Finding Love After Heartbreak...

Finding Love After Heartbreak...
With Deepa Makhija & Samia Bano

Struggling to #FindLove after heartbreak?

Listen now to this interview with Deepa Makhija, #RelationshipCoach, to discover the path to healing from toxic relationships, breakups, and past traumas to #FindTrueLove and happiness!

ABOUT DEEPA:

Deepa specializes in Relationship Coaching wherein she helps women heal from their Past Toxic Relationships, Rebuild their Self-esteem, and Design their Best Lives through very powerful subconscious and manifestation methods so that they can attract and manifest a loving and respectful relationship in their lives.

Learn more and connect with Deepa now at: https://power-within.net/

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#findinglove #findingloveagain #findloveagain #loveafterheartbreak #relationshiptrauma #DatingSuccess #healthyrelationships #healthyrelationshipsmatter #healthyrelationshiptips #datingtips #datingtipsforwomen #toxicrelationships #toxicrelationshiprecovery #toxicrelationshipawareness

Here's the audio version of this episode:

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Full Video Transcript

SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry! It's so, so good to be with you again. And I know you'll be so happy you have joined us because we have a really amazing guest with us, and it's Deepa Makija. I'm so happy to have you with us, Deepa. Welcome…

DEEPA: Thank you so much, Samia. It's a pleasure, and it's going to be really a lot of fun, and I really appreciate you calling me on such a platform and talking about things. So thanks a lot for making me a part of such a platform.

SAMIA: Yes. No, no. I am so excited to be connecting with you, and I'm so excited for our conversation today. I mean, it can be a heavy subject for a lot of people. But, you know, we are here to learn from you how to make it a little bit easier, a little bit… maybe inject some fun into it. But before we get into that, will you please tell us more, Deepa, about who you are and what you do?

DEEPA: Yeah, of course. So, like you said, my name is Deepa Makhija, and I hail from India, and I am a Heartbreak Recovery Coach, which means that I help women to heal from toxic relationships, a breakup, and even from the past, which means even childhood traumas, because everything in our life is related… the way one is during childhood, that way they manifest relationships even during the adult lives. So that's my core work. But now I'm also venturing into a space where I'm helping women to find love, to find a healthy relationship after a breakup. So that's primarily my work. That's what I do. And it comes from my own story, like my own background, because I went through a trauma about five years back and was very difficult for me to come out of such a state. And so the deepest desire is basically coming from there… to help as many women as I can who have been in abusive relationships or who are going through abusive or toxic relationships.

SAMIA: Yes. I'm so glad that, you know, you are doing this work. It is so needed. It is so needed...There are so many people who are struggling in their relationships, and there is a toxic element to the relationships… And I realized in my work also that one of the huge reasons for why people stay so stuck in these toxic relationships is because oftentimes they don't even realize just what is toxic about the relationship. They don't recognize abuse for abuse, for example… like, you know, so unless you have some training or education or someone to help you and guide you in these matters, sometimes you can't even recognize the abusive patterns of behavior or what really makes a relationship toxic. So please tell us more… like, what are some of the big challenges that you find your clients and the people you help dealing with?

DEEPA: Yeah. So like you said, it's of course not recognizing the signs. Yeah, that's a big thing. Because let's talk about women. Because I serve women. Yes, it's happening to men also. But if we talk about women because I'm serving women, they are not able to recognize... And even if they recognize, they're not able to get out of the relationships because of different factors. Because we've been conditioned like that, because we want to stay in relationships, we want to give our best because of different reasons… they are not get able to get out of the relationship. So recognizing is, of course, a very, very important aspect of a relationship. Yeah. Because a person doesn't know what healthy behaviors are, they are just not aware of it. So they get a disillusioned by the fact that the other person is showing so much love. So usually what happens is that, you know, they face a lot of conflict inside. There's so much of conflict, so much of stress, so much of anxiety, so much of overwhelm… to the extent that they even resort to unwanted behaviors which are really not supposed to happen. They resort to drugs, they resort to alcohol and things like that. So the state becomes so bad. So a toxic relationship really leaves a lot of impact on a person's sense of self… a toxic or a narcissistic relationship. So, yes, recognizing is, of course, the first and the most important step to moving forward. They get disillusioned by what is shown to them because, of course, all the narcissistic partners or people who are abusive or toxic, they show a certain side of theirs which give an illusion that, yes, they are in love with their partners, but that is not true.

SAMIA: Right. Yes, that is an excellent point. It's, you know, such a common phenomenon in toxic relationships where, you know, there are times where you experience your partner as very loving, very caring, and the fact that you do experience these times with your partner, you know, becomes part of the trap in terms of what makes it so difficult for you to get out even after you have had many, many, many experiences of their behaving in abusive ways, and toxic ways also. So I know with you, you are an expert at helping people once they have managed to get themselves out of the relationship, once the breakup has already happened. And I mean, man, it can take people like, literally years sometimes to get to that point. And it's so, so challenging, for sure, once you find yourself in that space of just having broken up. What are some of the challenges that you see people facing in that breakup phase?

DEEPA: Firstly, a lot of cases that I see, they have gone through a lot of abuse in their childhood. They've gone through maybe sexual abuse. They've gone through maybe physical abuse. Maybe they've had toxic parents, narcissistic parents, or strict parents or toxic caregivers. So a lot of it stems from childhood. That is one aspect… which makes a lot of them attract or get into toxic relationships. Why? Because they are already having a very low sense of self. There's a lot of self doubt. There's a lot of… a need to give to others to prove that, yes, I am worthy. So their worthiness or their sense of self comes from the other one. So a lot of it stems from childhood. But when you ask me what are the things that one goes through, it's… majority of the times it is self-esteem, self-worth issues, doubting oneself because their partners have made them feel so bad about themselves because of gaslighting and because of their different behaviors, that a person stops trusting themselves. Trust issues. They stop trusting their own voice. A huge damage is caused from inside.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

DEEPA: I mean, a person's sense of self is broken. So that's like huge, even though you can't see it physically, but inside, it's a very… you know, it's a very deep wound. That's one thing I see… along with, of course, a lot of depression, stress, anxiety, trust issues, like I said… codependency issues, things like that. But this is something that is really, really major.

SAMIA: Yes. You know, I can testify to that from my personal experience also, both in terms of the work that I've done with my clients and what I've experienced myself as a survivor of abuse, you know… It's the lack of trust in yourself... because it's like you cannot trust any decisions that you make. You cannot trust that your judgment of the other people in your life are accurate anymore. You know, like, I remember so clearly thinking… you know, here's like, any time someone would show me love and I would be thinking… I don't know if I can trust that this is real or not because the person who abused me was somebody that I had known and loved and trusted, you know? And so the fact that I couldn't... I had failed to protect myself from that person, that I didn't recognize their ill intentions, until, you know, all that abuse and all that had happened… that really, that I was like… How can I trust that this person who is now showing me love and that I am feeling inclined towards, that this is also not a mistake like that. And so it just really, you end up self-sabotaging then the relationships, because with, if you are constantly doubting the other person, how can you have a healthy relationship with them, you know?

DEEPA: Absolutely. Absolutely. I totally agree with you. I mean, a lot of people are so scared. They are so scared to get into a relationship that they just close all the doors. They fail to see that there may be some opportunity lying ahead. So they fail to see all those things, and they close all the doors and they shut themselves and they become very fearful.

SAMIA: Yeah. So how do you even begin to help somebody in that situation, begin to step out of that kind of that fear, that lack of self trust?

DEEPA: So, like I said, it comes from... If it comes from childhood… Yeah… It's not only just about one relationship, it's also about the past. So I start with first helping them to manage a little bit of their stress and anxiety. It's not only just the sessions, it's also about an overall way of being… because we are looking at switching the mindset, switching the personality, because a lot of damage has been caused to the personality. So in order to do that, first I focus on really helping them resolve the past. Because if past is not resolved, then how is one expected to move forward? Our past can act like gold. If we learn from the past and we implement those learnings, we can for sure have healthy outcomes in relationships. So the work starts from there… really understanding what patterns are showing. What were the needs that were left unfulfilled when one was a child or even in a relationship? What led to the self sabotage? What led to one seeking validation from outside? So we do a lot of introspection when it comes to past, so we learn from the past. So about a month I work with them on just the past. Yeah, that's the beginning point.

SAMIA: Yeah. And it's very, very wise, I think… this approach that you have. Yes, yes. You know, because you just... I was, like, trying to think about, you know, like, when we were learning about people in abusive relationships… I actually went through a training where I was learning to become a crisis counselor for survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. And I actually successfully finished that training. And then I worked for four years on a hotline serving people in this community of domestic violence survivors and sexual assault survivors. And you're right, a huge, huge percentage of them have experienced some form of trauma in their past. And even the people who haven't experienced, like, some big trauma or some form of abuse in a direct way, nonetheless, they are usually struggling with some kind of self-esteem issues or, you know, like, people pleasing or, you know, these kinds of behaviors that we get taught and we learn them from when we are very young in most, most cases. And so it's like, you do need to retrain yourself to think in new ways, to develop new beliefs and so forth.

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah. So we really have got to unpeel all the layers, unpeel all the layers… help them manage their emotions, then how they believe about life, about love, then look at the mindset… all of that. A lot of work gets involved.

SAMIA: Yes. You know, like, for example, I was thinking about even for people who have not experienced any particular form of abuse in their life, but beliefs that they've been taught from childhood… Like, I know in our Indian culture, for example, I grew up… even my own mother would tell me things like, you know, in a marriage, or in a family, actually, in general, even if it's not as a wife, but whether it's as a daughter or sister, etcetera, that she, my mom would... even to this day, she says things like, yeah, it's the women who have to make the compromises, who have to make the adjustments if there's conflict happening or whatever, because, you know, you can't expect the men to do that, you know... And in a way, you know, she tries to put a positive twist on that by saying that it's because the women are more mature, we are more compassionate, we are more understanding, and the men are not as much having these qualities. And so we are the ones who have to take this responsibility of maintaining and creating peace in our homes, in our relationships. But I personally think that even though, you know, my mom tries to give it this positive twist …and there might be some truth to it …but it's nonetheless one of those things that we learn in our culture that can really end up harming us when it comes to being able to effectively recognize toxic people, abusive patterns of behavior and getting ourselves out of it, you know.

DEEPA: Absolutely. Yeah. So another thing that I would like to add here is it's not only just a few cultures, a few parts of the world where this is happening, but this is happening all across, which was such a big insight for me. I speak to women from all over the world… from US, from Europe to other countries, and it happens at any strata of the society. Any woman, if she's educated, highly educated, earning lots of money, very financially well established, at a very highest strata of the society, even she would have been, you know, going through such a horrible time. So…

SAMIA: Exactly.

DEEPA: It's pan across. I mean, it's just prevalent so much. It's so prevalent…

SAMIA: I agree with you, and thank you for bringing that up. You know, I mentioned my own examples because, you know, it is like mentioning my own examples… but you are so right that it is not restricted to any particular kind of person, any particular class of person or region, etcetera. It's just, you know, depending on your background and economic status, etcetera, it might show up in your life in somewhat different ways, but we are all affected by it.

DEEPA: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah…

SAMIA: So, you know, so... Okay, so with the self-trust issues that are oftentimes in the core, and you mentioned, you know, you start working with people by helping them heal the past aspect of things… Are there any other core challenges that you would like to highlight for us that we should be aware of?

DEEPA: The other challenge, of course, one has to learn from the past, but one also has to learn what toxic behaviors are. What are red flags? Like, for example, if we talk about dating… Okay, that's the next vertical, like I told you I'm building... So the dating scene, the dating pool is becoming really trash out there… which doesn't mean that they're not good men. Of course there are good people. But it's very important for one to recognize toxic signs… not only in a romantic relationship but even in other relationships. Because if one is in a toxic relationship, even if it's not a romance relationship, even then, that person can be equally damaged, and that will show up in all the areas of their lives, be it be their work, their career, their personal life. So it's very important to recognize those red flags, those toxic signs from anybody and say no or set clear boundaries…

SAMIA: Can you give me…

DEEPA: This is very important because…

SAMIA: Yeah.

DEEPA: …because I personally was not able to do it. I was very well educated. I had the best education from the best institutes in the country. But I fell into a toxic marriage, and I had no... I had no capability to say no to what was not serving me, to so much of abuse. I just could not stand up for myself because for me, that was the way it was, it should be in relationships. So building some awareness gathering some information, not all the information, is, I think, really a must.

SAMIA: Yeah. Can you give me an example of a kind of red flag behavior that you recognize now but you didn't in the past?

DEEPA: So there are many. One is love bombing… initial stages of a relationship, when a person is love bombing in showing intense kind of love, which is not really looking real, sharing too many gifts, taking out to expensive places. This is one of the red flags. But more evident signs are when a partner or when somebody is demeaning you… when they are not emotionally mature to have conversations with you, when they can't resolve conflicts. These things are not evident and not understood by people, and they accept all these things without realizing that they're damaging them somewhere. Some people, yes, they do realize, but some people don't. So these are some of the very, you know, those signs which really don't come out in the open, which are not called as abusive, right… Screaming, showing rage and anger… Those are some very evident signs. But this is something that one must be aware of. Someone feeling demeaned in the relationship, someone belittling you, someone not showing respect, not making you feel hurt, not showing enough support in your career, things like that. These are some of the signs which are also toxic, which really damage a person.

SAMIA: Yes. You know, you've just reminded me of this one Indian drama…

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: …we've been watching… and a particular scene in it because I was so happy to see this scene happen in the drama because, you know, a lot of times in these Indian dramas that I watch, they are showing so much abusive behavior, toxic behavior in the relationships. But a lot of times, they don't show anything that would actually help the audience raise their awareness of the fact that these are actually abusive, toxic behaviors. Because these behaviors are so normalized in our cultures. But in this case, one of the characters actually pointed out what the problem was. So what happens in this scene was… there is a man and his fiancé. The man is, you know, he's very manipulative, and he's manipulating his fiancé, like, you know, emotionally blackmailing her to do something that is actually illegal because, you know, she's a government officer, and he is trying to basically emotionally manipulate her to do something illegal for him. And at some point, you know, she tries to resist because she's like, no, no, you know, I don't want to do this, etcetera. And then he gets mad at her and makes various, you know, comments about, you don't love me. You don't trust me. How can you not trust me? Etcetera, etcetera… And anyway, after some time, she finally does what he wants, reluctantly. And then he turns on, you know, like a sort of sweet charm on her. And then he makes a comment to her, something along the lines of, okay, from here you don't worry. You know, a beautiful woman like you shouldn't be worrying about these things. From here, I will take care of everything… And this particular exchange, one of the other characters who's actually the heroine of the drama, she hears him making this comment and… And then she actually talks to this fiancé, the lady, the lady to whom this comment was made. Like, she, I mean, she doesn't do it in front of the man, but when they are alone together, the heroine, she's like… you know… she actually does it in a way where it's, like, very ingenious because, you know, she makes a comment to this other lady, something about, you know, how, like, when women are objectified, it's not an acceptable behavior. And she sort of gives an example of that kind of thing happening. And this other lady is like, you are absolutely right. You're absolutely right. That is so bad. And then, you know, the heroine says, but then did you realize when this happened to you and you weren't upset by it when it happened to you. You were smiling and happy when it happened to you… Like, what? When did it happen to me? What are you talking about? You know…

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Then the heroine was like, you know, when your fiancé said this to you…

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: You know, he was actually belittling you and objectifying you in this demeaning way and you didn't realize and recognize what he was doing. So, I was like, yes, thank you. Thank you for saying…

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're so right. And especially with platforms like these and with social media, we can spread as much awareness…

SAMIA: Yeah.

DEEPA: …as we can.

SAMIA: Yeah. It's, like, so tricky, you know, because as I was saying before, these behaviors are so normalized, unfortunately, in our culture, and that makes it so difficult to identify them.

DEEPA: Yeah, absolutely.

SAMIA: Okay. Okay. All right. So we have been talking a little bit about the challenges people can face. That's not all you help people with. You also have that other part, you know, where you are able to help people actually find love, get into more positive, healthy relationships. So for me, that's like, problem to solution.

Tell me more about the solution part…

DEEPA: Absolutely. So the solution lies in, firstly understanding yourself. Very simple. Very simple... I mean, I would say it's simple, but then it's not that simple.

Understanding yourself… what you want, what one wants from a relationship, building a real strong foundation… first is the foundation being very clear about one wants and then going out there in the dating pool. The dating world has become really trash and the dynamics of relationships are changing. But still, considering what's happening, there are people who have found love. There are people who have gone about with a lot of resilience and positivity to get what they want. So, yes, it is possible. So that's the positive side of things. The universe opens doors for sure. It opened doors for me. Why? Because I took a stand to make a change in my life. Had I been only in my negative states and not decided to come out of these states, I wouldn't have been here. So once one decides to move forward, then of course there are so many opportunities that the universe throws in, in front of a person. So, yes, there are a lot of positive sides also if one decides to move forward and get out of these states.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.

DEEPA: And having love or finding love or having a healthy relationship, I mean, what better thing than that? I truly believe that.

SAMIA: Yes. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, all of our life is about relationships, isn't it? Having healthy relationships is absolutely critical to our having a healthy, happy life.

DEEPA: Yeah, absolutely. It really adds in a lot of well being. It uplifts us. It really, you know, brings that... I mean, how do I say? It brings so much of fulfillment in one's life. So, yes, of course, one must look forward, not keep looking at the past. The past should not be the factor of one moving forward. It should just be something that we learn from. And yes, there are so many opportunities available. So many opportunities…

SAMIA: Yes. So you mentioned, you know, how important it is for someone to get to know themselves. Is there like any particular process or method that you recommend in that context? Or another way to think about… Or another question maybe, like what... When you think about getting to know yourself better, what are we actually talking about? What is it that I need to know about myself? Because, you know, like, I mean, theoretically everyone should know themselves.

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: What is it that we need to know about ourselves that most of us may be missing?

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah. That's an amazing question. That's such a great question. So, of course, consciously we cannot really know ourselves, right. It's difficult. Like you said, how do you know yourself? I mean, in a real sense… So I am a really favorite of values work. I do a lot of values work with my clients. So there we unpin all the layers and we take out what's really important to a person, also in a relationship. What's important to you, to one in a relationship? If that is clear, if your core values are clear… Like, for example, if commitment is important, if love is important, respect is important… If those are the three values that are the most important, then if I have a relationship which is not giving me that, then I'll say no to that relationship. So very clearly, I have some benchmark, you know, to make decisions.

SAMIA: Yes, yes…

DEEPA: So what's important to one? I mean, that's the question one needs to ask. What's important to one in a relationship…

SAMIA: Yeah. And it's such deep work, too, because, like, for example, when you mentioned qualities like commitment, love, respect in a relationship… I think everyone would agree that these are things that we want in our relationship. But to dig deeper, beyond the surface and get really clear on, well, what does love in a relationship mean? Like, what does it look like? …What does respect look like? What does commitment look like? Because, again, it's like, otherwise, you know, you end up in that same situation where you don't recognize a certain behavior as being toxic or abusive… because you can misinterpret somebody who is love bombing you as, oh, they're loving me. We have love in the relationship. But actually, it's not a healthy expression of love. It may not even be actual love. So to get really clear about what each of these values look like in action for you.

DEEPA: Yes, absolutely. Yeah... How is it that one can understand whether there's love in a relationship or not? So we really break that down. We really break that down into pieces and... Which gives a lot of awareness to people, you know, as to what they're looking for... Yeah. So that gives a sense of clarity to them. So values is something that's really, really important.

SAMIA: Yeah. I'm glad that you have this approach… again, I think it's so wise because, you know, sometimes I've seen these kinds of, like... I mean, again, sorry,

speaking from my experience…

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: You know, just again, in our desi community… and for those people who are unfamiliar with the word, desi refers to people of south Indian culture. I mean, not south Indian. South Asian, like south Asian…

DEEPA: Yeah. 

SAMIA: …Pakistan, Bangladesh, etcetera, that region of the world… So in our culture, oftentimes, you know, people are obviously very serious about the whole idea of marriage. And, you know, we have deep… like, entrenched systems, actually to evaluate who is suitable for marriage and who is not. But unfortunately, like, what I find is that a lot of times, they are very focused on superficial things in terms of, okay, when you think about what do you want in your partner… they're focusing on very superficial things, like, well, how much money does this person make? What do they look like? How tall are they? What’s the color of their skin, how fair or not, is their complexion? You know, are they, how much do they weigh?

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah…

SAMIA: These kinds of things where, you know, like, literally people are rejecting each other based on these kinds of very superficial criteria. But really, what does… What do those things really… I mean, how much do they really matter if all of these kinds of things are a perfect match, but your values don't match?

DEEPA: Yes, yeah. Values plus, yes, I come across this even with the women I speak to. So not only these cultures, but it also happens from all across the world. Whoever I meet, like women, they have this benchmark or this criteria that he should be tall, dark, handsome, he should have a lot of money and things like that. Whereas I always say that there are other things that you must look out for. What are his behaviors? Is he emotionally intelligent? Is he emotionally mature? Is he financially independent? Those are the genuine behaviors. Those are the real genuine behaviors that one must, must look out for. Even if the guy is a little short in height or a little fat, fine... If you can go with that, then yes. The thing is that you must look out for what's the core.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah because... Exactly… I mean, when we ourselves are subjected to those kinds of scrutiny, you know, of, well, how do... Like, you know, if someone is evaluating me, for example, for possible relationship, and if they're focusing on all of these, like, things about me where they're being very critical of how I look, etcetera, think about, well, I don't feel good when that happens, when someone does that to me. And so that also helped me when… When I realized that for myself, then it also helped me to, you know, make that commitment that, you know, I don't want to do that to someone else.

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's a very surface level approach. Like you said, it doesn't… It's not a... It's not going to build a solid relationship.

SAMIA: Yes, yes. I mean, there is definitely value to make to, you know, like, having a partner that you feel physically attracted to. So it's not that it's, like, unimportant or you should totally ignore that. Not at all. But it's question of you can't primarily… don't focus on that primarily… don't focus on that first, like, big. The bigger focus should be on the values.

DEEPA: Values, common interests, then shared goals, a vision of a relationship... So all that is really important. All of that… along with values all of these things also really play a very important role. I mean, am I able to enjoy some activities together with my partner/ Do we have a common vision of the relationship? What's the future vision like? If I want kids, does he also want kids? So things like that... So, of course, some work needs to be done, even on that front.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah…

DEEPA: Yeah. It's not only just about chemistry, because a lot of women I see, they base their decisions if they have a chemistry with somebody. But no… yes, chemistry is important, but these are the things that are really important.

SAMIA: Right. I think it's also, like, partly, again, comes down to what our beliefs are about what love is. You know, for example, that we have grown up... But, you know, again, I'm thinking of, you know, some movies and things in which now, you know, modern movies, they're starting to make critiques of how things traditionally were. Which movie was it? I can't remember the name… but they were... It was actually a cartoon movie, you know, one of these princess, prince type of thingies. And they were making actually fun of how, you know, you have all these portrayals, like, especially in, you know, these princess kind of movies where, you know, the princess is like, so much like focusing on finding the prince charming… and, you know, and usually it's like, oh, I met this prince… and you just have this very brief encounter and they've fallen in love.

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Well, you know, by that understanding of… And then, you know, those feelings based on that very brief interaction are driving your behavior and your pursuit from then on in terms of, like, you know, oh, I want this person. I must have this person… and all of that. But it's like, I mean, not to say that you can't feel attracted to someone at first sight or whatever… but is it really a good, strong foundation for a long-term, healthy relationship? But, you know, that is what is romanticized, and that is what is what is emphasized, that, you know, you feel that attraction for someone and then you just follow it and you just... and maybe not even think about other things.

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah, that's what… And a lot of times it… It may even lead to relationships that won't serve us. So, yes, that's a very, very important aspect.

SAMIA: So how do you suggest… like, is there, like, some kind of a balance to be achieved in this context somehow? Or is there some other way to think about, you know, how to consider all these different things? But, you know, what can that look like for somebody who is going through that, you know, phase in their life, looking for love and so forth…

DEEPA: Like we spoke about… Yes, foundation and clarity is important. Yeah. But what's also important is a proper mindset… you know, to go out there and be open to love. Because what happens is that because there's so much of scamming taking place, because there are people who are toxic, narcissistic, selfish, who are there for money… So that really lays a lot of impact on somebody who goes out there and looks for what they want. They get shattered and they take it on themselves. They face rejection issues and things like that. But when we are in a space where we are open to opportunities and open to more and more people and see that, yes, I will encounter different kinds of people, it does not necessarily mean that I am less worthy. If we stand in our power and we know what we want and we don't let those situations affect us… Yes, they affect us. We are human beings. But using some tools like mindfulness, you know, meditations, breathing, things like that… really being in one's power and making decisions from that place is going to help one get what they want. And plus, of course, I believe, a lot in manifestation…

SAMIA: Yes.

DEEPA: So it's somebody's energy, somebody who has really done enough work on themselves and energetically, they are in such a place where they attract… they are able to attract what they want. But yes, they have to go through the process. They have to go through that process of dating, meeting people and finding more about themselves. It's like a process to find about themselves. It's not that one day I'll go and, you know, make my profile and I'll find love. No, it's not going to happen like that. I mean, it's senseless, right... So it's going to take time. Relationships take time to build. It takes time to get to know a person. So I would say if one is really out there looking for love… Yes, give yourself a deadline that, yes, by this time I must be in a relationship. I must do this… have some goals. Otherwise we'll just do things for the sake of doing things. So have some goals, some mini goals. And always continue to keep meeting people without taking it on oneself… and learn more about, you know, if one goes out there. Yeah, they should learn more about themselves.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DEEPA: And sure there will be somebody who may be a connection to their partner or you never know. Yeah. So the idea is to just be as open and being as authentic, because I've seen a lot of people put… a lot of women, let's talk about women,...they talk, they put up a facade. Am I looking good? Am I not looking good? Am I looking pretty enough? Is my lipstick shade showing, suiting me or things like that, but it's fine. I mean, a gentleman or a genuine person will really not look at those traits. Yes, those traits are important …physically, how our bodies are, how fit we are. But being authentic, self, being oneself, is what is really important. That's where even values come in.

SAMIA: Yeah. You just reminded me of a scene…

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: ..from another show. This was actually a sitcom, so they were deliberately doing this to be funny. But there's this basically boyfriend-girlfriend situation where they were in a relatively new relationship. And for the first time, the two of them are alone and they start getting romantic. And then basically what happens is then the girl, one by one, you know, she starts to sort of take off things… like she has fake eyelashes, she has fake nails, like, extensions on her hair, this and that... The poor guy is like, oh, my God who is this person…

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah, I think there's a video or something. TikTok video or something.

Something like that on this subject. Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. ..Yeah,.

SAMIA: …sometimes we go too far…

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Like, you know. Oh, my gosh…

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah, that's what... Yeah, we just look at the superficial aspects, but again, being oneself, being close to who we are, like that… that's what is really important.

SAMIA: Yeah. Because, I mean, again, you know, you can be like, okay, I'm going to, like, really do all of this to make myself feel more confident.

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Then I look really good. But ultimately, if you're, you know, going to be in a serious, intimate relationship with this person, they're going to see the real you. And if they cannot accept you and love you as you really are without all of that makeup and all of that, then, I mean, you know, that's not a relationship that's going to work. So…

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So honesty is the bedrock, like, of any relationship. Being as authentic, being as honest, as transparent, as open, is really the key. Starting from day one. Yeah.

SAMIA: Yeah. So again, like, sort of thinking maybe, you know, from a values perspective about just how far you want to go in terms of presenting yourself in a way that, you know, you still feel comfortable and good and authentic and still, you know, putting your best, best foot forward and all of that.

DEEPA: Yeah, absolutely.

SAMIA: You know, there was another thing that you mentioned that I'd be curious to dig into a little deeper with you. So you mentioned, you know, the idea of setting some goals, setting some kind of like a deadline for yourself in terms of, you know, by this time I want to be in a relationship, etc... Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Because, you know, I know a lot of women who, for example, have had these goals in their mind that, you know, by this age I want to be married. And, you know, especially with a lot of women, I've heard them express concerns of being married by a certain age because then they're also thinking about, okay, you know, my biological clock is ticking and I want, yeah, if I am not married by this time, then, you know, I might be too old to have the children I want, etcetera, etcetera... So and then what I've seen in these kinds of situations is that they end up putting themselves under a lot of stress when it seems like they're not going to be able to meet that goal of having found someone by that deadline. So how do you sort of manage that?

DEEPA: So there are two aspects I think, to it. One is about beliefs. Like, I think you also laying a lot of emphasis on beliefs. Yeah. Though the biological clock is ticking, Yes... But I've seen women find love even at later stages of their life, in the fifties and the sixties. I mean, how does age play a role? If there is a match for somebody, then it's okay to get into a relationship, right. Even though, yes, that's, that's another factor. If somebody wants a children, if somebody wants to produce a child, that's a different factor. But age or other things should not be stopping one. So beliefs… some amount of beliefs. And as far as goals, like you said, are concerned… goals does not just mean having a deadline. It just means also taking some decisions while one is on a journey, on their dating journey. Like for example, I've seen a lot of women are in relationships which they don't want to be in. They… deep inside know that this is not something right for me. And so they fail to communicate that with their partners or with the people who they are dating. So it's very important for them to be very clear and say that, yes, by this time I should be taking such a decision. Yeah. For example, if somebody is not clear about giving commitment, I've seen, still if a woman is liking him, she will go on in a relationship with him without him being clear. But I insist that what is it like if it's not serving you, then have a deadline in place and say that, yes, I need to take a decision as far as this relationship is concerned. Am I okay to go ahead with this? If not, then what's my stand forward? Should I communicate that with him? So those decisions, you know, not perpetually go on giving too much in one relationship which is really not serving a person. Yes. The big goal has to be there. That's just a framework that we have… that by this time, I want to be in a relationship. Why? Because it will also help me to move forward and do things that I may not do otherwise. For example, join social events, for example, go to singles club... So it's more of a numbers game also. So a framework.. and also to really move forward towards having that goal, towards achieving that goal, yes. Otherwise, I've seen women, they continuously keep dating people who just don't serve them.

SAMIA: Right.

DEEPA: Because of factors we've spoken about. So even there they are in relationships which keep wasting their time. They waste so much of time. And we don't have so much of time.

SAMIA: Right. Yes... Okay,  okay. So these goals, the way you are thinking about them, it's really more from a perspective of having the clarity of what you're looking for. I hear you… and I think that's, you know, part of the challenge of, you know, the transition that our societies have been going through in terms of, you know… like, traditionally, people didn't really date in our Indian culture. Like, it was all about, okay, the only reason, you know, you would meet a man, for example, would be if there was talk of marriage going on. But now because as things are changing, this is a sort of, in some ways, a newer challenge that we are having to deal with, where people have a certain willingness to be in a relationship and leave it open-ended. But really, you cannot leave it open-ended. 

DEEPA: Absolutely. You need to have a closure. Right?

SAMIA: Yes.

DEEPA: ...I mean, if the person is just there for a physical piece, if the other person just wants, you know, just a very casual relationship, then what sense does it make to even spend one day with that person if one wants a committed relationship? So that's what I mean, that in order to move forward, we have to take the right decisions at the right time and not go about wasting our time in things that are not serving us. So if we have those goals, if we have a benchmark, we have a framework, yes, we can achieve our goals. We can…

SAMIA: Right.

DEEPA: …move forward.

SAMIA: Yeah, and it sort of also goes back to, you know, like sometimes... Oh, gosh, like, because, I mean, again, I guess... You know, there is this conflict that, you know, in talking to, for example, many of my girlfriends who have found themselves in this situation of, on the one hand, they want to get married, but it's not happening for them, but they are actually in relationships… And it's sort of like, you know, they say… like, one of my girlfriends that I was talking to, she had been, at that point in time, in a steady relationship with one, one person for, like, eight years, and he had still not proposed to her. And she was really wanting... She was like, I want to get married already. And I was like, from my perspective, I was like, why don't you just propose to him and then see what happens?

DEEPA: Yeah. Absolutely.

SAMIA: For some reason, you know, like culturally or whatever, like, she thought that was not acceptable. And she was like, he's such a good guy. We have such a good thing going. I don't want to ruin it, but I do want to get married. So, yeah, you know, he's not proposing to me, but, you know, he is a good guy, so I don't want to break with him. So, you know, she was just very feeling caught up in this bad situation or dilemma.

DEEPA: Yeah, yeah. So this is what even I witnessed. I mean, a lot of people do get caught up in such situations where both the partners are not clear on what they want and they're not on the same page, basically. Yeah. So a lot of time goes in that.

SAMIA: Yeah. And it's like the, you know, part of the pressure that I think she was putting on herself, or, I don't know if it was pressure, but pressure is not the right word… but, you know, like, where she kept thinking that she needed to stay flexible and that by demanding marriage that, you know, that she was somehow acting in a way that was…

DEEPA: …needy.

SAMIA: Yes. Or something, you know, that she considered inappropriate… because she kept… She would keep saying, but he is a good guy. He does treat me well. And it's just this thing that I want him... I want us to be officially married and he won’t propose to me…

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: So it seems like, you know, there are some beliefs… like, I mean, it seems like in this kind of a situation, it's like she herself had conflicting beliefs…

DEEPA: Yes.

SAMIA: …about, you know, like, or maybe conflicting beliefs, conflicting values, conflicting wants... And so how would you suggest somebody resolve this kind of... If you yourself are confused or conflicted about what you want, really, really want or what's more important for you, how do you go about resolving that sense of confusion or conflict?

DEEPA: ...about what one wants or about..?

SAMIA: Yes. So, like, in this situation that we have been… like, scenario where you want to get married, but you also have these beliefs about, you know, like, I can't be the one to propose to him… Or if I demand marriage from him then I'm somehow behaving inappropriately… So then, you know, these conflicting beliefs that are preventing you from moving ahead, how do you resolve things for yourself in this situation?

DEEPA: Of course, a lot of things that we've spoken about… values and understanding yourself, getting clear on the future vision of the relationship moving forward. But it's also got to do with some amount of confidence, self confidence… which, again, is related to changing your beliefs, right. Deep inside, there are very subconscious beliefs which drive our behaviors. Very subconsciously, we get driven by the fact that, oh, I can't speak up because I'm a woman, I can't propose. Can we just, you know, debunk those beliefs and say that, so what? It's a sign of confidence... If I want clarity from that person, why can't I just communicate that with him, even if I'm a woman? So that's what I suggest... If somebody is just there and not clear about what they want, then there's no harm in communicating. Yeah. And also, there's also no harm in showing a sign of confidence in proposing or reaching out. That's a display of confidence. We are not being needy or clingy or doing anything wrong, right. It's just that I want a marriage or I want a committed relationship. Therefore, I'm asking you. So it's a sign of confidence. A lot of women don't do that. I've seen it…

SAMIA: Yeah.

DEEPA: ...because of fear of rejection or because of the conditioning or because of the beliefs. But why can't we just display some confidence and take charge of our lives and say that this is an important area of my life and I'm the one who's going to make decisions…

SAMIA: Yes. Yes. I agree with you. I mean, there's so much that is changing and that we are changing. Like, we have already accepted so many changes. Like we were saying, traditionally, you wouldn't even find this kind, like, dating scenario acceptable. But we have adapted ourselves to accept, okay, I'm willing to date. So why not make… also open ourselves to these other changes where say, okay, you know what? I'm going to empower myself to speak up for myself, to propose if I, you know, feel like this is the time for us to get married and he's not proposing…

DEEPA: Yeah... Yeah. I mean, again, why to just waste time? Time is precious, right? Especially after a breakup or a divorce. I mean, already a woman is crossed 30, 40 years of age. After that, we can't afford to waste time. So it's important to be aware of that and to be very mindful of what decisions one is taking. Again, that comes from a solid foundation.

SAMIA: That's a great point.

DEEPA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Deepa, you keep bringing up so much…

DEEPA: Yeah…

SAMIA: …amazing insight.

DEEPA: So nice talking to you. Yeah.

SAMIA: Oh, gosh. I think we need to wrap up for now, but I hope you'll come back and then we can keep talking…

DEEPA: Of course. Totally. Absolutely. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Pleasure talking to and listening to all your experiences also.

SAMIA: Thank you so much for sharing all that. Do you have any last thoughts or words you'd like to share? 

DEEPA: Just one thing. That there is a way out of toxic relationships. There is for sure a way out. And one must leave that situation or do something about it if it's highly abusive or toxic, and not waste their lives in the such a relationship. Because it's a huge damage that is caused to a person. So there is a way out, to move forward, which a lot of people don't know. That's the only message that I want to give to people... 

SAMIA: Thank you for that. And I'm 100% in support of that message. And for my last reminder to our audience, I'll just say, please make sure you check the show notes because we'll be dropping Deepa's links in the show notes. So you can connect with her and continue to learn with her and get more help and support from her whenever you are ready. So until we connect next time, I wish you lots and lots of peace… :)

DEEPA: Thank you so much... Thank you so much. I really appreciate you and I love talking to you and I look forward to coming back. :)