How To Build A Gratitude Practice With Fun And Ease!

How To Build A Gratitude Practice With Fun And Ease!
Sohale Sizar & Samia Bano

Want peace? Want to #BeHappier?

Try gratitude.

And listen now to this interview with Sohale Sizar, the Founder of "Soul". In this episode,

-- Learn how gratitude can be your "emotional life vest", your go-to tool, to stay afloat during the #stormsoflife.

-- Explore the #spiritualconnection between #loveandgratitude, and how being seen and seeing with love can transform your #emotionalwellbeing.

-- Understand the difference between having a #GratitudeAttitude vs. Toxic Positivity!

-- Uncover how the integration of tech, psychology, and spiritual frameworks can create new ways for you to #understandyourself and #liveyourbestlife

-- Learn about a text-based tool ("Soul") that meets you where you are—delivering spontaneous gratitude prompts that help you build a daily #gratitudepractice with fun and ease!

-- And so much more!

Connect with Sohale and check out "Soul" at: https://www.bringsoul.life/

PLUS an amazing GIFT -- Use promo code “THEWORD” to try Soul for 30 days FREE!!

About Sohale:

Sohale Sizar is the founder of Soul, and his mission is to illuminate the #dailypractice of #gratitude for his rapidly growing online community.

An entrepreneur since the age of nine with 15 years of dedicated practice in meditation and gratitude, Sohale translated his experiences into earning a Stanford MBA and building ventures spanning non-profit charities, education, and consumer technology.

Sohale is now an exited entrepreneur on a mission to facilitate access to one's inner light through gratitude teachings.

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#feelingloved #gratitudealways #powerofgratitude #GratitudeAndGrowth #GratitudeAndGrace #GratitudeAndJoy #AbundanceMindset #SpiritualWellness #EmotionalHealing #PositivePsychology #MindsetShift #SelfAwareness #SpiritualGrowth #EmotionalIntelligence #SelfAwarenessJourney

Here's the audio version of this episode:

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Full Video Transcript

SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry! It's so good to be with you again. And I know you'll be so happy you've joined us today because we have a very special guest with us, and it's Sohale Sizar, who's the founder of Soul, that is on a mission to illuminate the daily practice of gratitude for his rapidly growing online community. Welcome, Sohale…

SOHALE: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here, Samia.

SAMIA: Yes. I'm so happy that you're here. And I know because we'll be talking about gratitude, by the time we're done, both you and I and our listeners will be feeling so much happier.

SOHALE: I hope so…

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed. Actually, before we get into the whole gratitude thing, Sohale, please tell us more about who you are and what you do.

SOHALE: Yeah, absolutely. So I was born and raised in New Hope, Pennsylvania. Really on a quest to make a impact or bring a new color to the world since I was 9. And about three years ago, I was told I should start a gratitude journal. So I went and bought a journal. Like hundred, hundreds of people, if not, I believe about 100 million people in this country have bought a journal. And like a hundred million other people, I failed. I wrote in it for five days. That's it. And then I was like, I'm done with this. And it ended up being this nice journal on my desk. And how many of us have, you know, bought a nice journal sitting on the desk? So instead I would start writing an email to myself and schedule sending it. I write what I'm grateful for. I'd schedule, send it, come back to my inbox, and I do that for three years and I build this gratitude habit. And that really brought me full circle to that my childhood where I was raised in a community where actually I really didn't feel necessarily, at least by society around me, that safety to be who I am. But I did have it from my parents and my inner home. And that safety meaning to make an impact, to actually go outside my bubble and make an impact. And so you know what? This then led me now to building SOUL. So I was a CEO of another company last, you know, before that, that company was acquired. And now I'm focusing on building, taking this hack that allowed me to build a gratitude habit to others.

SAMIA: Nice. Actually, you know, you're so right about struggle we can have journaling. I've been through that in different, somewhat different contexts. But the fact that you actually did scheduled emails to yourself, that's something that actually creates a very interesting layer, because you didn't just write it down somewhere, you actually sent it to yourself. You actually read what you had written, which is something… a lot of times, although encouraged in the context of physical journal writing, a lot of people won't get around to doing either. So the fact that you receive these emails from yourself reminding you of what you were grateful for, I think you actually added an element to the practice that is really brilliant.

SOHALE: It was amazing to get the email back and like, "Oh, yeah, I totally forgot about what happened last week." You know, that little moment, you know, and when you read those, it really does impact you because you remember that you're loved. There's actually a few things that I learned that I think a lot of folks would benefit. One was when I was writing the emails and I would schedule send them, I would do it spontaneously. How many of us, we do something every day and then, you know, we stop after a week or two, you know… and just like, it's like, especially with new products or notifications, like, after two weeks, like, stop telling me every day, you know… so spontaneity was really powerful. And then also mercy, you know… I would write, maybe I wouldn't. I said to myself, one word is even a win. Even if you write one word, that's a win. So these are a couple of my takeaways and more that came about from the experience.

SAMIA: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I definitely want to learn more about this system that you've created for helping people practice gratitude. But before we do that, tell me a little bit more about, you know, the... Tell me more about your connection to gratitude. Like, why should we care in the first place about creating a gratitude attitude?

SOHALE: Yeah, I you know, I think we live in a day and age now where it's so easy to compare ourselves with one another when you're on Instagram or if, you know, using social media or really finding inner peace is probably the goal of so many. And we know that. And what gratitude did for me was became this emotional life vest where every time I thought that the waves of life were a little bit high, it allowed me to keep my head above water because I remembered that I was loved. It's a really…

SAMIA: Tell me more about that. How... How are you… So you say you're, you would think of something you were grateful for and it reminded you that you were loved. You have to tell me more about that.

SOHALE: Yeah. So, for example, you know, let's say you have a busy work week and you feel like, oh, I could have done better. O on this or that or whatever it is. And then I get my spontaneous email pop up sometime, and I see what I wrote last Thursday, and I'm like, oh, wow. It just totally reframed my narrative that things maybe aren't going as well as I'd like or that it would just reframe life. Like it is going the right direction. Have patience. It is going in the right direction. You know, seek refuge in your spirituality. And I think that's really powerful to have that reminder in the world, especially in a society where we're told, you know, you always need to gain things externally, right. Buy this and you will be happy. You're switching the equation. You're saying that I am enough, and you go from a place of abundance versus scarcity in your, throughout your day.

SAMIA: Okay, all right, I... so if I might ask a follow question to dig a little bit deeper. So again, coming back to the idea of feeling loved. So are you saying that when you talk about feeling loved in this context, you're talking about it from a spiritual perspective?

SOHALE: Oh, absolutely, yeah. I mean, for me, yes.

SAMIA: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just clarifying. And so then in the context of, you know, again, like, people are listening to us who have very different backgrounds, you have a diverse audience, you tell me a little bit more about your idea of love from a spiritual perspective, and again, I'm sure it'll connect back to gratitude.

SOHALE: Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, I got to give a plug about all the other benefits of gratitude because there's 30 years of research that says incredible benefits that are amazing.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SOHALE: The concept of love, you know, I… There's a beautiful story where the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was asked by the Angel Gabriel of what is spiritual excellence, or Ihsan... And in short, if I may, he basically says to worship God as if you see him everywhere. And if you don't see him, know that he is seeing you. And so what's wonderful about this idea, I believe that love ultimately at its core, is to be seen. And so when we realize that we, you know, that we are being watched in a loving way, it's a remind. Gratitude is the reminder that we are being seen by the divine.

SAMIA: Okay, okay. So now I'm better understanding your connection between feeling loved and the gratitude journaling or the emailing, the activity that... Wow, I don't think I've ever heard anyone define love in that way, but I, there's something very cool and touching about it. Thank you for sharing.

SOHALE: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's what intimacy is too, actually. I mean, like, everything, all the layers of love that we see in the world, from kindness to romance to platonic, familial, it's all related at its core of being seen.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. And actually, like, when we are practicing gratitude, it's also about what we are seeing.

SOHALE: Exactly.

SAMIA: And you know, the. The perspective with which we are seeing. So to be seen is to feel loved. And then in the context of gratitude, we are seeing, if I may say this way, that we are seeing things maybe perhaps from a perspective of love, because love isn't obviously just one thing. And certainly in so far as we may be thinking of love as an aspect of a relationship, there is definitely give and take. And so in this case, it's both about seeing and being seen. And on the one side of that is love as you experience it, like I'm being loved. But on the other hand, aside, if it is the gratitude of seeing things from a loving perspective.

SOHALE: Yeah.

SAMIA: Ah. And actually... Oh, my gosh, you just reminded me of this really amazing lesson that I've been learning, you know, where one of my teachers I've been working with, he actually had us do this experiment with ourselves where he was like, okay, like, feel your heart, your spiritual heart. And through your spiritual heart, like, first of all, feel, experience that you are being loved. And how does that feel? And then you feel through your heart, loving back.

SOHALE: Yeah.

SAMIA: And then how do you feel? And if you were to compare those two states, you know, like what's the difference? And the amazing thing that I experienced, but that actually when I feel loved, of course I feel really happy because you are being loved. And like, if you truly feel loved, you feel so happy. And at the same time, when, you know, you feel yourself loving back, you feel even more happy.

SOHALE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's profoundly beautiful. I think that there's a oneness in the giver and the receiver too. And so then what gratitude essentially is allowing us to do is tap into the, I believe the divine root that inspired all that is. You know, I believe that the God created the world out of gratitude for his own magnificence. It's almost his own glory. And so every time we're being grateful, we're essentially taking the viewpoint or as much as we can, or adorning ourselves with the attributes of divinity and that's seeing the abundance versus the supposed absence of it, which I would say is darkness.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, like, the idea of the abundance mindset is something that is something it's being talked about as an idea. And for sure, I agree with you that like, if you really, really want to experience abundance, gratitude is the way to go. But. ..So tell me more. Not, no, but in this situation, just tell me more about, like, for people who feel that challenged around practicing gratitude, who feel challenged about being able to see the abundance around them, what do you think is maybe one of the core issues that they're dealing with?

SOHALE: So a lot of how we're informed and how we know things, now we see things is really through our software of our minds, right. And a lot of times the narratives that we have in our minds are geared towards scarcity. The, the way we speak, you know, is it, you'll notice like some, some folks or some you'll see all the time in advertising everywhere, you know, where it's like, I don't know if I can do it. Like, that's a wrong statement from a abundance perspective. It's like, I am doing it, you know, or whatever that is. So a lot of is rewiring our psychology of reframing the way we think. And when we reframe, then the prism changes. When the prism changes, then we see things differently. And then when we see things, definitely we then reinforce that prism, right. I mean, that's how it works psychologically for sure. So that I would say is like, if folks want to, you know, reframe their minds or rewire their minds, that's a whole process in itself. That's like a. That's a whole process of self-discovery. A lot of some of it's psychological, right. Going to your childhood, like, what were things that happened, maybe that gave you narratives of who you are and tapping on those and then, and then changing them. Affirmations is powerful as well. There's a host of things that we could talk about on that front, but that's essentially what it's about.

SAMIA: Yes, yes, I agree with you. I agree with you definitely. You know, in the context of my work as a happiness expert, grounded in positive psychology, that is one of the key lessons that you learned. That the way that you feel, the way that you think, the way you act, these are all interconnected and interrelated to each other. And it's also are connected to what you believe, you know, and so the beliefs that we, some, a lot of times, you know, they take home in our minds, in our hearts, we don't even realize when that belief has taken root inside of us. And a lot of Times, you know, in the context of feeling scarcity in our lives, it has to do with, you know, you may have experienced moments of scarcity or when you didn't feel safe in your life. And instead of, you know, us being able to have the perspective of, oh, just in this moment, I felt something missing... But in the big picture of things, look, I made it through, I'm fine. Everything is okay right now, or turned out okay in that moment. And from a bigger picture perspective, we sort of, you know, take the little, that moment of not feeling safe and you sort of like generalize it to oh, I'm not safe or there isn't enough. And then, you know, it just begin to impact how we see the world in general and how we feel in general. Yeah.

SOHALE: No, absolutely. And all that era, as you said, comes down to the beliefs and we're reinforcing our beliefs. So what gratitude is doing is rewiring the brain and see that from a physical perspective as well. You know, those who are grateful, they have better skin, they have better cardiovascular health, they live longer I mean, because you have these neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine and oxytocin being released. So it's all interconnected. And so if we can actually build a gratitude practice, we can actually transform our lives now. And then the question becomes, all right, how do I actually do that? I'm convinced that it works. How can I do that? I did was writing emails and then led to me to build a tool to help people to do that. But we definitely need to find ways to do that because it is pivotal.

SAMIA: Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about the tool... Are you still having people send emails to themselves?

SOHALE: No. No... So it's got way more advanced, it's a text message based tool, so that's much more advanced for you. But what we do is we send spontaneous nudges of gratitude prompts over text message and folks can reply to the text message. So one, it's spontaneous like the email, you get it on Monday, then a Thursday, you don't know when. And then two, it's on your phone, which is wonderful in the sense that you can do a voice memo, you can send a photo, so the bar is really low, which was one of my as well, which is like this shouldn't be like, I don't have to turn on a candle and have a journal and write and you know, I like, let's make it really as easy as possible. And we have an Apple version, like, imessage version. So if you're in your iPad or your MacBook or whatever, you can just, you know, text soul right there. And, you know, type away. And then we encrypt all that in an online journal where people can remember all the moments that they've been loved and et cetera, and they can opt in even to receive insights about themselves. Who's inspiring them, you know, what are the patterns that are inspiring them to be joyful, which are really important at doubling down and finding more happiness in life. So when you say, talk about... When you talk about helping people see the patterns is based on the things that they have journaled and documented in the context of responding back to these nudges of gratitude prompts. Oh, that is really cool. Yeah. So that sort of... It's sort of like if you were able to look back at your own emails or if you had a physical journal and you were able to look back. And that is like, really, I really like that because, you know, journal writing, not just in the context of like, the gratitude practice. When I first started journal writing, it was more to just. Or whatever I was thinking and feeling. It was like I was very socially challenged in my youth, and so I didn't have anyone to talk to. And so for me, you know, journaling became that way of, you know, having an imaginary someone to communicate with.

But it was like, really important. And over the years, you know, like, at this point, I've, like, I don't know how many journals all filled up my past. And every so often, you know, I would. And I continued every so often, just go back and take a look. And it's like, amazing how there are certain patterns that you can so clearly see that you are repeating. If there's like, problems, there's challenges, there's questions that I was like what I was asking this stuff and thinking about it like 10 years ago, and I'm still stuck here. But there's other things you can see. Oh, I've made so much progress.

SOHALE: Totally, totally. And we, we focus because it's gratitude journal. We focus on, you know, what's working and how much you can double down on the what's working because, you know, it's so powerful. I feel like the most precious knowledge in the world is knowing who you are. You know who you are. You can navigate where you want to go. And what does that mean to know who you are? What do you like, what you don't like what's working for you.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SOHALE: And so when you discover that, oh, here are the concepts that inspire me, you know, then you can bring more of that into your life. And it's such a pity. I feel you, because I also did when I was growing up, I did a bunch of journals and then they're all now in the basement. And like, I'll be candid, I don't, you know, I don't go back and read them because they're at my childhood home. And so I'm less there.

But it's an... Actually, I don't. I was gonna say it's a pity. No, it's not. It's an opportunity to create a way for people to actually take advantage of all that they've written. And so that's opt in, though, you know, some people there, because we leverage AI for that. We do delete people's data every 30 days on AI and it doesn't train any data set. But for those who are open to that, they can opt in and learn more about who they are. We even say their light type, which is cool. So it's like, how do you find joy? There's six different light types and it's based off of the stages of alchemy. And so specific people experience or find joy in unique ways. Like, for example, I'm a transcendent light, so I find gratitude through recognizing divinity in my everyday. It's like, for me, that's how it shows up. But others are different.

SAMIA: Yeah, tell me more about this. Sorry, what was the six... What, what, what?

SOHALE: Six light types…

SAMIA: Six light types. Okay, I've not heard about those. Tell me more.

SOHALE: Yeah, so there's seven stages of alchemy. Alchemy is the transformation from lead to gold. But talking about from a spiritual angle. And it's actually in a lot of esoteric texts. So the seventh stage is crystallization or this idea of just completeness. So one through six is really, I would say, where we focus on. So we call them six light types. So the first one, and we can go each one... The first four really coordinate with the seasons. So the first and alchemy, generally, these stages represent the macrocosm. So the first four would say it'd be north is for the first stage. And I mean, this is a long way longer. This will be. We'll go really deep.

But I'm going to give it over. You know, you can double-click where you would like…

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.

SOHALE: The first stage represents like winter, which is like this burning away, the second stage or second light. So burning away is purification, ultimately purification. The second light type is related to spring. So life itself, trust, you know, it's really a washing away. The third is coagulation or really that's like peace and you find maybe gratitude through just like moments of peace. So there's six different light types. And so the first four represents seasons and then the last two represent height and depth... Height meaning transcendence. And then depth meaning represents the spiritual heart or sun light. An embodiment of source and spirit.

SAMIA: Okay, okay. So in this framework it's that you are saying there are six types, but also it seems like there might be a little bit of a process kind of a thing going in terms of like stages of growth, as it were. And obviously we would not imagine that you are always stuck in one stage or probably, you know, it's more like. Oh, in different aspects of your life you may be experiencing things at different stages. So simultaneously, you could be like in the context of your, maybe a personal relationship you're really struggling with. You may be at, I don't know, like maybe experiencing the winter…

SOHALE: Yeah…

SAMIA: In other contexts of your life you may be in the spring stage, you know, or whatever... So you can be experiencing all these stages in your life even simultaneously, kind of a thing.

SOHALE: Absolutely.

SAMIA: It's not like every, it's not like you're just one thing, our one experience.

SOHALE: That's exactly right. And in the context of gratitude, it's more of just like what inspires you, like what stage really inspires you. But we all go through every stage all the time. I mean, every stage, not all the time, but throughout life.

SOHALE: Because it's actually, I would say the framework for the entire world.

I mean just how the world works from nature's perspective, whether it's from cooking food, like how to actually prepare and cook food from nature itself, and the birth, you know, the life, the death, the rebirth, etc, so those stages represent that.

SAMIA: Yeah. So through your app do you also like guide people to sort of be able to uplevel from one stage to the next, insofar as there is maybe an upleveling effect of for example, going from experiencing the winter to the spring, etc…

SOHALE: That is a... If I could, you know, figure that one out, then everyone would be an enlightened master, I think. Which, it's a process that's inward, but we do facilitate the doors to get there, and you know, what's amazing is that we are the only ones who are doing this and have built and thought of it in this way because it's a marriage between philosophy and tech. And so you have to have integrity in both in order to righteously share this. So what do we do instead? So we talked about prompts and sending gratitude prompts.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SOHALE: But we have something called soul paths. So people, because it's so important to have a path or to path meaning a direction of how you can go through, quote unquote, the seasons.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SOHALE: Right? And so we have paths around self compassion, we have paths around different spiritual modalities or traditions so that people can experience what is the path for them in where they. In order to deepen their inner peace and self realization.

SAMIA: Yeah, that is really cool. That is really cool. And you know, even like just something as simple as kind of prompts we have can sort of help. But you're right because it is an inner process and you know, it's like an interesting aspect of our psychology is that, you know, especially like when you're trying to create change, positive change, it's like the gap between where you are and where you would ideally love to go cannot be too much for you. And obviously that's an individual thing. Like what you experiences too much for you is an individual assessment. Because it's like in the context of, for example, educational psychology, you talk about if the test that you're given is too difficult, like if you're grade one student and you're given a sixth grade exam, it's going to be too much. Unless you are a hidden genius and misplaced in terms of you shouldn't be in the first grade in the first place. But assuming you're great, actually grade one level and somebody hands you a sixth-grade test, it's going to be too much for you. You're not going to be able to, you know, meet the challenge, and it's actually going to discourage you because you'll be like, oh no, I can't do this. I'm such a... It's likely to make you think, you know, that you're a failure, etc., etc... But obviously in the context again of like our education, the goal is to keep up leveling your knowledge and teaching you things that you don't know. But you have to be presented the right level of challenge for you so that you can actually learn. It's like not too much of a stretch, so that you can... And it's like when you are feeling down and you want to start feeling better. Yeah, you do have to also take steps that are manageable for you. So I mean, there are processes. It's not there... I mean, if we look into whether it's research in the context of psychology or spiritual teachings, like you said, for example, through the framework of this, these six light types, there are understandings of how you can go from even feeling really bad to helping yourself to feel the very best. But yeah, how would you do that in the context of like an app? You now you've got me thinking…

SOHALE: Well, it's a good question, but I really feel like it's that, you know that quote that says you can, you know, teach a... You can feed a man a fish for one day, or you could, and then you can teach him again. You feed himself for like ever... So I do think, and that's why I said earlier, the most precious knowledge in the world is knowing who you are. Right? Because if you know who you are, then you're able to more effectively manage what you're exactly what you're saying. And that is a very individual journey. So the question, how can we support folks, though, in that journey so that they can learn more? And so we even, you mentioned educational psychology. We have a path about building emotional intelligence and self awareness.

SAMIA: Hmm, nice.

SOHALE: Yeah. And for 30 days you'll get prompts, or you'll get 30 prompts or so.

I think it's spanned over 60 days, every other day of prompts that are related to helping you understand yourself and being aware of yourself. Because awareness is such a key part of this, right. I mean, how can you assess yourself or not... I don't like the word assess, but how can you understand yourself, if you're not aware of yourself.

SAMIA: Yeah, no, it does start with awareness. Of course, of course, if you're not even aware, cannot even begin to talk about anything else, really, you know, and so like, yeah, so from awareness to acceptance, even just from awareness to acceptance, it's like a journey, you know, like, acceptance of what? Like, because we have a tendency to oftentimes fight the realities that we perceive, you know, that we become aware of. And we're like, no, I don't like this.

SOHALE: Yeah.

SAMIA: I don't want to deal with this. And so, you know, you want to deny it, you want to suppress that, you want to run away from it. But the beautiful thing about gratitude is that, you know, it's like taking that perspective that, I mean, you don't want to run away from that, you know, because it makes you feel so good.

SOHALE: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny, it seems like gratitude is alchemizing our life, right. It's taking something that. Or taking life generally and saying, okay, well how are we going to transfigure this and see it as well? Now, I do want to mention that doesn't mean that everything is always rosy, too, right. It's like there's this thing that some people talk about and I don't know if folks know about this or not have heard it, but toxic positivity, this idea that always going to be happy, et cetera. What I'm saying is opposite of that. What it's saying is that let's recognize the, you know, what the light, what is the light and be grateful for it. And we're human, we're going through this journey. Each one of us has a journey and throughout it, we can transform that journey in unique and profound ways. When we look at the abundance of that and then that leads to an abundant mindset, which then leads to the calling of more of that into one's life.

SAMIA: Yeah, no, I thank you for bringing up the toxic positivity thing because it is a problem. And I think also though that thing, my where I am at in my life now, I'm actually striving. I like for me it's spiritual goal to cultivate the gratitude attitude. Let's just call it every moment, to experience that sense of gratitude and the happiness and the joy and the peace that comes with it. Experience that every moment regardless of what's going on in my life. And so that is a goal that I am striving for and…

SOHALE: ..beautiful.

SAMIA: And it has nothing to do with toxic positivity, you know, because as I was saying, what happens is, and what leads to toxic positivity is when you go into denial and suppression, and you're like, no, I just, I don't want to see this. I don't want to deal with this. I'm going to pretend as far as I can that everything's fine and, you know, dandy and this and that. But that's not what the gratitude perspective is about.

Gratitude... When you are cultivating like gratitude, you're like, okay, I'm looking straight at the facts, whatever is happening in my life, you know, and I accept that these are the facts. I'm never going to deny them. I'm not going to run away from them. But what is the meaning that I give to these facts? What does it mean about, you know, am I safe, do I have enough help and support? Am I loved or not? You know, like, what is the meaning, do I give to these facts? And you know, that is where you know, when you have gratitude, the meaning that you give to the facts of your life. I mean, it's so beautiful that, you know, you, it just naturally focuses you on what you do have rather than what you don't have. And it focuses, helps you see how, help you see those pathways to feeling better, help you see those pathways to getting the help that you need, the support that you need, and alleviating whatever the challenge that you may feel in the moment, you know, so it's a very, very different phenomena than toxic positivity.

SOHALE: Yeah, absolutely. And it's a positive slippery slope in the sense that, well, maybe you start... Like a lot of folks, they start and it's like, well, it's like, you know, health or this or that. Like a lot of people, they just think they kind of like, I don't know what else to say. And one of the things that we do is we love to give ideas. Like, is it a pen that you're holding? You know, is it like, it the tea that you get to drink? Is it... Because all of that really is. And you know, what's so wonderful is I feel that, you know, enlightenment is not, we like to think in culture generally because of how our stories and movies and etc. It's a one moment thing in life. You know, something happens, you're enlightened, bang, your life changes. And that does happen. There's moments that that do happen. Having said that, there's also moments where enlightenment is the ever expanding consciousness of mercy and gratitude is a part of that, of expanding our consciousness of mercy. Can you think of that? Well, what does that mean, Sohale, that's kind of, you know, deep. Well, you know, if we said we talked earlier about lovers and being seen. Well, say you took, you know, you know how if someone's in love with someone else or two lovers, they're being thoughtful to one another. Oh, you know, maybe even how they hold each other's hand with a certain level of pressure or something like that, that level of thoughtfulness. Well then what is the divine doing? Oh, I gave you breath so you can speak. Oh, you know, like whatever. What I gave you legs to be able to walk. Because I want you to walk somewhere. I want you to say something that is, you know, when you're talking about wanting to experience that for yourself, I feel like that's the context, if I may say... Be so bold to say that that's the context of that relationship. And there's a beautiful story. Sad, but beautiful. By the given that we're in Ramadan, I will share this, which is that the Prophet of Islam, peace be upon him, he, you know, he loved his wife Khadijah, peace be upon her, very much right. And so she... In one year, they call it the year of grief. Abu Talib, which was his uncle, who was a big protector, he passes away, and his beloved wife passes away. And so he goes to a city called Taife, and he goes there to preach because he's like, maybe I can convince people in this message. And so he goes there, and the elders, in fact, they go and tell the slaves and the children to go and stone him as he walks through the street. So he's bloodied and he's beaten by the stones, and he... From there he goes and seeks refuge in the. Or in some orchard nearby, because it goes there and sits there and he comes up with this beautiful prayer. And it's so interesting. You think about it. In that moment of prayer, could someone say, grateful, have gratitude? Like, who's gonna say... You just went through, you know, this incredible grief of people who loved you and supported you in so many ways in your loneliness in life, and now you just went and you gave this message and you've been. But kids were stoning you. You're physically harmed. And the prayer is a little bit long, but not a little bit long, but it's a little bit of a paragraph. But in essence, he says something that's really wonderful, which is like, as long as you're pleased with me, I care not.

SAMIA: Talking about God.

SOHALE: Yeah, he's saying to God.

SAMIA: God is pleased.

SOHALE: Yeah. He's like, you know, you're the Lord of the weak. And. And that you're the Lord of me, too. And, you know, and as long as you're pleased with me, yeah, I'm content.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SOHALE: That's all I, you know, and. Because the light of your face, you know, I seek refuge in the light of your face from this world and the next. And, you know, not everyone's spiritual. I understand. Like, I think gratitude needs to be there to improve the one's mind and body. But for those who are closer to who would like to be closer to their spirits or that this speaks to them, it's important to say that what is it ultimately that we should be grateful for? You know, how do we actually contextualize gratitude? And this prayer does a beautiful job of showing that which is ultimately what really matters.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, as a Muslim, what I've been realizing more and more is that for sure, Islam teaches us the gratitude is the way... It's like if you're feeling down, the very first thing, the moment that you realize, oh, I actually want to feel better and I want to do something about it, you start with gratitude. Because, you know, sometimes you're just so down, you don't want to hear, like, gratitude. Even the thought of being grateful is, like, too much. But the moment you want to be able to start feeling better, to do something to help you feel better, you have to basically start with gratitude. And, like, as a Muslim, one of the ways that we are taught to do that is by saying alhamdulillah, which is all praise and thanks be to Allah. And a lot of times, you know, you know, like, well, what does that do? Well, it's like a trigger for your mind. You know, like, if you're thanking God, there must be something to thank God for. So what is that? And so it just, you know, it's that trigger. And that reminder that there's always something to be thankful for. So what is that for you right now? And like, for me, as a Muslim, one thing that I always have to be thankful for is the presence of God in my life. And actually, when you really begin to sink yourself into that realization, you're like, just like, how you shared in this prayer from the Prophet Muhammad, like, do you really need anything else? If you can really realize that God is with you, then what else do we really need?

SOHALE: Yeah.

SAMIA: Because God is the source of everything that we need. And so the moment we connect with that consciousness of, oh, God is seeing me. And hopefully I'm able to see God's presence in my life more clearly in the, clearly, too. But at the very least, I know that we go back to the idea of feeling seen, feeling loved. You know, if I can remember that God is there, here, right now, seeing me and not just seeing me like a disinterested…

SOHALE: Yeah.

SAMIA: ..entity. But, you know, as a being that loves me, that cares for me, that sustains me, that protect me. So then, you know, it's absolutely... You know, I mean, like, you can't have that realization and still feel so down in the dumps.

SOHALE: Yeah, for sure. That's beautifully said. And one of the things you mentioned there too, I think that's applicable to anyone with any background, religious background or non-religious background, is the psychological anchor, right.

Basically what you said is that there's a psychological anchor that as a reminder. And I think what ends up happening with so many of us, millions of us in fact, is that we're moving through life. We're just going, you know.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SOHALE: Day after day. And so the question is then what is the psychological anchor for you? That can just be that reminder for you? For me, it was scheduled, sending an email. And now for hundreds and thousands of people that use soul, it's getting the text messages. But you know, maybe that's something else for someone else. Maybe it's a morning routine, maybe some people do it at night, you know, so  it's discovering what that is for ourselves and being conscious about what are the anchors in our lives and what are the, what narratives in our own beings are they speaking to?

SAMIA: Right. Yeah. And don't just depend on one anchor. Have lots.

SOHALE: Yeah. I feel like all the anchors are telling a story about who we are ultimately. Right. And that goes then to beliefs, right. Because that story is based upon what we believe to be true about ourselves or believe to be who we are, right. And so we then start saying, okay, well, if I am this, then that, right. If I care about who I am, then I'm probably going to care about how I dress or how I take care of my body or how, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right…

SAMIA: Yeah.

SOHALE: It's like that belief then, you know, prospers or blossoms into, you know, into a garden of love, of self love.

SAMIA: Ah.. Oh, Sohale, okay you keep bringing up stuff that I want to dig deeper into and if I ask you another question, I know we're going to go way, way, way, way over time. And I know I promised you I'd wrap up with an hour. So I just stopped myself from asking you any more questions, except to ask you if you have any last thoughts that you want to share.

SOHALE: I mean, what I would just say is I'm really grateful for this conversation with you. I thought it was very wonderful and it was very meaningful. And thank you so much for the space to allow me to be here for who you are. And if folks want to try out soul, they can. It's on, you know, bringsoul.life. You can add the link to the show notes. I'm happy to gift it to folks if they want to use it, but thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to chat with you.

SAMIA: Thank you so much, Sohale. And my last reminder is your audience.

Please make sure you check the show notes because yes, I will be dropping so things in there so you can check out Soul and you know, just, yeah, get some help and support in terms of building your gratitude habit and so forth. And you know, it's whenever you're ready for it. So please make sure you check the show notes and until we connect next time. I just wish you lot and lots of peace and joy... :)