How To Overcome Fear.

How To Overcome Fear. With Daniel Vasile & Samia Bano

#ChainsOfFear holding you back from living #yourbestlife?

Listen now to this interview with Daniel Vasile, #MasterPractitioner in Neuro-Linguistic Programming (#NLP) to understand the root causes of fear and how to #overcomefear now!

About Daniel:

Daniel Vasile is a Master Practitioner in Neuro-Linguistic Programming with years of experience in #EMOTIONALMASTERY. In the last 15 years, he has helped Hundreds of People in several countries to MASTER THEIR OWN EMOTIONS, FREEING THEMSELVES FROM SUFFERING!

Daniel is the creator of The Free4Life platform, i.e. the place where you come to GET RID OF SUFFERING such as: Depression, Generalized Anxiety and Panic Attacks and many others.

Learn more and connect with Daniel at: https://maiestrie.freeforlife.ro

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#overcomingfear #overcomingfears #overcomefears #overcomingfearandanxiety #fearless #fearlessheart #feartofaith #feartofreedom #fearisnotmyfuture #fearlessliving #TransformFear

Here's the audio version of this episode:

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Full Video Transcript

SAMIA: Okay, so... Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry! It's very, very good to be with you again. And we have a very cool guest with us, so I know you will be so happy you have joined us. And our very cool guest today is Daniel Vasile, who is a Master Practitioner in Neuro Linguistic Programming. Welcome, Daniel…

DANIEL: Hello. Happy to be here…

SAMIA: Oh, you're so welcome. And Daniel, please tell us more about who you are and what you do.

DANIEL: My name is Daniel, as you just said. I live in Romania, in Brasov. And as you just said, I'm a Master Practitioner in NLP for short, Neuro Linguistic Programming. And I had a normal childhood. Everything is fine... No, it's been a lot of pain because that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I had a lot of practice and the practice made me stronger, helped me train my emotional muscles. And I'm doing this because it's so cool and so fun. You get to see people change and have results within hours, maybe minutes. And that's really, really fun to see… when you see somebody having suffering for five years, two years, ten years, and you see within an hour the change... Yeah, this is fun... So I'm a guy about fun, about smiling. I have bad days sometimes, but I don't stay there. So I love to laugh, I love to have fun. I love to jump, to run, workout, to paint, listen to music. So it's all about fun.

SAMIA: Yes. I love that… you're speaking to the right audience because we are all about fun and easy…

DANIEL: Yeah, why not?

SAMIA: Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing a little bit of, you know, your own journey… and what you just mentioned about sometimes you have bad days but you don't stay there long... That is, I think, such an important idea for people to understand. And not just idea, but that it's a fact that, you know, you can learn how to be in control of your own mental, emotional wellness. You can choose to be happy. You don't have to choose to stay in a mindset that you find unhappy or miserable or even, you know, difficult in the sense that… difficult is a judgment, difficult is a perspective and we can choose to shift that route. So, ah, this is so cool... So tell me a little bit about, you mentioned… like, you hinted at, you know, that you have had, like, difficulties in your own life and of course you help clients with them. What would you say are like some core challenges that you see, that you work on with your people.

DANIEL: Well, the most important thing, for example, starting from my journey, my most... My first, not the most… my first difficult time was when I had 104 kilos. And I really lazy and fat, doing nothing, eating everything, smoking. I wasn't really a fan of drinking, but I was eating a lot of sugar and stuff. That was okay. It wasn't… but it seemed okay... After that came depression, which I didn't know it was depression. And from that, I started to learn myself… Okay, this isn't good to feel. And I started to try to exercise and to focus on myself. And the most important thing going through it, which I see in people… the last year, I think I spoke with at least 500 people. And in common, they have fear... And fear… Fear is the elephant in the room. Fear is the strongest… They don't call it fear. They call it doubt. They call it dislike. They call it hate. But it's still fear... Anxiety, panic attack… but it's fear. It's all fear... And fear is the most... To make a conclusion in the fear, the fear of death. Most people think they are going to die, and they don't… Well, eventually, maybe it happens, but it doesn't happen today. It won't happen tomorrow, it won't happen next month. At least not from what I know. I haven't spoken to anybody… I speak to people second time, which I can get in contact with, everybody's alive, nobody died. So it's just the fear of it. So, yes, the answer to your question is fear. And that's strong.

SAMIA: Yes. Yes. I must say, you know, I agree with you in that, in my experience also, both with myself and the people that I work with, usually we do end up finding fear at the bottom of whatever struggle we are having. And, I mean, even when it comes to the fear of death, you know, it's really fear in some ways… Like, what do you think death is? You know, it's interesting… Like, I'm a Muslim, and for a lot of, like, Muslim people, you know, we believe in God, we believe in an afterlife, etcetera... So we develop an attitude about death. We develop a... Like, we have belief about death that actually, you know, death is just one phase in our life. And our life is not just the life that we live in this body. It's much more than that. And so I have come to believe that, you know, death in itself is nothing to be afraid of. It's not a tragedy. It's not anything bad. Where death can be a tragedy, for example, is… you may have lived in a way that is tragic, and then you die in a way that is tragic without, for example, having gained a sense of your life meaning and purpose and, you know, having lived in suffering because of that or for some other reason. Or death may be a tragedy because of how you died, due to injustice or oppression, things like that. So there's a lot of tragedy and even fear that can surround death in those kinds of contexts. But death in itself, I don't think, is a tragedy or a problem. It's just like, from a faith perspective, it's just a returning actually to our source. So it can, from that perspective, even be joyful. And so, you know, like, for me, what I see with people who even have these beliefs that I do, but then still fearing death, and oftentimes then it becomes an issue of, like, other fears that you have. Like, maybe... I don't know if I keep framing things in a religious context… You know, the example might be... Sorry?

DANIEL: Fear of darkness…

SAMIA: Yes. Fear of darkness.

DANIEL: Fear of heights.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.

DANIEL: Most popular…

SAMIA: Yes, yes. You know, and just the unknown, the uncertainty of what might be.

DANIEL: That exists actually, you know.

SAMIA: Yes, exactly. Exactly... So it's so interesting… what... Yeah... I was trying to think of… because you are an NLP master practitioner, you reminded me of one of my mentors who was also an NLP master practitioner.

DANIEL: Okay.

SAMIA: Yeah. And he used to say that one of the root causes of fear that we have is related to a feeling of abandonment.

DANIEL: Yes. Fear of loss…

SAMIA: Yes. Fear of loss or feeling loss, like that you have already experienced… some form of loss. I'm wondering... Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead…

DANIEL: Last night I had a live on TikTok and I talked about this and I asked people, what do you think fear is?

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: And you can imagine, like, comments coming, flowing in, 2000 people in the live and people saying, I'm afraid of people... somebody said, he/she, I don't know who it was… It was a big name, many letters and numbers. So I don't know if it was he or she. So she... He or she was afraid of people. And I said, you're not afraid of the people. You're afraid of the harm that can come from the experience with the people.

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: You're not even afraid of that. I know about two fear. I heard somebody said once that we have only two fears. Let's say we're afraid of dying, but there are only two fears. Even you, me, it doesn't matter. We name it differently. Only two fears… is the fear of loss and the fear of not being loved. That's it. That's it…

SAMIA: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so fear of loss and fear of not being loved. Interesting... I wonder if there's even a relationship there… and that one that… in fact, in some ways, those are also very connected. The fear of loss and the fear of not being loved. Yeah, yeah, yeah…

DANIEL: And I gave the example of, if there is a dog, the dog is very angry, and the dog wants to bite you, to bite your leg. You're not afraid of the dog. You're afraid of losing your leg or losing something… like having pain. And because you have pain, you lose the pleasure. You're not losing anything. You're actually not as comfortable. So the brain works all the time to keep us comfortable. That's the brain's job, to keep us safe and comfortable and alive, not to make us happy.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: And the fear comes in... Adrenaline, it pumps up… so you can act in a way to get away from the danger. The fear itself is inside. And it's a word. Fear is just a word... Fear itself is... Doesn't exist. It's just a feeling... in essence.

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: ..That, you know, we name things, we label them, and then we make the label itself real, and then that's what life is. No, it's not... But you need to look, you know, between the lines or between the letters.

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: ...it's really deep, but think about it to give it some time. And you don't give it time in the fear, in the experience… get away, you finish the experience. And then once your system calms down, then you can analyze and say, okay, that was… that was kind of foolish. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to work on that. And, you know, think through instead of just leave it.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.

DANIEL: Does it make sense?

SAMIA: Yes. Okay. Okay. So I really like that example that you gave in the context of how a fear could be, a fear of loss. Tell me more about the fear of not being loved. How can that manifest, like, for somebody? And why do we have such a fear of not being loved?

DANIEL: It's not even that. It goes even deeper. When we get born, we come on this planet…

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: …through our mother’s womb… I say the word wom okay... So we come into this word. We come here. As soon as we come here, the nervous system is… you know, in the mother's womb, it's very warm there. Everything is perfect. You don't have to do anything. You just receive. Everything's beautiful, and it's so wet and warm. And then we come out into this world. Everything is cold... Everybody's screaming… or something happens and the nervous system receives a shock because you see all the lights… it's like, coming out and like, oh, what's happening? It's cold... You know, you get the doctor. The doctor touches you, maybe the doctor slaps you, or who knows what happens. So in that experience, we experience the fear… but not the fear… but the body. This nervous system, the central nervous system, reacts to the noises and everything through the senses. And because of the reflex, the fear gets installed in the body. It just gets… it's there. So this is really paradoxical and maybe confusing, but, you know, people can bear with us. You can give it time. So when we feel the fear, we feel the fear as a reflex, the body activates its system of protection and then we decide the reason for the fear.

SAMIA: Yeah…

DANIEL: But that happens within a heartbeat. Even faster than that. It's like, done. It's your fault because x, y, z, I'm just afraid of losing your love, losing your whatever. And we say things, but we don't say it like that. We just argue and point the finger and so on and so forth. Yeah. And then after we calm down… Listen, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. And so on…

SAMIA: Yes, yes. I'm glad that you highlighted that experience… You know, at first the body feels something, and then we give it an interpretation with our mind...

DANIEL: And it happens automatically…

SAMIA: …give it a meaning. Yes, yes. And that is such an important distinction or aspect of our experience to understand because the interpretation that we give, actually, it's what will either reinforce the feelings or it will help create change in the feelings once we have time to reflect on things. But also the interpretation that we give is also what keeps the story moving in a particular direction. You know. I mean, depending on the story we tell ourselves, we behave differently.

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah. Even if you listen to the words, it's an in-terpretation. So we in-terpret. It's not out-terpretation, it's in-terpretation. And then once we… Oh, look, that fire works... So when once the mind interprets the sound or whatever happens through the reflex, then we re-present the whole story again. So we re-present it and we feel the feeling. And it's so sweet because it's a hormone. The hormone equals drug and drug equals addiction, and we get addicted to it.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: And we don't even know. All we have to do is change that.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: And that's all there is. It's not easy, but it's doable.

SAMIA: Yes. Okay, so tell me more. How do we even begin to change that?

DANIEL: So in a word, in a... In a name, all of this story, I've just said, we just talked about… it's a neuro association. So the brain associates the darkness with danger, period. Whereas in my case, I changed that... Darkness equals fun, equals happiness. How? So all you have to do, knowing that all the senses happen through the body, through the nervous system, instead of being afraid… Afraid? What is afraid? Feeling fear… you have a pattern, a physical pattern when you're afraid… you have a pattern. I have a pattern. So in my case, for example, if I would… because I was afraid of the dark when I was little... so that's why how I changed that... So the way I did it is through action… acting physically as if I am happy when it's dark. So I go into the dark and I pretend I'm happy. Or I take a friend or somebody that I can be with and be happy in the dark. Literally acting as if… in the dark. When you act physically as if, the biochemistry changes, when the biochemistry changes, it becomes an addiction, a different addiction. And then through practice, of course… you can't do it just… you can do it one time, but it has to be very strong. So if we would be afraid of the dark right now, and we go to get into the dark and we're afraid, we have to really, really act happy, to really shock the nervous system. Like a scale of one to 10, 10 at least. So the body starts to shake, and that's the reset, and we change the neural association. So we dissociate danger with darkness, and we associate happiness with darkness. And then in the future, when it's dark, we'll just feel good. It's as simple as that.

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: It's difficult to do, but it's a process… that what I do with my clients. But you need to make it in a way that's surprising. You can't just prepare… because this, the nervous system and the reptilian brain knows everything you're planning. And when you want to do it… you're gonna do this, don't you trick me into that, not gonna happen... So you need to be spontaneous.

SAMIA: Yes, yes, I hear you. Because there is actually research that shows that when you act in a certain way that is different from your usual behavior or experience in that condition, for example… and specifically in the context of trying to create change… your mindset is very, very important. Because if you believe that you are just lying to yourself, that you are just doing something where you're just putting on an act and you don't, you know, it actually ends up... So, for example, if someone acts happy… for example, a lot of depressed people will try to hide the fact that they're depressed for various reasons. And so they act happy. But it doesn't end up making them feeling happier because the underlying mindset is… I'm just acting, I'm putting on this act. And so then acting happy actually makes them feel more depressed. But if you have a different mindset of, you know, I need to act happy, even though I'm not. But my understanding is that I have the power to change how I feel by acting in a different way. And I'm making this choice knowingly, deliberately, because I know that I can choose to be happy, etcetera... And then you act happy, even when you're sad, then that is when you begin to see the positive change in how you're feeling. And you're actually able to cultivate and, you know, bring up that happiness in your, in your feelings.

DANIEL: Exactly. Yeah. Before this, I want, I would like to specify that before all of this, one needs to want it. I mean, you need to want to do that… because if you don't want to do, you're not going to do it. And you're going to say to people, act as if you believe. Act as if you're really happy and pretend you're happy, literally with your body. They go like, no… that's not going to work… because bring everything in your body, everything that you have in, and you're basically unlimited… But one needs to know what one wants. So you need to know what you want and you need to know why…

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: I want to be happy... Let's talk about the fear of the dark… But this applies to any fear. I'm giving the example of the dark because it's common and it's kind of easy to change. But it can be fear of flying, fear of elevators, fear of clowns, anything... It can be any… fear of spiders... So it's coming, see? So let's say you're afraid of the dark. If you're afraid of the dark, you need to know why you want to change that association. You already want to know… I want to be indifferent, or I want to be courageous, or I want to be strong or happy in the dark. And then why? Because I want to be strong for my wife. I don't know, something… but it has to be strong. And then you'll be motivated to do it. Otherwise... No. Another thing I really want to really specify this… When you ask somebody what they don't… what they want, they tell you everything they don't want.

SAMIA: Aha... Yes.

DANIEL: This is one reason why people don't change anything. It's not the reason, but it's one of the many. But it's one strong reason. For example, I ask people in the consultation, when I have a consultation… okay, what do you want? I don't want to feel these things anymore. I don't want to... Okay, you told me what you don't want. Tell me what you want instead. And they go like, huh? So people think they know what they want, but they have no clue.

SAMIA: Yeah…

DANIEL: And I've been there. That's how I know…

SAMIA: Right. Me too. Me too... Actually, I remember this very specifically. One time someone was asking me about what do I want? And at that time, you know, I wasn't the Happiness Expert that I'm now, but I was going through my journey of trying to help myself heal and be more happy, etcetera... But, you know, at that time, my focus was really on what I didn't want… and what I didn't want... I was very clear that I wanted to stop suffering. I wanted to stop feeling bad. I wanted to stop feeling the, you know, the anxiety that I used to live with, the anger that I used to live with, the loneliness that I used to live it... I had all of these things that I was living with, and they were causing great sense of suffering for me. I was like, I want the suffering to stop... I just can't take it anymore. And, and when it was like, well, what do you want? I was like, this is what I want. I don't want to suffer.

DANIEL: Yeah... You don't want to suffer…

SAMIA: And I know nothing else was even making sense to me in terms of what do I really want... I was just like, I am clear. I don't want to suffer. I don't want to be angry anymore. I don't want to be so lonely anymore…

DANIEL: It doesn't make sense... In a way, it makes sense, but it's just not going to get you what you want because the focus is on what you don't want... Where attention goes, energy flows. You're going to get more… you're going to get more of what you don't want because you're saying it. And that's the way the mind works. And the biggest challenge that I have is explaining this again and again and again in many, many forms, like loads of forms I can, so people can get it… because we grow up... and I talked to people from many countries, not just Romania… and they think, this is it. Okay, if this is it, why aren't you happy?

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: So… and we all have challenges like that. We all have different challenges, and we say the same thing. I don't want that…

SAMIA: Yes, yes… I know… Like, you know, for me... And I... It was very difficult to know what I wanted because… it just… for me, it felt… like, I was so... It was even difficult for me to access the memories for me of the time before I developed that strong suffering... Yes, and so it was difficult to even remember those times. And so to think about what I wanted in positive terms felt so difficult. And so actually what ended up happening was, to even think about wanting joy and happiness was too much. It was like I couldn't... I couldn't really want that. My first goal had to end up becoming that, I just want to feel calm... just feel calm. I just want to feel calm, you know? And once I learned how to feel calm, and then it was like, oh, I wonder if that's it, you know, or is there something more?

DANIEL: Yeah, but it's the state we're in... The state we’re in at any moment, defines the thoughts. So if you have a bad state, let's call it a bad state, regardless of the state, you're not going to think happy thoughts, automatically, because of the state. And the state comes from the central nervous system, and the emotions are stronger than the thoughts. They dictate the thoughts. This is what mostly most people don't get. They do psychology, and psychology is just thinking. It's strong... But if you have a bad state, just thinking positive will help in the longer time period, longer timeframe. So you have to be patient. And when you're fearful and when you're feeling guilt or you're suffering, five minutes is five days. So you want to change the state first…

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: …And then think through, and then think of, what do I want? Because if you're like, oh, what do I want? I don't want this. That's the reflex…

SAMIA: Yes…

DANIEL: ...get out of that state. Do something. Drink water, take a cold shower, go outside… Something completely different, which is interrupting the old pattern, the physical pattern, like dissociating. And then what? Once… you might get dizzy, because when you shock the body, like, whoa, what just happened? Then you're confused for a few seconds, and then… maybe 10 seconds… and then you're free to think.

SAMIA: Yeah. Yes. Yes…

DANIEL: You need to act... That's the one… That's the…

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: Take home.

SAMIA: Yes. I think people constantly underestimate just how powerful our emotions are. And the fact that they have more power than our thoughts is something that I think is… it’s an insight that… It's almost like, you know, there's like... because… I wonder if it's partly that we live in such a male-dominated culture. Like, pretty much in most cultures, it's very male dominated culture. And in these male dominated cultures, feelings are actually undervalued, they are ignored. Like, even being aware of your feelings, paying attention to your feelings, it's something that's looked down upon. And there's emphasis on your brain, on your thinking, rationality… and this sort of push towards, you know… actually thinking that someone who focuses on their mind, on their rational thinking self, is somehow acting in a way that's more superior. I mean, I've seen this kind of attitude so much. And I think it's to our own detriment, because, really, the reality of our lives is that our emotions are not only extremely powerful, they're also extremely necessary. And if we ignore them, if we underestimate their power, it's to our own detriment, and it's just making change more difficult for ourselves.

DANIEL: True, yeah. And we have the... this… let's call it a habit. It's a habit. It's a reflex. It's our reflex as human beings to think that it's a separation. It's like bad and good. And there's this battle between bad and good, evil and good, and light and darkness and things like that. And they separate it, and they call it bad emotions and good emotions. I tend to say... I always say there are no bad and good emotions. There are emotions you want to feel and emotions that you don't want to feel. And then the reflex comes in and says, yes, but I don't want to feel those emotions, because... And they start to give you that long story why they don't want…  Okay. And they stay into the because it's a story, it tends to last more than two, three, five minutes. And in those two, three, five minutes, if it's a negative story… because usually it is a negative story or a sad story, why they're going through this… in that storytelling moment, or five minutes, everything amplifies, and they feel it's stronger and stronger and stronger... Why? Why is this happening to me? Why and why and who and when? Where did I go wrong? And they're just in that loop of suffering. And you need to... It's hard… what I tend to do, for example, if I catch myself in that loop… because before you catch yourself, you're kind of like you're in hypnosis. You don't know you're doing it… but the moment you find you catch yourself doing it, boom. Do something to shock your system. I do burpees... The second I feel it and I notice it, I stand up, boom… go do 10, 20 burpees, as many as I can until I can't do anymore, I shut the system and interrupt that old pattern of thinking. And what that does is next time, when something happens, because things happen in life. Life happens. You don't program everything… When things happen again, I tend to go within two minutes max, and then, boom... All of a sudden, I just, I'm not angry anymore. It just changes. Because I train my system, after two minutes or three minutes, as long as I can, to be happy.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: Somebody pisses me off, in about two or three minutes I feel good.

I'm just...  So I can think… But it's training. That's why it's emotional mastery, because a master does things.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: A master does not think things. He does it. So you need to do. It's simple... It's not easy, but it's simple.

SAMIA: Yes. And it becomes easier over time. And definitely you make it fun.

So it's definitely fun. And it becomes easier. So…

DANIEL: ...it has to be fun.

SAMIA: Yes, yes.

DANIEL: Because if you make it like, Okay, I'm happy, I'm happy. No, no, you need to, you need to do... Even if you, if you remember my face when you want to get happier or people watching this… they need to have something that can, like, make them laugh in the moment because that distracts them from the… whatever they are bothered by. And the cortisol levels drop 20%, 30% as much as possible, and then the system comes down and they can think things through. But I laugh, again, good thing you said it… When I do the burpees, I'm like this (grinning). I'm doing them like this because this action produces dopamine.

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: Activates the system in the brain, and it gives you a little bit of dopamine. So when dopamine interacts with adrenaline and cortisol, it's not anger anymore. It's enthusiasm, it's energy, it's something else. You feel different. You feel the rush, but it's not anger anymore. You transformed it. It's completely a different circuit of thoughts. So it's just acting in the moment. Doesn't matter what you do. You can jump around like a bunny.

SAMIA: Yes, yes. I love the jumping, actually. It's one of my… one of my teachers, she said, do happiness jumps. And I really love to learn... I really learned to love the jumping.

DANIEL: Okay, you learn to love the jumping.

SAMIA: Yes…

DANIEL: Not everybody loves jumping.

SAMIA: And it's like, very interesting, you know, with the jumps, for example… even if you cannot physically stand up and do it, but you're sitting, for example, if you're in a place where you cannot physically get up and jump, or you have a physical constraint because of which you cannot, you know, jump up and down in a normal context… But if you imagine yourself jumping, if you move your body, even to whatever extent that you can, sitting in your chair, for example, and you just imagine that that experience, it begins to have a shift, and then it begins to create a change in how you're feeling.

DANIEL: Definitely because you shift your focus.

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: …focus… and that's the second pattern. The first pattern is changing the physical pattern of either suffering, depression, sadness, anxiety, whatever people have these days. So whatever you're, whatever you're feeling, you're going to have a physical pattern. If you're feeling a headache, you're going to go like this. If you're feeling depression, you might go like this. So you have a physical pattern. And we've just talked about the physical pattern… and you said, you just said the second pattern. There are only three patterns. Everybody has only three patterns. The second one is the focus... So when you, if you imagine yourself jumping around, like, super focused on that, you're not focusing on what you have, you're not focusing on the reason you're suffering, because you're focusing on jumping, mentally.

SAMIA: Yeah. Yeah.

DANIEL: And that shifts... That's not as effective as the physical act, but it's 95%. So the physical is 100% and the focus is 95…

SAMIA: Yes.

DANIEL: ...pretty much the same thing.

SAMIA: Yes. I mean, that is so important to understand also, because I have also seen people make this... You know, like, so for example, I was talking with somebody and they were talking about exercise and the power of exercise as a mood-boosting thing… that you engage when you want to improve your mood, you exercise. Exercising helps improve your mood. I mean, there's a lot of research that shows that, but it's with the caveat about, like, you have to understand that, you know, even if you're exercising, but your focus is not on the exercise, your focus is still, you know, on whatever it was that was making you angry or miserable, et cetera… No matter… I mean, you can exercise and it'll help a little bit, but it won't help as much as you really want it to help or that it can help. So…

DANIEL: …it's gonna come back. It's gonna come back… because I've encountered people that asked me, like, because, you know, sometimes nine... let's say seven out of ten people I talk to, like, 70% don't exercise. So that's easy. You just exercise.

Done, problem solved, right. But I talk to some people that they do exercise… Now you say, okay, "I exercise, I do this, I do that. Why is this happening to me?" Okay, tell me, how much are you exercising? And then they start to tell me. "I run for like an hour every morning. I do weights in the afternoon. I do this..." Okay, that's too much exercise because… And I've been there… so I had panic attacks because I was over-exercising. So that's over-training. You get too much serotonin. You either don't get enough or you get too much. So you need to be balanced. You can't just, you know, do… Okay, you do push-ups. Okay, you can't just do push ups Monday to Sunday, seven days a week, 24 hours a day and so on... No, you need to take a break and change things. You need to yoga, breathing, other things. So people get caught up. I got caught up on one specific thing. I was doing calisthenics and pull ups and dips and stuff, and I was doing only that… obviously… and you get the pattern.

SAMIA: Yes. Thank you for highlighting that because absolutely, that is another thing that I have seen a lot in my practice also that, you know, for me, I talk about the fact that there are at least five key pillars to our mental health. And you have to be practicing each of those five pillars in order to… like, if you really want mastery over your own mental health, but you are... Like most people, they're doing some things that obviously help them and that are good for them and so keep doing that. But to the extent that you are not in control of your mental health, it's probably because you're missing some of these pillars. So you're doing some things fine, but you're missing other things that you also need. And so, again, going back to what are you… to have the awareness of, what are you missing that you need to add to create better balance in your life. Yeah.

DANIEL: You know, what you have to do is be an observer. Like, see, go back. Okay, what have I done physically? Nothing. Then do something. Okay, I've done this… too much. Do something else. Do the opposite... For example, if you do too much of strength training, then go for swimming, do some cardio, do some yoga, do stretching, meditate… do other things that are opposite of that. People go from weights to dumbbells. That's not an intelligent approach because it's still resistance training. I've done that. That's how I know. And it's still building up the same hormone. It's not in the same way, but it's the same type, the same system. So take a break and then do something else. But you said something interesting, like, if you focus on the problem while you work out, that's a big problem… because the brain is going to associate working out with being, whatever, depressed. And I literally talked to, like, today's Friday… I talked about to somebody, Tuesday... Yeah, Tuesday. No, Wednesday... Wednesday. So I talked to somebody Wednesday, and he, he was saying that he does a lot of exercise. Okay, how much of what and when? He was doing a little bit of everything, anytime, and he was having panic attacks during or after them. I said, okay, stop and be disciplined. Choose one that makes you feel good and stick with it. If you get the feeling that it doesn't make you feel good, change it, but keep changing it being disciplined… not just change it whenever and run away. Being afraid of exercising. Because he got to being exercising. He's good now, by the way. So he started being afraid of exercising all together. Exercise equals bad. No... One exercise specifically equals bad.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: Not even that. It's just the fear of exercising might do this.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: And again, the whole story. Again, the loop.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes... Okay. So you had mentioned that there are, forgetting the terminology you used… There were three... You mentioned… So there's three patterns. Yes... So there's a pattern of behavior. There's a focus pattern. And what's the third pattern?

DANIEL: Thinking and beliefs…

SAMIA: Aha. Yes.

DANIEL: Like, the thinking is actually… this is paradoxical because the third pattern comes from the other two. But some would... Look, balloons. This is zoom doing that. Okay, I'm not doing that… Yeah. So some people have the power. Some people have the power to change their feeling. And this is like, really next level… to change the feelings, just thinking differently… But do you see that how you change your thinking is changing your focus... That's the second… You can change the order if you like, but these three are linked in very strongly. And the most, the strongest one that works for everybody is the physical pattern… because everybody, the second, they move the body differently, they feel differently, because they don't have an association… association in the brain with that new movement. And the brain literally does the new association in the moment. And because there's no pain reference for the new association, you can make a new association whatever you want. You can smile… hey, hey, hey… You can do whatever you want. So the brain interprets that association with the environment you're in, or whatever happens with that "Hey, hey, hey" feeling. And through practice, you reprogram the body and then the mind. So it's from the body to the mind, not from the mind to the body.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.

DANIEL: Changing the mind first, which is fine. It's just not as fast.

SAMIA: Yes. You know, I wonder if that is one of the… or some of the wisdom behind why so many religious traditions tend to have a focus on physical rituals… because, for example, I can think… I'm thinking of three main religions that immediately popped in my head. The first one that actually popped in my head was Judaism… because they have really strong emphasis on your actions, on what you do. And then the second one that popped up very strongly for me is Hinduism, because they also have a very, very strong emphasis on rituals and practice and what you do. And third, of course… Muslim/Islam… there's also, you know, I mean, for example, our prayers that we are taught, the ritual prayers are very movement-based. You know, this is true also in many ways for Hinduism and Judaism. Like, you're... There's a lot of movement involved with the way that you do ritual prayers. And, in fact, you know, it's, like, interesting that… like, if/when you're teaching, for example, kids about how to pray, you don't get into the philosophy of what the prayer means or, you know, things like that. You focus on teaching them the movement. And I think part of the wisdom is that, you know, the way that you move has an impact on the way that you're feeling and the way that you're thinking. And the movement is the easiest to teach. And, you know, and so if you can really get the movement and begin to feel into, then you can begin to, like, really focus and feel into the, into the movement. And so then it helps to create that shift and change that you want in the direction that the prayers meant to take you.

DANIEL: Obviously. Well, it's for people that don't see, which are blind, obviously… the other senses get amplified, like the smell, the touch, the hearing. So, but through the sight, at least through the seeing, when kids see things… in the prefrontal cortex, we have the mirror neurons. And because I'm doing, if I do in some, I'm doing something right now with energy, your mirror neurons, mirror my movement. If it's bad, if it's good, it doesn't matter. It will mirror them unless you are conscious of it and you reject whatever doesn't do you any good, which harms you, everything will happen. And kids see it and they just do it. They don't think through it. Like you just said, they don't question it. They don't have a reference for that. So it's a lot easier to see something and copy. You don't even… Many times. I used to do personal training for many years, and whenever I teach exercises that are very complex, because that's what I used to teach… And people would, the best reflex, which I had at the beginning as well… oh, I'm really bad with coordination. And they always go, man, you're not bad at coordination. You just haven't done it yet. And whenever they do things, because it's new, the brain doesn't have a coordination set up yet. But they don't look at my body moving. They just ignore my body… seeing it one time as a demonstration, and they try to think it through. Don't think movements… And movements…. If you have them, you have a model in front of you… modeling is the easiest thing. You see my body moving in a specific way. Just watch it and move. Don't think. If you think… done. And when they… I always say, do not think, just do it. It doesn't make sense at the beginning, but the body does everything automatically for the neural neurons. It goes... It bypasses the thinking. It goes straight into the nervous system through the eyes, and it happens. You just think, look, I'm doing it. Of course you're doing it. But you don't think you're doing it. You do it. You don’t think you do it. You do it... So it's not the same. People think that they are their thoughts. No. Thoughts are thoughts… but it's a different, different story.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

DANIEL: Simple as that.

SAMIA: Ah, okay, okay. You know, I... Gosh, I'm having so much fun talking with you, and I'm being a bit conscious of time. So I want to actually, as we begin towards wrapping up for today, I actually want to sort of come back to something that we started talking about much earlier, and I want to sort of end on this… We started talking about how fear underlies a lot of, you know, the challenges that we're experiencing. Yes. And we talked about, you know, two of the core fears being the fear of not being loved and the fear of loss, right. And the question that I wanted to ask you, and I hope one of my last questions because of time consciousness is… what is your understanding of love? Like, what is love?

DANIEL: I would say love is everything. Love is everything... And love is one can call it energy… is the one thing… Some call it the field... You can call it God. You can call it anything. Creator, Universe… I would call it synonym. So love is everything… it is that one thing that flows through it every one of us, regardless of religion, age, sex, anything. So it's that one thing that connects everything…

SAMIA: Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, I was thinking about the fear of not being loved, and it made me think about an interview I was listening to of Oprah and Will Smith, and they were talking about how life is a journey where, you know, you're going from… It's a journey of, like, going from fear to love.

DANIEL: Yeah.

SAMIA: Like, learning how to move from fear to love. And so, you know, that just kind of came back to me in our conversation, and I love to end on thoughts of love.

DANIEL: Yeah. That's perfect.

SAMIA: Yeah.

DANIEL: Yes... Love is everything. I would say love is... Love equals giving. You always give. And once you give, you live in love… but give with good thoughts, give with kindness, and give with love…

SAMIA: Yeah. 

DANIEL: …without expecting to receive.

SAMIA: Oh. Oh. We could do a whole episode on that… give without expecting to receive… Oh, gosh. We'll probably have to bring you back, Daniel, because we have so much to talk about. Do you have any, any other last thoughts or words you'd like to share?

DANIEL: Yes. Fear is in our imagination. We create it. It's real because we make it real. Act first, think after. Change your state, and then think it through.

SAMIA: Excellent, excellent. Thank you for that very, very wise perspective…

DANIEL: Thank you. Thank you. I hope it helps.

SAMIA: Yes, it does, it does. And my very last reminder to our audience is to make sure that you check the show notes, because we will drop Daniel's links in there so you can connect with him and continue to learn with him and get more help and support. And until we connect next time, I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy... :)

DANIEL: Likewise. Thank you!