Blog: Make Change Fun And Easy
First Steps Toward Addiction Recovery...
With Redina Adams & Samia Bano
#addictionisreal and affects nearly everyone in some way! Plus, addiction is a spectrum and even "small" addictions can impact life and require mindful attention!
So don't delay, listen now to this interview with Redina J Adams, Drug and #AlcoholAddiction Counselor and an Associate Marriage Therapist, to understand the diverse forms of addiction—shopping, food, gaming, and more. Learn how you can #EndTheStigma and take the first steps towards #addictionrecovery or help your loved ones with it. The role of family, friends, and professional support in overcoming #addiction and fostering a #communityofhealing, empathy, and #CommunityOfCare is critical.
Learn more and connect with Redina at: https://www.facebook.com/redinaw1
To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ
#addictionrecovery #addictionawareness #addictionisadisease #HealingJourney #RecoveryIsPossible #BreakingFree #MentalHealthMatters #ResilienceInRecovery #HealingFromWithin #EmpathyOverJudgment #SupportIsKey #CompassionInRecovery #HopeAndHealing #MindfulnessInRecovery #EmpowerYourRecovery #drugaddictionawareness #alcoholaddictionrecovery
Here's the audio version of this episode:
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Full Video Transcript
SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry! It's really, really good to be with you again. And I know you will be very glad you have joined us today because we have a very special guest with us, and it's Redina Adams, who is a Drug and Alcohol Addiction Counselor. Welcome, Redina…
REDINA: Hi. Hi. Thank you. Thank you. Yes.
SAMIA: Redina, please tell us more about who you are and what you do.
REDINA: I am also a Associate Marriage and Family Therapist. So I'm pursuing my licensing to become an actual licensed marriage and family therapist and that have a dual. A dual, I guess you want to call career, because I also have a certificate in drug, alcohol counselor. I've been doing drug and alcohol for about seven years or so... My therapist, I've been doing for about three years now. I have, I raised three young men. They're young men now. They're now 22, 21 and 18. And I had a good time raising them. I did. I kind of miss them being younger because they're my great nephews and I got them at 5, 8, and 9. And so I tried to do all the parenting things because I knew the day was going to come. But some days I still miss them. I miss those days sometimes. Yes.
SAMIA: I hear you. They grow up so fast.
REDINA: Yes, yes. You be, wait... You be like, oh, I can't wait till they get 18, 19... And then when they get 18, 19, they become independent. You miss those small moments that you guys shared. Yes.
SAMIA: Indeed. I have nieces and nephews and, you know, I can... It feels like it was just yesterday when there were tiny little babies. And then I have a lot of memories of, like, playing with them, all kinds of games when they were like around four or five, six years old. And, you know, now they're. They've just turned 11 and 12 and they're starting to, you know, get into that phase where, I mean, they're not quite teenagers, but they're definitely starting to develop that sense of independence. And it's just very different interacting with them. They're actually starting to have mental health challenges that I'm like, "Oh, no". And, you know, just struggles with school and friends and, you know, when they were much younger and they would come over to my place, you would find any random thing and figure out a way to play with it, you know, and now it's very much like, no, I have my tablet and I want my games on it. So…
REDINA: Yes, yes. That has... Social media has taken over even a lot of family time. I noticed that. Yes.
SAMIA: It's interesting. Just this past visit that I had with my most recent visit that I had with my niece, I had to literally drag her out with me for a walk because I was, you know, less screen time. Let's go walking in the neighborhood. And we made... We walked for maybe 10 minutes and she was like, can we go back now? Yeah.
REDINA: So she can get back on that phone, huh?
SAMIA: Yes. But interestingly, even once we got back and she definitely wanted to get back to playing her game, but then she had the idea. She was like, can I have your phone? And I was like, okay, what to do with it? And she went ahead and downloaded the same game on my phone because it's like one of those where you can... It's like you're playing it live with other people. And so then she made a profile for me and she was like, play with me... I was like, okay, we're going to be sitting next to each other in the same room, but instead of like direct engagement, we are going to be playing through the, like, engaging with each other through the game.
REDINA: Yes, yes, yes. People, I've gone to restaurants and people on the same table, they're texting each other. Like you sitting right there. I mean, you know you're texting... Yes, yes. To me, it's so impersonal. It takes away from the closeness that talking gives us that intimacy. Because you can't tell how a person really feel when they're texting you.
SAMIA: That's really true with texting. In the context of when we were trying to play the game together online, it was interesting because. Because we were literally sitting right next to each other on the sofa and she actually had to be coaching me because I never played the game. And I was like, wait, how do I make myself move? Etc... So in some ways, it was a nice bonding experience. But I can imagine that, you know, if you weren't in the same room together and we were like, just focusing on the game without her having to coach me and things like that, it would have been substantially different. And I understand that a lot of kids now, this is their norm, that this is how they engage with each other is like, everyone needs their own device. Like you're not playing all even on the same device anymore. I remember there were games when I was my niece's age, like Mario Kart or whatever, and, you know, like, everyone was on the same screen and you might have different... What do you call them? The things…
REDINA: A joysticks…
SAMIA: ..joysticks, you know, but you were all in the same room, you were all on the same TV screen and there was like one game that was going on, but now everyone literally needs their own device. Like you need your own phone or your own tablet or whatever, and then everyone's playing on their own thing. And so then you actually don't need to be in the same room either. And most of the time, apparently, these kids are actually in their own homes in their separate spaces and connecting with each other remotely. And while they're able to have a certain amount of interaction in the context of these online games, it is limited. And so it is having an impact in terms of their social skills.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: And what they are and aren't able to learn in, in terms of social interactions through this kind of play time. And so that also becomes a part of the like, mental health challenges that they end up having.
REDINA: Yes, yes, it really does affect the whole cognitive of what we think, because the game that they're playing, a lot of them, it's not educational, it's more... Some of them are violent games. So when they're interacting with someone, even via the game, they're using foul language, they are fessing, they're being negative. And there is no, no, when I say socialization skills. There's no positive socialization skills. No one's not encouraging other to do better. No one's not trying to coach anyone. It's like if you don't know what you're doing, don't play. And then there's a lot of, like I said, bickering back and forth. And people have hurt their family members over the game because they were so angry. To where it was a story that young, one young man actually stabbed his brother because his brother had won. So it's getting to the point that the violence is carrying into the mind of individuals and causing them to react…
SAMIA: Right.
REDINA: ..in a violent manner.
SAMIA: Right. I mean, we talk about, you know, how we are in many ways very much a reflection of people that we spend the most time with. And if you are spending most of your time with or on is, you know, this online sort of gaming environment context. And, you know, so the time you're spending is with these other virtual personas, you know, I mean, for sure, then that has some impact on…
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: Or on your perceptions, your way of thinking about who you're interacting with, how you're interacting with them, and so on and so forth.
REDINA: Yes, it does. It is very impactable at this time. Yes. Impact a lot of households, a lot of young people, a lot of older people. Yes.
SAMIA: Do you? Because I know that you know your area of specialization, like you mentioned, in the last seven years or so you've been doing a lot of drug and alcohol addiction counseling. Like what are like some of the meant, like what are some of the challenges that people are dealing with that lead them to this kind of addiction?
REDINA: It just varies. But a lot of individuals, they have what they call co occurring, they have a mental illness which contributes to the drug addiction. And what's happening is that people don't want to take their medication. It's a stigma in communities about taking medication. Certain cultural backgrounds feel like if you take medication you're weak. Certain spiritual backgrounds feel like you have no faith. So it's such a stigma that some, they're trying to find some way of, to cope, cope with trauma they've experienced, cope with depression that they have, cope with being a bipolar schizophrenic, just trying to find a way to cope... And so they leaning towards drugs to cope with an issue that medication really is needed for. I don't say everybody, but I said a good percentage of people that have drug and alcohol problems also have some type of mental illness.
SAMIA: Yeah, you know, we, we were talking about kids and games and you know, and actually that was part of like making me think of the idea of addiction because you know, when, when people have something like drug or alcohol addiction, people sort of in the wider culture recognize okay, that's a very serious issue. And you know, they have some sense of understanding how negatively it can impact someone's life, how negatively it can the lives of the friends and family of the person concerned. But you know, there are so many other things that people that we get addicted to, that's true. They're not recognized as addictions and think sometimes things like, you know, like we can get addicted to, you know, for example, gaming or you know, in my case, I have actually had this experience where like I got addicted to gaming and not like these fancy games. At the time when I faced my challenge, I was still a teenager back in Pakistan and this was like in the middle to late 90s and we had a very, very basic computer, didn't have any fancy games on it. The one game that it did have on it was called Tetris. And it's like this game where you know, you have blocks are falling and you have to arrange them to, they're different shapes and you have to arrange them to fit in with each other and form rows without any gaps. And, you know, because the blocks are falling, there's sort of like a time element where if you don't get it done by a certain time, the blocks pile up and gaps. There are gaps in the thingy and it just, you know, then you die. So just the game ends. So it's like... There's like a certain, like, time pressure that you're dealing with, and you have to focus to, like, you know, and pay attention to what block is coming where, and so on, so forth. And I just got so into it. Like, I would be spending hours and hours and hours a day just playing this one game. I didn't even have variation. Like, I didn't have other games that I was also playing. It was it. This was it. It was like hypnotic in its power to keep me sitting there. And, you know, just. I used to use at that time, I used a keyboard, the JKL keys, to move the blocks as they fell sideways and down kind of a thing... And so just my three fingers and me staring at the screen where hours and hours, you know…
REDINA: Yes, yes. Because there are various addictions. That's... There's shopping addiction, shoe addiction. There's... There's sex addiction. There is... So there is so many addictions that lead into unhealthy habits.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: Okay. So my... The addictions happen that if I was a shopping addict versus someone on drugs, it's no different. But society still puts them in different categories.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: And, anything addiction is destructive to you because it can destroy your finances, it can destroy your family life, they can destroy your future. You have to hide and lie on both ends of this, on the spectrum. And so the thing in mental health is identifying where those challenges are and processing them and then finding another way to react. So, for example, if I have a shoe addiction or I have a shopping addiction. Okay. I know that the Internet, we get shop online a lot. So I have to get either find a way not to look at the shoes that's online or the clothes I have to stay off of online for a while. But because I might say, oh, that's not hurting nobody. I'm just buying clothes. I'm just buying shoes. I'm just doing whatever versus somebody that's using drugs or they. But it really is hurting somebody because financially, if you look at your credit card statement or you look at your finances every month.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And you see where you are being... Where is where you are overindulging.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: It's an addiction. It's hurting someone. And so I think we have to stop stereotyping people according to their addiction.
REDINA: You got a bad addiction, you got a good addiction. There's no good or bad addiction... It's just addiction with bad results or negative consequences. Because it's going to take over you eventually. You have sex addiction where you use, you, you want to have sex not because you love the person, because you're trying to feel a boy, you're trying to go, you're going through whatever you've gone through, might be molested. So now you feel like you want to be in control. So those are areas that you have to really be truthful with yourself. And like I said, we can't just say one is bad because all of them have a negative consequences that can be lasting.
SAMIA: Yes, exactly, exactly. Like I remember, I mean I never got physically violent, but I definitely felt upset with my family. Like my mom when she tried to pull me away and like, come eat, come out, we are going out. And I, I was like, "No, I don't want to". And I would get upset and I would like resist and all I wanted to do was like, stay home and stay in front of my computer and keep playing my game. It was that and then, I don't know... But my, the before, actually it was interesting because before I got into, into this gaming addiction, I had another, I mean, I don't like to think of it as an addiction, but again, it's like more of a, I guess social thing where it's more considered acceptable. But I used to always have my nose in a book and like constantly, like I would have my nose in a book and I didn't want to let go. I didn't, you know, again, I was avoiding spending time with my family and missing meals, etc, because I was too busy reading and you know, like, I can now look back at all of that and I can clearly see that I was a traumatized child and I was, you know, just trying to escape, you know, my sense of trauma. Because I didn't know how to cope with my emotions.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: So for me, anything that just kept me from having to think about my own negative thoughts that, you know, were prone to keep going in my mind or feeling the bad feelings that I didn't want to feel, you know. So I was looking for a race to escape and like my escape, you know, you could, like now I think about it and I was like, well, you know, at one level it was like, yeah, okay, I didn't fall into drugs or I didn't, you know, alcohol. So in some ways it was maybe a little bit better in terms of like, I mean, it... I mean, with drugs and alcohol, I mean, I don't know, it's like there's added impacts on your body and so forth and so... But yeah, it's still not like, it's still not okay. You know, and we're still trying to escape something because. Yeah, yeah…
REDINA: And that's how it is. That's why people feel like drugs is so, like the worst addiction. But it's not... Because every addiction has a negative consequence.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: So it may not impact your body, but it's impacting, say, your finances or it's impacting your family life or your marriage.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And that's still being destroyed. People who work at workaholics, they're never home with their family. They lose precious time with their children. They cause a rift with relationships with their children because a child is saying, you're never there... Then if you are trying to escape reality with some even like the reading, you're living inside of what you're reading.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: You know, most people escape through romance, knowledge, novels or something positive. And they're living their life based on that. And what happens is you begin to actually live that. Try to live that life that you're reading.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: The Brady Bunch. Everybody wants to be like the Brady Bunch... You know, if you come from a dysfunctional family that wasn't close so you try to soap operas, now they got hip hop reality shows. People are trying to live through them. They're trying to imitate what they see. That's still a negative consequence because it's not really who you are as a person.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: ..you're somebody else. And you, you're someone else. That's really not who they are because they're going on a script. If you're on drugs, you're going on why the drugs is leading you. You'll be alcohol, you're going on the effects of the alcohol that it has for you to be sociable. So some people, they drink so they can be social butterflies.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Because if they're not drinking, they're shy.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: So now you're still not being yourself because you need something to cause you to come out. And it's that it's long term effective. Some addictions can be quick, negative. Some can be long in the long run.
SAMIA: Yes, that's right. That's right. And so, you know, what do we do? Like, if we, you know, I honestly believe that pretty much every one of us has some kind of an addiction or other that we have experienced in our life or they. That we may be experiencing in our life right now. So one thing obviously is to recognize what our particular addiction is. Because a lot of times we don't... As you were saying, because society has different labels for things. We don't always recognize that the problem that we have or the thing that the behavior that's causing a lot of problems in our lives is actually a form of addiction.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: That awareness. But once we have an awareness... Or actually, how do we.. I mean, do you find that awareness, gaining the awareness that we actually have a problem in terms of addiction? Is that even a problem? Do people…
REDINA: Yes, because you have to confess. If you look at even the 12 step, it says acknowledge. Until you acknowledge that I have a problem, you're living a lie.
And when you say, oh, I don't really have to do this, or I can slow down or, okay, I'm gonna do it just a little bit here, you're lying to yourself. Because to see myself with an addiction in my mind, possibly it's another way of seeing myself as a failure. Because now I've allowed something else to control me.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: But awareness and confession is really a healing and doesn't mean that you are a failure. It just means that you have an issue that's real, that needs to be addressed like anybody else have an issue. It doesn't set you apart.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And so confessing, acknowledging, being aware is the first step. But the willingness to be aware and the willingness to confess and the willingness to acknowledge it is really the first step.
SAMIA: Yeah. So how do we cultivate that willingness?
REDINA: By encouraging... By accepting people where they are and encouraging them where they want to go. You know, people's not going to change when you want them to change. It may take some people five years, may take you some people one day. You can't change them. You have to accept where they are. Now, you don't have to allow them to make you feel guilty. And you can't enable them. So we got to stop enabling people that have addictions. Stop enabling them, stop trying to rescue them. Some people need to fall... They always say, when you fall, you look up. When you fall flat, you gotta look up to see there's something greater. And so, like, even in 12 steps, it says acknowledging a God of that choice that's greater than you. And so there's 12 different steps in each step. But the first one is accepting, acknowledging that. That you have a problem and that there is a greater entity. Like me, I'm a Christian. For you, it's you're a Muslim. So whatever, some people use a doorknob. Whatever they say, whatever.. .you need to acknowledge and realize there is greater. There is someone greater than you that can help you.
SAMIA: Yeah, just something like, it could even be that, you know, your family or your community. So something that you recognize as, yeah, I'm part of this greater whole and I can ask for help and receive help.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: From, you know, whether it's my family or my friends or my larger community, etc. So it's like, not. I'm not alone and I don't have to do this alone. And it would actually be really difficult, maybe even impossible to do it all by myself. And so it's actually really important to try and connect and ask for help and seek some support.
REDINA: Yes. Like, people don't know that AA was really a spiritual component. I think that spirituality is one of the most main ingredients because it is allowing some who you acknowledge as your God, that you realize that there's a higher, greater, someone that's more stronger, that can help us get through it. And I like what you said. The family comes together... But just some people have messed up with their families and their communities.
SAMIA: Yeah. Yes, you know, I think that is where the spiritual sense of connection is perhaps oftentimes really needed. Because, you know, for people who are not spiritually connected, who don't have a spiritual faith or tradition that they associate with, you know, and you're like, okay, well, where can you go for help and support? It's like, okay, family, community, other people, basically... You know, a lot of times that's what it comes down to. But people are not perfect. They're inconsistent. And oftentimes, even when they have good intentions, they don't know how to help you.
REDINA: Right, right.
SAMIA: Right? And so this is like a problem that I experienced. For example, I... The big trauma that I suffered as a child was child sexual abuse. And for a good two decades, I didn't tell anyone about what I had experienced. And so I was struggling on my own to figure it out. And one of the, you know, things that I realize and recognize now is my... I was surrounded by a very loving family, very loving. Like my mom, my dad, my brother, and sister. I know they would die for me, literally die for me, if that is what was needed for them to protect me and save me. But number one, I still got sexually abused even though they were there and they didn't know that it happened. But then they also failed to recognize the signs of my being traumatized, of my potentially having been abused, you know, and stuff, because they themselves didn't have the knowledge and the education to see the change in my behavior and think, oh, our child could have, like, in the context of my parents, for them to think, oh, could something like this have happened to my child... Why has her behavior changed so much? Why, you know, is she doing this and that she never used to do before? And so even though they were there and they were clearly like my mom, you know, she would, she even to this day, she remarks on, like, how at one point I used to be a very talkative child. And, you know, I was... I listened to everything that she said and I did, you know, I would oftentimes stick her very literally in terms of being how obedient I was and so forth. And then she was like, and then you just stopped listening to me. And then you, you don't talk to me and you didn't talk to me anymore. You didn't share anything, what was going on with you? And, you know, and so she clearly saw that something changed in me. But, and she tried to... She was constantly trying to reach out to me and get me to speak up in various ways in terms of, like, how are you feeling? What's going on? But I couldn't... I couldn't speak up. And it never... You know, and I think, like, part of it, like, I wonder if my mom had some education about child abuse and, you know, how it can impact the child. If she had recognized the signs and then she had gotten more specific information and education about how to help a child who had experienced that kind of specific trauma, maybe she could have helped me in other ways and we could have seen some different outcomes than we saw in my case, you know. But the fact that she didn't know any better, you know, our situation evolved as it did. So...
REDINA: It's... I think it's the secrets that destroys the family. Like she was doing what she knew to do. But if, and I tell anybody even once listen to this recording, if you are abused or you have been abused, you need to speak out. You can't be afraid to say such and such has bothered me, uncle, brother, sister, brother, whoever it is, and you don't listen to their threats, their manipulation, their lives, no one's not going to believe you…
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: That's not true... And so when we're told that are when we are even raped, like I was when I was 18. The shame. No one's going to believe me. And it causes that the victim not to speak out. Speak out, that's the worst thing you can do, is hold it in because it's hurting you on the inside. And so if whoever's listening, if your parents or if so, your close friend, you need to tell someone, you really need to tell someone about that person, because it will come back to haunt you. Rather, in relationships, friendships, even your social life, it will come back to haunt you.
SAMIA: Yeah. And as you were mentioning earlier, Adina, a lot of times people who do end up with various kinds of addictions, it's that they have experienced some kind of trauma that they're trying to cope with and escape from. And so even when we're talking about addictions to understand that connection, that when you keep it inside, you don't seek support, you don't seek help, if you like. For a long time, I was in denial that there was even anything wrong. I was totally in denial and suppression mode for so many years. And, you know, I will say that when. When it comes to speaking up and speaking out, I agree with, you know, it is extremely important that we do so, and it can take us the time it takes us to actually get to the point where we are able to do it. Like, for me, I know that one of the reasons it took me so long is because as what I experienced as a child, I was even younger than 8 years old, and I didn't even have the language to be able to say, this is what happened to me. I had no idea how to comprehend, think about what had happened, happened to me. I just knew how I felt, and I couldn't deal with those feelings. And so the best my brain could do was to go into denial and suppression until, you know, I was like a teenager. I was like almost 14, maybe almost 15 years old when I first learned about child sexual abuse as thing. And like, by reading a magazine article then I was like, oh, I think this is what happened to me. And so then finally I had some language. I had some... And a word that I was like, this is what happened to me. I think... I think this is what happened to me. And it still took me like a few years to actually say it out loud. Because, like, you... The other thing that we keep that you mentioned, Redina, is, you know, like, people, you are so afraid of being shamed and blamed and not being believed. And that feeling doesn't come out of nowhere. You know, it's like people around you, society around you, the movies you watch, the TV you watch, etc. It gives you these messages.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: You know, and so you're like, "Oh, no. Oh, no, that you know, this is. This is how I'm also going to be responded to because this is how I see other people responding to other people".
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: So it…
REDINA: And that is so true.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And that's why it's good when you have a child to always point to certain parts of the body and let them know if anyone touches you here, there. That's a no, no... You know, so that would be your language, you know, no... Or mommy, daddy send such a touch. You know, some type of way. And so I've always taught my great nieces and nephews and my nieces and them, is that when someone touches you in these areas, that's a no, no. And it's okay to tell. You have permission to tell.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: We need to give our children permission to openly tell. And when they do believe them.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: Not say, oh, that's just such and such, or we not going to tell nobody. Shhh... No. Give them permission to tell and then acknowledge that what they're saying is true and let them see you take actions against the perpetrator so they can feel safe.
SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. I see a lot of not only, like, people not taking action against the perpetrator, but actually, or/but like, it's really horrible to be told, don't talk about this. I had that happen to me when I finally came out and I started sharing, like, one of the first reactions I got. Not necessarily because when I started talking, I was ready to, like, go like, public, you know, and talk to anyone. And just because I was like, you know, one of the reasons why child sexual abuse exists is because of the silence, because people don't talk. And so I actually wanted to talk about it in a very public way. Not like talking about graphic details and so forth, but, you know, from an educational perspective. And in that context, you know, I realized that, you know, there's something, you know, so some of the reaction that I was getting from my family, including extended family members, was, well, why... Sure, you can educate people about these issues, but why do you have to say that you got sexually abused, that you are a survivor yourself. Like, just educate people. I'm like, no, that's not good enough, you know, because again, you have that mindset of hiding, of having to be silent. And there's something that is very, like, for your mental health that's very, very bad for your mental health. I lived with the negative impact of feeling silenced for so long, I was willing to do that anymore. And so, but before I could go and publicly, you know, start talking about these things, I wanted to make sure I told my family so that they wouldn't be when I started my public advocacy and education work. So that's why I told my family, you know, and so forth... But I had a lot of like, don't talk about it, don't talk about it.
REDINA: Because the family, they take it, they seem like it's this image. We want our family to be this perfect, this nice, straight, no problem family. But if everybody be truthful, they've had some kind of experience in their family that would what they. Because there's blemish their image of this perfect family, of this we, you know, we, we're lacking problems. Study something to that extent.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And we have to stop caring what other people think about us.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Because truth be told, every family has a closet full of skeletons. Right. You know, I don't care how much money you have, I don't care how much money you don't have. I don't care where you come from. You could be living in Malibu on the top of Hill. You can be in middle class, a low income, we're living in the projects. Everybody have that secret.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: So what's it to be ashamed of?
SAMIA: Yes. And you know, when we speak out, any one of us speaks up, speaks out, it gives other people the permission to do so. After I came out to my family, I had another one of my cousins come out…
REDINA: It brings healing... It brings healing. And that's what's wrong with the family dynamics now. They need healing…
SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.
REDINA: All those quiet kept secrets need to be exposed.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: So the person who was a, who's the victim can start their healing process.
SAMIA: Yes. And you know, a lot of times when we talk about what you brought up about not enabling. Well, earlier you were talking about it in the context of not enabling the addictive behaviors of those of our friends and family who may have an issue with addiction. But there's also enabling in terms of like, if you're talking about child sexual abuse, what about enabling the perpetrator to continue to, you know, and a person who abuses one child is very likely to have done it to someone else, to some other…
REDINA: Because they were abused. Abusers abuse... And if you go back into their history, someone did them like that somewhere down the line. So it carries on and carries on…
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And in some families it's acceptable. It's because he did it to my mother, so now you can do it to my daughter. And it just travels on and it goes on and it has to stop somewhere, like you said. It has to. Someone has to say, enough is enough. No, we're not going to enable this person and cheer them on and encourage them to do what we know is wrong.
SAMIA: Yeah. And it's not even about encouraging or cheering them, but just by not revealing or talking about what's happens and how it impacts us and so forth, you know, you just allow it to continue because you don't, if you don't do something to stop the behavior, if you don't do something to change the person's behavior, if you don't do something to help them heal, because you're also absolutely right, Redina. That's so many people who engage in abusive behaviors have experienced deep trauma themselves. But it's like if you don't call it out, if you don't take action to, you know, change and heal, you know, everyone really in the family, in the society and so forth, then you know, you cannot break the cycle…
REDINA: And when I say sharing, encouraging, whenever we don't confront somebody, it does make them feel like it's okay. It gives them a form of validation.
SAMIA: Yeah, like the sense of permission…
REDINA: Right. So we are indirectly cheering them and encouraging them because we're not discouraging them, we're not confronting, we're not invalidating, we're not dealing with it hands-on where we're closing our eyes. Because it's not my child yet or it's not me yet. Because you don't know, you know. And parents, they tend to blame themselves for something that they had no control over. But in families, people know who doing what because somebody don't whisper it about uncle or grandpa, somebody don't say something, we might ignore it.
SAMIA: Right.
REDINA: Because we don't want to believe that this person would hurt their own child or their own grandchild, their own niece or their own sibling. It's like an illusion of disbelief once again, because we don't want to see it for what it really is. And that's what happens in mental illness as well. You don't want to see that you have a problem.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: You don't want to, you don't want to believe it because there's just no way that I could be acting, I could be schizophrenic, you know, especially when it doesn't meet the criteria. I'm not out there talking to myself or I'm not walk around dirty, you know, I have a nice house and I have a mental illness. There's just no way I'm educated…
SAMIA: Yes, exactly.
REDINA: And so because we want to hide so much, then we are, we want to stereotype what it looks like to be molested and who the molester is. It's supposed to be the next door neighbor, the creepy guy down the street or the creepy woman down the street when it's the own person in your own house.
SAMIA: Yeah. Right. And even when it comes to like people with various addictions, like we were saying, we have stereotypes, right. And certain kinds of behaviors we recognize as problematic, as addictive and others we just, it's so normalized in our culture, in our society that we won't even recognize that those behaviors are problematic. Yeah.
REDINA: And also, it doesn't matter. Addiction is addiction whether you're a doctor or a person on the street. It's an addiction.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: It doesn't matter if you sitting up on a judge, if you're a judge or whatever your title might be versus somebody that's girl sitting on the side of the curb, you're still addicted, you're still destroying lives, you're still destroying your own life.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: You just have the money, the resource to carry on in your addiction. So what they have to do, you don't got to do yet. But it's going to come to a time where you will have to do something, you know, because addiction doesn't stereotype.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And I think when we get out of that stereotype of what an addict looks like or what a person with a mental illness look like or you know, or what someone even traumatized looking at it, there's no look to it because it's... I call it like that.
Remember the movie. I don't know if you remember the invisible man. He was there, but you consist of... Sit down. I'm telling my age because it was a sitcom years ago called Invisible Man, right. And he was invisible, but he was there. Well, addiction and all that. Invisible man, you can't always see it depending on who's in around.
But it's there.
SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.
REDINA: Mental illness is that invisible man. You can't see it, but it's there.
SAMIA: Yes, yes. So, okay, so awareness, acknowledging confession, really, really critical. First up, what do we do after once we have acknowledged and confessed?
REDINA: You have to go through a transformation because you lived a certain life for so long, and you're familiar with that life. So once you acknowledge it, then you have to find out, really discover what is making me do this. Acknowledging your trauma, acknowledging whatever has caused you to get to this place.
I use this scenario whenever I was with any client. I have rather mental illness brothers, whatever it is... I use as a house. And I get on a vision board and I say, okay, your life is this house. Okay, but you're moving to a new house now. Tell me, what would you take and what would you not take? So we list the negative things in the house, which is symbolic of the light. So if I'm taking... If I'm going to new life, am I going to take old friends? No. Am I going to take old attitudes? No. Okay, let's talk about the character behaviors. So then I tell them, okay, well, we're traveling to this new house, but there's going to be stops on the way. There's going to be construction. There's going to be roadblocks. There's gonna... There's going to be the obstacles to get there. So what do you do? Do you stop and go back to the new house? No. The old house. No... You deal with the obstacles that you've been hiding with drugs and alcohol and whatever your addiction is, you face them. We call them triggers. They're going to come... Those triggers are going to come. So, for example, I love shoes. For example, I can have a shoe. Shoe addiction. So what can be my trigger? And I turn on my computer and there's a picture of some shoes. And now just a picture. But it talks about these shoes on sale. That's a trigger.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Because I know I can't afford the shoes anymore, but I want the shoes because it's like, I gotta gotta have it.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: So what do I do? I have to stop and ask myself. First, identify, that's a trigger. Secondly, I have to stop and ask myself, do I really need these shoes? Or maybe you have to block advertisements of shoes or maybe stamp your computer for a while. Just have it where you can only. Like if you can just say you can do your work, but you don't have to see because you can take the news off your phone.
You know, you can take your news off your computer, which brings up advertisements. Are you going to the store? Maybe take somebody to the mall with you. That can keep you focused until you get stronger.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: So you have to know your triggers. You have to know what's going to Cause you to take that step back. So if I'm on my way to my new house, Okay. I find my trigger. Okay. So I have to learn that. I have to learn to face it and keep going.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: I can't go back to my old ways and say, "Oh, well, this time I'm gonna get these shoes, but I'm not gonna get them next time." I have to stop right then and there and make a change there.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: So then when I see that I did it now to reward myself.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And the more that you reward yourself with praise. Oh, you did a good job. You might have to hug yourself and say, I'm so proud of you. You know, you must tell somebody, oh, my God, I didn't buy them shoes. You know, that's your girl. This is so great. You see? And as you use, they said take 21 days to break an old habit. You do something for 21 days, you bring a new habit in. So I tell them, so what are you gonna take to the new house? And so when we then figure out what do we want over here? And that's an initiative. I'm not going to take this over. I'm not going to take. If I know that I need to get high and I get soon as trouble come, I want to get high. I'm not going to call my high buddies. I'm gonna call people that's living the life that I want to live now.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: I'm not gonna... And if I mess up, if I thought I'm not gonna sneak, I'm gonna confess it. I'm gonna expose it... Yeah. And I'm not going to have high expectations of myself. I'm not gonna act like I cannot fall because I can... I have to be real that I can't handle this. A lot of people's problem is they don't know how to be real and say, I can't handle this. It's like a girl, you know, if you know that you're gonna kiss somebody that's gonna lead you sexually, don't be kissing because you know you can't handle it... Oh, I can handle it. And then you end up in the bed. Okay, here you are, believer. And you end up in the bed. Now you crying because you have to be real with what you cannot handle. If I have a pocket full of money, I better go to the mall because I'm going to see some shoes and I'm going to buy them. So I can't handle that. So I have an accountability partner and it's okay. It doesn't make you weak to have a accountability partner. It actually makes you strong. It doesn't make you weak to say, I can't handle certain things. It actually makes you strong.
SAMIA: Right. And it won't be true forever that you can't handle this. Or it's just through that period where you're trying to create that change.
REDINA: But let me stop there. Even if it is forever, it's okay... We all have a. We all have that thorn. We all have that something that we have that we got to deal with.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: You're right. We may not. But what if we do? It's still okay... And my thing, I tell anybody, it's okay to be you. It's okay not to have it all together. It's okay not to be flawless. It's okay... It's okay to say, you know what, I like to date, but I can't hold your hand, or you can't stand mine at 10 o'clock. Does that make me a bad person? No, it makes me human. Because we all struggle. I used to tell my young men when they were growing up, you're not going to be good in every subject at school. It's okay. Like me, science. I'm horrible at science. I am horrible. Never got a good grade in science. I think one time, maybe when I was in college, I kept dropping science to the very end. And even then I had to ask a science teacher, can he give me extra credit? Okay, now, math and reading. So I tell mine, if you're not good in it, it's okay as long as, you know, you try. So if you get a C, you tried. And that's what I think. We have to learn to accept the things we cannot change. To accept ourselves for who we are, what we have. Look at our gifts and talents and accentuate them.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: You know, and anything that we, our trauma, we came through, we made it. We survived. We're not victims no more. We're survivors... And it's hard. So what happens is people, they stop loving themselves. They don't see themselves as value because of what they've done. That doesn't make you value. It makes you very valuable. Because now your experience would be a benefit. Some of, like, I have a mental illness. Okay. I'm a Christian. I've been a Christian for a long time. Okay.
I preach, I teach, I do... I've done all that. But I have a mental illness. And it's real. It's not a spirit. It ain't the devil. It's something that I was born with, but being in church, it was, you don't have faith buying and rebuke it, that spirit of depression. So I lived in the lie. I lived in a bubble of frustration and, and hopelessness until it caused me to have a breakdown. But then I realized, no, it's not a spirit, it's me. And even today I still have people say, girl, you didn't rebuke that depression. Like, no, I'm depressed.
I'm not going to rebuke nothing. It's real. I'm taking my medication. I'm going to take my medication and I'm going to deal with the triggers that cause me to feel depressed.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: The medication does not heal me. It stabilized me to be able to identify when those feelings are coming upon me and that it can make me handle them differently.
SAMIA: Yes. Yeah, because sometimes, oh my gosh, I mean, there's so many different, like our health and well being. In some ways there can be a little bit complicated for us to figure out in terms of what's going wrong and why. Because there's potentially so many different influences I have been through. Like in my late teens I went through some severe depression. And actually part of it was definitely that the old trauma, like I was at an age where that trauma was starting to come up. And you know, when your mind, your body, etc., they feel ready to deal with it to whatever extent, it will start to surface. So there is definitely some of that going on. But also turns out that I had developed hypothyroidism and I wasn't getting treatment for it because it was not diagnosed. And it turns out that if you have hypothyroidism and you are not getting treated for it, it can also cause depressive symptoms. Because when you have hypothyroidism, it's literally, you know, your entire metabolic system is slowing down, you know, and it's slowing down, slowing down, slowing down. And so the body doesn't have enough energy to keep working at a normal base. If you are not getting treatment and you're continuing to push, trying to push your body to act normal, you can't, you literally don't have enough energy, enough capacity. And on top of that, you know, I was dealing with the trauma of being sexually abused as a child. So it got to a point where my body was like, no, we just cannot keep pretending everything's normal. And it literally forced me to just like, I couldn't get out of bed anymore. I was just so like depressed that I didn't want to do anything. I wasn't taking showers. I wasn't brushing my teeth. I wasn't, you know, I would barely, you know, you know, get up to eat. And that was after my mom badgered me and got mad at me for not eating, you know, so, you know, sometimes. And once I got diagnosed as having hypothyroidism and I started taking that medication, it took like a week or two. But then I started feeling an impact. I started sense of more clarity in my mind. And even though I was still dealing with some of the other trauma and the impacts of that in terms of my mental health and stuff, but there was this other aspect that was the being caused by the lack of treatment for the hypothyroidism that had just made everything worse and more difficult. And so once I started taking my medication, it definitely eased the situation.
REDINA: But see, you said the key word. You took your medication.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: If you never took the medication, the symptoms would have stayed there. And that's the same way with the mental illness. You take your medication.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: You have an illness. And just like you had a physical illness, an ailment, it's the same thing. It's an ailment. It's an ailment of the mind. And you take it. You take your medication and you see the... It's like the fog comes out your eyes and everything become clear.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And so that's the key. Take your medication and take it as prescribed.
Don't take it because you're feeling better. Because see what happens if you just start taking it and felt better, stop taking it, then the symptoms would have returned.
SAMIA: Right. And…
REDINA: So the reason for taking it is for the symptoms to go away, to get better.
SAMIA: Yeah. And that you have to, at the same time, like, oftentimes it's medication. It's just there to support.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: You know, it's not enough on its own. Because after I started taking the medication, after my diagnosis, it did also happen a few years later. I was going through another really difficult point in life where I got... I mean, it wasn't as bad as the. When I was in my late teens, but I was like now a few years later, and I was going through another depressive episode. And at that time, I actually stopped taking my medication because I was just too depressed. And I was like, I don't care. I don't want to feel better. I don't even want to live. I became passively suicidal. And I was like, I'm just not going to take my medication, I'm going to stop. And then if I die, I will die, and I don't care if I die, you know, so it's like. Because what had happened in the meantime was I wasn't... I hadn't done enough healing in other ways. So, yes, I was taking medication, but the other aspects of the trauma that I was dealing with and the mental health issues that I was dealing with, I hadn't addressed them enough. I hadn't done enough healing work. I hadn't seek enough help and support to work through those, you know. And so then again, I got triggered into a state where the depression became strong again. And then I was like. And then, you know, then there was some, you know, it was like literally having/getting to a point where, you know, like, when. Where things got so bad again that, you know, again it was my family that pulled me back up and out of it, where they were like, what are you doing? You know, let's go back, see the doctor. Like. literally, my mom. No, it was my sister, I think, who had to make the appointment for me. I just let my prescription expire. I didn't have any more medicine. And so they were like... And at that time, thankfully, my family started to recognize the symptoms of, oh, why is Samia, like, feeling so, like, down in her energy? And it started gaining weight and things like that. And so at that time, my family had enough awareness to be like, hey, is her thyroid acting up again? And they were like, are you taking your medicine? Maybe your dose needs to be adjusted and stuff for your next checkup. And then it all came out that, oh, I not taken it for several months, my medicine, I don't even have a valid prescription anymore. And I didn't bother making an appointment with the doctor, you know, and so literally, my sister was the one who made the appointment. And my dad drove me and my mom badgered me to go and then they picked up my new prescription. And, you know, my mom would stand there and watch me like, did you take your medication? Here is your medication. Take it... You know, and so you do need, you know, help and support.
REDINA: You do. And then you also have to have active life. I mean, once you take medication, you have to change your diet, you have to exercise, you have to be around, have a support team.
SAMIA: Exactly.
REDINA: All that is a role to play after you take the medication. The problem is people are not taking their medication. They have the support. They just. Because they don't work the stigma of having to take medication, you know. Especially the mental illness, that you're crazy stigma.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Oh, you better stay away from her because she or he, crack, you know. And it causes a lot of backlash from taking it. But I'm, once again the same thing is that if you want to feel better, you got to take it. You have to be. You got to be an active participant in your healing because your mother could have took you, your father could have taken you, your sister. But if you chose not to be an active participant, and we have to be advocates for ourselves and realize where are we at and what we're in need of.
SAMIA: Yes. Yeah. I think, like, for me, I was lucky that the second episode that I had with the depression, it, like I said, it wasn't so bad. Like, I had become passively. Like, I don't care. I don't if I die or whatever. But thankfully, I was in actively suicidal, you know, and so when, like, my... When I got that push from my family, I was willing to let them push me and go along, you know, so that is. And then what you said about, you know, that it's once you start taking the medication, then you also need to be doing the other thing. I think that's also a really important key because I think one of the things that I was experiencing in my depressive phase was like, I was like, what's the point of life? Like, why, why even bother being alive? You know, what's the... I felt very disconnected from any sense of meaning and purpose to my life. And so that was actually also part of the healing that I needed was to find some sense of meaning and purpose to my life.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: What happened was that was around the time when I was, like, you know, in college, and I found, you know, I joined some clubs on campus where they were actually, you know, in engaging in activism around sexual abuse awareness and prevention work. And I was like, you know, what if I can stop another child, another person from being sexually abused and hurt and suffering the way that I had to suffer, then that is something meaningful for me to live for. And that is why I actually got motivated to be like, okay, no, I first of all have to do. I have to help myself. I have to begin to get better. I have to build up my capacity so I can do this work. And I actually went through, like, on campus, they actually had a training program to. There were, like, a certification training to become an advocate for sexual violence prevention. And so I went through that training, and then I was like, okay, if I'm really going to do this work, And I'm going to come out and do this publicly. That's when I was like, okay, then my family has to know about what I've been through as a child and all of that. And so, you know, it was definitely like, these things are so, so connected to each other that, you know. Yeah.
REDINA: Purpose. Because you have to have a purpose. People have to understand that you weren't born just for nothing.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: That a purpose came along with you when you was born and that even though things happen, that's unfortunate. We don't discount that. And it's sad and it's hurtful. That used to have a purpose. And that purpose now is to tell your story and help someone else who's living that same story find hope, healing and happiness.
SAMIA: Yeah. And prevention, I think is so important because I'm like, okay, for the people who have already experienced that trauma, yes, of course we want to be there to help them. But I think it's also really important to think about how can we prevent these things from happening in the first place? How can we prevent people getting to that point in their lives where they fall into some addiction in order to try and cope with these kinds of horrible traumas? And so…
REDINA: ..let me stop you there, because sometimes you can't prevent certain addictions because people invite their children to use drugs at 7, 8 and 9 years old.
So in order to prevent, you got to move them out of the environment. And there I have a lot of clients. I've had a lot of clients who parents. Started them using math. Yeah. Because they were using them. Or their siblings…
SAMIA: Yeah. No…
REDINA: That's why I always tell people that purpose is so important. .
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Because what do you tell somebody who was forced to use drugs or was enticed to use drugs?
SAMIA: Right.
REDINA: You know, and then we say, how can I prevent that? Well, you couldn't be prevented.
SAMIA: No, not in that instance. But, you know, when I talk about prevention, I'm talking about like creating a change in society, you know, where, you know, for example, one of the things that I keep coming back to is this, this environment of blaming, judging, shaming anyone for any reason, honestly. It's like if we can work to help each other develop a mindset of non-judgment, of treating each other with compassion and giving each other unconditional love, you know, no matter what we may be going through in our lives, you know, to come at it from that approach of we're not going to judge each other, we're not going to shame each other, blame each other, and you know what? I'm not going to do that to myself either. Start with myself.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: If we can begin to cultivate that kind of culture. Starting with ourselves and with our loved ones that, you know, we are able to influence and then going out beyond that to the larger society, hopefully, then so many problems can be prevented.
REDINA: Yes, yes, yes... And something you said which is really, I think really resonated with me, as you said, we start with ourselves. And first thing I would say normally is to somebody this, well, that's how the world is... You know what I'm saying? You know, that's how the world is. And that's how life. But something you said is so true. Yes. That is how the world is. But if one person starts and then it becomes like a fire and catches on it, that's what matters. What are we doing? What am I doing? Am I looking at what other people are not doing and saying, well, it's no, there's no sense of doing it because look. Or am I saying, well, let me do it. Let me start.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Okay? Let me start it. Let me be that person that shows love. We are in such a lovely society, and that's one of my main problems, love...We need to love people, love one another, love and respect each other for who we are. Our differences, honor each other. But because society has another, is give me, gimme who's on top. So what I'm trying to do is me, do me, my part…
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Now look at other people, what they should be doing? But what is my purpose and what am I required to do?
SAMIA: Yes. And, you know, the great news for us is that we know that this can make a difference. When we make for this kind of effort, it can and does make make a difference. Like, you can look through history of, you know, how, for example, here in America, if you think about how many cultural changes have occurred in terms of, I mean, racism still exists, but there's have been so many improvements. Like my dad, he is always reminding us that not too long ago there was a time in America where our family would not. Was literally not allowed to come to America because there were a ban on Asian immigration. And even if we had come when that ban was lifted and more Asian people started to come here because we are people of color, we would not have been able to have the same kind of life experience and quality of life that we do now. In the aftermath of the civil rights movement that, you know, mostly like, you know, it was like black people who were leading that movement and struggled. And now my Asian family is benefiting from that struggle that, you know, black people went through. And I mean, of course…
REDINA: And, you know, and we're still going through it. And that's the sad thing about it. The 21st century African American people are still going through struggle. We are still stereotyped. You would think, even if you listen to the election, you would think it's only black or white in this world. No, because that's how they try to gear towards the blacks, you know, otherwise. And it's like it's other people in the world that's going to vote, people. You know what I'm saying? Black people are still. We're still behind, even in Hollywood, with black actors being still paid less than their counterparts in businesses, in companies, you know, and you're right, everybody, so many people are benefiting from ours, from our struggle, but at the same time, we are still arising, too.
SAMIA: Yes, exactly.
REDINA: We're still discovering and arising, and we are elevating, you know, and I love that. I love that we are resilient people. And so I'm proud of that part of us, you know, that we are... There are places that we are now able to get in, you know, I mean, because something, somebody has had to go. We're able to vote.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: You know, that's why I vote regardless of how I felt or who I feel about. Because people, my forefathers died to give me this right. So now I'm going to utilize the rights that I have.
SAMIA: Yes, exactly. It's like the struggle is ongoing and just to, you know, the point is to appreciate whatever progress we have made so we can stay. I think, like, for me, that's a point of motivation to keep going, you know, because, like, when I think about, for example, in a slightly different context of when we talk about sexual violence, you know, sexual violence is also still a serious, major problem in our society. We're still living with stats like one out of every three women and every six men have experienced sexual violence, sexual abuse in their lives. It's crazy. And I have seen progress where there's more people willing to talk about it. More awareness. There is not enough, but there is more. More awareness, more education. Like just the fact that, for example, I'm talking about it. And as a result of my talking about it, I've had other people in my family come and, you know, step up and share what they have experienced. And, you know, and so there's more awareness in my family.
REDINA: And people are believing you now more and the perpetrator is being made accountable for what they've done.
SAMIA: Yes.
REDINA: And I. I believe that's a big issue. That's one of the plus, because now a person has a voice, and they know their voice is going to be heard and believed and action can be taken.
SAMIA: Yeah. It's more likely. I mean, we're still having problems like the when one of my other family members recently came out, and so there were definitely people in our family who believe them and who, like myself included, I was like, you know, I'm here for you. Tell me, what can I do to support you? And we took whatever actions we could in terms of holding the perpetrator accountable and so forth, but there were still other members of the family who were in denial, who didn't want to believe it, don't talk about it. The struggle continues, but I see progress, and that is encouraging and hope giving to me.
REDINA: And then you have to bypass the naysayers and keep going, because no matter what, you always going to have somebody so go, shh... You know what I'm saying?
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: That's not even important. What's important is that it's exposed, what's important, that healing is taking place, that deliverance is taking place, that wholeness is taking place.
SAMIA: Yeah. And, you know, even for the naysayers, I think I'm more and more coming to the point where I'm like, you know, if there is something I can do to engage the naysayers and maybe further understand them with more compassion and empathy, why are they being naysayers? What's going on for them that has cultivated that attitude for them? Because at one point in time, you know, or maybe on a different issue, I am challenged in that way, and I'm not willing to face up to something.
REDINA: Yes, that's a good one. Yeah.
SAMIA: So it's coming back to that idea of let's cultivate a culture, an environment where we don't blame shame, judge each other for any reason, but rather try to support each other with empathy and more compassion and more unconditional love.
REDINA: That's it. You're right. And that's the key. Love is such the key.
It is. It really is. Love is needed…
SAMIA: Yeah. And I think that's one of the most important lessons we learned from Jesus, right. The unconditional love.
REDINA: The love, yes.
SAMIA: Even for the people who think of themselves as your enemy and try to hurt you, you still love them because you don't... You choose not to think of them or treat them as your enemy.
REDINA: Yes, yes, yes... You it can be challenging, but you have to want, you know, when you want to. And that's where I'm at in life. I just to live free and to live free from past and from things that's been done. To me it's just forgiveness and moving forward love, you know, and because forgiveness is a really big impactor, so many people is walking around with unforgiveness, they've been hurt so much. But when you don't forgive, the person that have done any type of harm to you still has control. You should take the power back and forgive them. It doesn't mean that they don't, that they weren't wrong or they didn't say something wrong. It just means that you're really, you're recognizing that. Is it really worth changing who I am? Because some people may or may not change. It's up to us to be who we are.
SAMIA: Yes. And you know, another aspect of forgiveness that I'm trying to work on more for myself is also, you know, like, I think again, you know, like applying every lesson to myself first. And so when I think about how I have been really difficult to deal with as a person in my life, for example, for my parents when I was, you know, my trauma, very traumatized self. And also I think another person who was really impacted by my trauma in a negative way was my little sister. Because when I was very traumatized, I was and you know, after I got out of my denial and suppression phase, I went into a serious angry, being angry phase. I was so angry at everyone and everything. And a lot of that anger I took out on the people who loved me most. Like my little sister actually got the worst of it because like, even with my parents, I didn't feel I could get away with expressing, for example, like I would never, I never even thought to hit my parents, but I hit my little sister, you know, because I could get away with that. And she was one of the very few people in my life that I had more power than, you know, and so I took a lot of my negative energy on her and she forgave me, you know. And she has continued to love me and be one of my biggest points of support actually now. And even in the context of like when it came time for me and I was like, okay, I have to tell my family, she was the one who helped me through that process. She literally hand held me through the process of my coming out to my family, you know, and so like When I think about what, like, if she hadn't forgiven me, if she hadn't loved me so unconditionally as she did.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: What they, you know, I don't know if I would have been able to create the level of positive change and experience the level of healing that I did. I mean, maybe eventually I would have achieved it, but it would have been so much harder and more difficult. And so when I think about that, you know, because, like, I have to, you know, like, you know, now I'm using language of empathy for myself in explaining what was going on. But the fact is that I literally abused my sister, you know, emotionally, sometimes even physically, right. And I was an abuser. So, you know, like, and, and so, like, now I'm trying to come to a place where I'm like, okay, what about the person who abused me? Or that... Can I forgive them? Am I there yet? Can I work on myself to get to that point, you know?
REDINA: Yeah. That's true. You're right... And we go back to the saying that people who are abused, they end up abusing.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: Some form somewhere, yeah.
SAMIA: But it's like breaking the cycle, right.
REDINA: Yes, yes.
SAMIA: Because of my sister's love for me and her forgiveness for me, I was able to break the cycle. And thankfully, you know, I no longer abuse her.
REDINA: Yes, yes.
SAMIA: I hope I don't abuse anyone else either, anymore either... So forgiveness literally allowed me to break the cycle of abuse, of being not only being a victim of abuse, but becoming abusive myself.
REDINA: Yes.
SAMIA: And abuse other people. And so forgiveness, wow... It's, I mean, it has so many impacts. It's, yeah…
REDINA: It's very powerful. Again, this is powerful. And it's more powerful than people think it is. It really is. You know, it is... Yes. So, yes, you're right…
SAMIA: Redina, you know what? We've been... I couldn't help but keep talking to you. And I know. Oh my gosh, we've been talking for... I've kept you way longer than I told you I would.
REDINA: It's okay. It's okay…
SAMIA: Thank you for staying.
REDINA: It's been enjoyable.
SAMIA: Oh, thank you for that... Do you have any last thoughts you would like to share? And then, you know, maybe we'll just bring you back so we can keep talking…
REDINA: That'd be nice. No, I've enjoyed it... I just do want people. Well, yes, I think I do, huh... Is that one is take heed to whatever your trauma is and get the necessary help. Get the help so you can function whole to complete your purpose. And you're one perfect example of look, walking in your purpose, walking in healing and wholeness and able to share it now and impact the world... We're showing that I'm a survivor and my surviving look where I'm at now, I'm thriving.
SAMIA: Yeah.
REDINA: And through forgiveness, love and forgiveness... And so I would tell anyone, don't put high expectations on yourself. Meet yourself where you're at and build from there…
SAMIA: Yes, yes, yes, yes…
REDINA: And feel From there. That's what I would like to say. Yes.
SAMIA: Thank you for those very, very wise words, Redina. And my last reminder to our audience is simply to make sure you check the show notes because I will be dropping Redina's links in there so you can connect with her and get the help and support that you need whenever you're ready for it... So until we connect next time, I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy. :)
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