate, journal, whatever...

SAMIA: Yeah.

ALLISON: ..that means I'm loving myself. Those are actions and yes, you are. It is one pillar of self-love. There's self-care. There’s self-trust, self-worth, and self-forgiveness. So when you can start to look at each one of those pillars, and trust who you are, trust what's right for you, trust what you need, trust where your boundaries are, right… And then you can step into that self-care… and then know your worthiness… By the nature of you being here on this earth, you being a living breathing human, you are worthy, right… But that's… it takes… to get that concept to like, really… because we are so taught to earn, improve, and behave in a certain way in order to get that love from someone outside, right… because that's usually what we're looking for. We're looking for that from outside of us to tell us that... just, you know, you're muted. Okay, all right. I wasn't sure... So… and then forgiveness of all the things that we did do, didn't do, that we took on that, you know, weren't ours to take on… all of the like, the things that we sit in, hold on and beat ourselves up for, from the past… to be able to actually forgive ourselves and let that go… all of those things are components of loving yourself...

SAMIA: Yeah. Thank you for bringing that out. Because I agree with you… like, so often, there is a sense of confusion and conflating self-love with self-care… and just reducing self-love to those specific ways of self-care... I love that you recognize the self-forgiveness piece as one of the pillars of self-love. Oh, that's like… I know, like for me, that was like huge, like huge... Because I think like as a trauma survivor of child sexual abuse, like forgiving myself, was in some ways, one of the most difficult aspects of my healing process. It's like I was so afraid to… well, one of the reasons I was so afraid to share with anyone about the trauma I had experienced was because I thought no one would be able to love me anymore because it was just so horrendous, and it was all my fault. And if people found out, that'd be the end of anyone being able to love me… and you know… But actually, you know, when I did start sharing with people… it took me a long time… and like my first person I told… and then it took me 10 years to tell my second person, you know… But thankfully, at least… I mean, I'm very grateful… it doesn't always happen, so I'm very, very thankful… both the first person I told, reacted in a very positive, supportive way... And then the second person I told also reacted in a positive, supportive way. And then… the second person... well the first person was a psychologist, on my college campus. The second person was my sister. And then thankfully, after that, things got very easy... Much easier for me in terms of telling people because then I just asked my sister for help. And I was like, you have to help me tell the rest of our family because I can’t do it on my own. And my sister is this wonderful, brilliant... I mean, she's my relationship expert, you know… And so she helped me manage all of that in a way that I think actually like… for example, when I shared what I had to share with my parents… I mean, of course, you can imagine how shocked they were and so forth… but thanks to the guidance I got and the support I got from my sister… became so much easier… And for me, that was like so eye-opening that yes, that some of these worst fears that I had, were just, you know, in my imagination… And really, it wasn't even like my parents were like, oh, we forgive you… No… They were like, No, it's not your fault Samia, we see that. There wasn’t even… the issue of them forgiving me didn't even come up. And so it was like, oh my god, it's just me... I need… I needed to forgive myself.

ALLISON: Yeah, those are life-altering experiences, right. And all of the ways… the trauma was life-altering… and then holding on to it. And then, you know, even sharing and realizing that, yeah, how our fear, how our ego takes over, right... thinks it's keeping us safe, tricks us into thinking that we're safe-er in that place than being really vulnerable and open… And that the greatest gift you could give yourself, right, was sharing that and saying this is what I need. And I matter enough that I don't have to carry this anymore by myself...

SAMIA: Yeah.

ALLISON: Right... And it can feel super scary. And that's why I just thank God for your sister, right, that you had support. Because it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go through this life… like, to know your own needs does not mean you need to provide all of your own needs. Just know you need to know them so that you can ask for support and help… And that you were able to change your life is my hunch, right, from what you've shared… and being able to move into this space that you can talk about being a Happiness Expert...

SAMIA: That's right, that's right...

ALLISON: Right.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.

ALLISON: So you’re a beautiful example of what it looks like because there's levels of self-love. It's not either you love yourself or your don't...

SAMIA: Yes!

ALLISON: Right. There's a spectrum. And it may ebb and flow depending upon what's going on in our life. And you know, the new thing, right… like, I shouldn’t say the new thing… but maybe I'm in a really good place, and all of a sudden, I put on 30 pounds… all of it... And it might seem like I'm really hard on myself… and what's going wrong… And that just is challenging us to step into a new level of self-love because it might be self-acceptance, which is a part of self-worth. It might be I need to step into more self-care, and like, take more time for me, right… But those places are just challenging us. But we kind of go here and then we come back and then we move on… like, that's so normal...

SAMIA: Yeah.

ALLISON: …in that, you know, experience of self-love… It's not a one-and-done thing, like, Okay, I've got it figured out. And I'm done.

SAMIA: I love that point... I love that point. Because oh my gosh, it actually... yeah, so it's like… identify what you do love about yourself, and you can then sort of build on that. And so it's like, I'm sure… even like as I was sharing, even in my old days when I had lots of issues with myself, I knew there are some good things about me for sure. Like, I knew I was a good student. So I hope everyone can find something and identify something in themselves that they can be like… yeah, I know this is good about me. Then it's just… I love that, I love that... Okay, cool, cool… So any other tips or thoughts or ideas on how we can... or like lessons that you love to share with your people, and now with our audience, about how we can just love ourselves more and better...

ALLISON: I think from the place of loving yourself more and better, you know, we talked about the pillars…

SAMIA: Yeah.

ALLISON: And I think just as part of the self-forgiveness… and it's a flavor, it's not necessarily forgiveness per say… but I just… I think the opportunity to give ourselves grace, right, to not… we are so hard on ourselves… again from a place of trying to prove to be good enough, all of the things… And even on this journey of self-love, we can actually, like, backhandedly self-sabotage ourselves by then saying I'm not doing it well enough. I'm not doing it fast enough. I'm not doing it right. I screwed that up. I... Why can't I get this concept? It seems so, you know… self-trust... Why can't I trust myself in this way? I can see that I don't… why… so why can't I just do it? Right… instead of understanding that there's layers to it and that there's things behind it that, again, the intellect might be able to see… but the way that our heart and our subconscious behave and process that, it's not that easy. And it doesn't have to be this hard, arduous, like painful process. But it does need intention, and it needs attention... I'm not trying to scare people away from creating self-love. That yeah, it's sometimes… it can be triggering… because if we're wired in that good enough, proving, do-it-right, perfectionist kind of personality, then that's a tough thing to work on...

SAMIA: I hear you. And you know, because this show is about making change fun and easy... So I have to ask you... So I think you already gave us a bit of a clue by talking about giving ourselves grace, is there anything else that we can do to make this process more fun and easy...

ALLISON: I love the mantra… So this is maybe more of a mindset shift, which I know you're like, that's your expertise… but happy is the way, not the result... Like, again… and we always work… like, I have to do all the hard stuff first in life… it can be career, it can be taking care of the family… whatever it might be… our health goals... And so that at the end, then I can be happy as the result. And when I personally shifted to, what happens if I show up happy now? What's the experience of life I get to have the whole way through?...

SAMIA: Yes...

ALLISON: That is like… that mind-shift, mindset shift… has been so instrumental and impactful for me to actually live a happy life instead of always waiting or saying it's not enough, or let me just do this one more thing and then I can be happy… To actually like just decide… I get to be happy now, and I'm going to create fun in the things that I'm doing...

SAMIA: Yeah.

ALLISON: And that, you know, I get to… if I'm cleaning the house, I get to crank music up and, you know, and be silly and that gets to be as much fun as you can make cleaning the house. But that I get to choose joy in that moment rather than be upset and be like, well, I can't turn the music on or I can't dance or I can't have fun until the house is clean...

SAMIA: Yeah. Oh, I absolutely love that. And I'm so 100% with you on that... Oh...

ALLISON: Boom! Mic drop, all done...

SAMIA: Totally, totally... And now I'm like, oh gosh, Allison, you keep dropping all these amazing pearls of wisdom. And I want to keep talking with you. And we're running out of time for today... I think you'll just have to come back so we can keep talking...

ALLISON: I guess so. Oh, no. I would love to. I would absolutely love to continue this conversation...

SAMIA: Oh my gosh, so that'd be great. Let's do that. And so for right now, I'll go ahead and wrap up just for today with a reminder to everyone who is listening… please make sure you check our show notes because we will be dropping Allison's links in there so you can connect with her and get her help and support and make this process of loving yourself and having healthier, happier relationships more fun and easy...

ALLISON: Yay!

SAMIA: And until we connect next time, I just wish you lot's and lot's of peace and joy… :)