Little Fish, Big Impact: How Small Businesses Can Grow Together...

Little Fish, Big Impact:
How Small Businesses Can Grow Together...
Sara Saleh & Samia Bano

#smallbusinessbigdreams, but not sure how to achieve them?

Are you a "little fish"/#smallbusiness at risk of being eaten up by the "big fish"?

Don't panic -- organize!

Listen now to this interview with Sara Amira Saleh, #DigitalMarketing Strategist, to learn how even as a #littlefish you can have a #BigImpact!

The secret lies in understanding how small businesses can #collaborate to #growtogether.

By leveraging #strategicpartnerships and #networking you can unlock new opportunities, #expandyouraudience and #BoostYourBusiness success with fun and ease.

Learn how #collaborationovercompetition with others—even those in your niche—can open doors to greater opportunities and mutual #businesssuccess rather than creating rivalry.

Discover #NetworkingTips that will show you how to approach collaborations authentically and create meaningful partnerships that benefit everyone.

Learn more and connect with Sara now at:

subscribepage.io/emailfreebiemen

https://www.instagram.com/sarasalehconsulting

https://www.facebook.com/savvysarasaleh1

If you're a #muslimah / #muslimwoman #businessowner looking for #NetworkingOpportunities, check out "The Global Muslim Mumpreneurs Network" led by Sara:

https://www.skool.com/muslimmum/about

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#smallbusinessessupportingsmallbusinesses #digitalmarketingstrategy #digitalmarketingservices #expandyourbusiness #ExpandYourNetwork #BoostYourBrand #BoostYourBrandOnline #muslimwomenentrepreneurs @CollaborationForSuccess #CollaborationForGrowth #CollaborationMatters #NetworkingMadeEasy #NetworkingSolutions #NetworkingSuccess #liveyourbestlife #enterpreneurcommunity

Here's the audio version of this episode:

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Full Video Transcript

SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry! It's really, really good to be with you again and I know you'll be very pleased and happy that you have joined us today because we have a very cool guest with us… and it's Sara Saleh, who is a Digital Marketing Strategist. Welcome Sara…

SARA: Thank you. Hello. Salam alaykum, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

Hi Samia, thank you for inviting me on today. Really... I'm really, really happy to be here.

SAMIA: Oh yay. I'm so happy to have you. And yes, Sara, please go on and tell us more about who you are and what you do…

SARA: So yeah, my name is Sara Saleh… as you said, I'm a Digital Marketing Strategist. We just had a little chat about this when we were just before we started recording about my feelings around introducing myself and my title these days because a lot of… there's a lot of noise online around digital marketing. Being a digital marketer, what does it mean? So digital marketing… I primarily help online business owners, so service providers primarily… so coaches, course creators, service based freelancers… with their marketing online. I specialize in email marketing, sales, conversion funnels, copywriting, community building, and lead generation. Now I know they're all kind of buzzwords that are thrown around these days, but I help you basically get seen online and get more clients. That is the crux of it at the end of it and all the other stuff’s all the kind of mechanics and things behind it... I started this particular journey in around 2020. So I like a lot of other people's stories, I was in a business… so I was in corporate for 10 years. I used to work in telecoms, I was in management consulting. I started out as an admin office girl, ripe old age of about 21, something like that. I got a job as a temp in an office and then it was in a telecoms company. I was doing like bits of stuff. I told them I knew Excel and I didn't… and I used to use the help button and things like that… and I kind of basically worked my way through the ranks. So within four years I was working as a management consultant for a firm in London… management consultancy… managing big massive contracts, all this kind of stuff. And then I basically stopped and I gave up work to become a stay-at-home mom. My husband was like, look, you don't have to go back if you don't want to. I was like I really don't want to go back. I want to be at home with my children. I've done a lot of stuff in between then. And then my third child was getting a bit older… I was like, I want to really get back into work. And I just couldn't find a job that was a good fit around the children. And then my sister in law was like, you know, you can come and work for... So my husband's brother's got in… My sister in law had a company, a travel agency. But she was like, you know what, if you can't work for us it's fine, it's your own job, you're self employed, you can get commission but you know, you've got to find your own leads. I was like, I can do this, I can sell travel. I love traveling. I've been traveling all over the world. I'd done India for six months, I've been to Thailand. I mean all these different places, you know… all the Middle East… with my one year old in the backpack, mind you. And I was like, right, how do I do this? I can't go out and meet people. These ex… you know, these networking events, they're really expensive. Like, in the UK it's like £800 to join these big kind of networking communities and things. So I start looking online. I'm big on Facebook already. I had loads of connections there. I was kind of a bit tech savvy, you know, coming out of the telecoms world… and I started literally looking on YouTube, looking on Facebook… How to get leads for your business… I kind of fell into the network marketing world really strangely. Even though I wasn't network marketer, I followed a lot of the big kind of online coaches of how they used lead generation to get recruits. So I was like, I can use this to get leads for myself, for my travel business. And it honestly it just worked so well. We were doing absolutely amazing. I was making really, really good income. Like, I was, I, in my first year I got an award for like the second… I came second in best travel agent agent of the year. Like, it's on my LinkedIn. You can go and have a look on LinkedIn there. And it was really going really well… obviously… guess what happened in 2020? Covid hit. It was like a tap turned off, like literally.

SAMIA: Yes…

SARA: And it was a really stressful time. Covid hit so we lost everything. I ended up in hospital with bowels palsy and I had stomach ulcers and I got really ill. Like, I was really, really ill. So imagine Covid in hospital on my own, you know… they were like… it was really traumatic because I had to get taken with an ambulance. I had to go to the store department. But Alhamdulillah, it was just bowel palsy had shingles... Anyway, all that stuff happened in between of all of this happening, I started seeing these things online. You know what the Facebook algorithms are like. You can make money from home, become a creator. You can do 10x and make 6 figures and be this big thing. I was like, I could do that. And I joined a course and it was about one to many… So how. What service can you sell that you know that you can sell? And I was like, well, I'm really good at Facebook. I know how to generate leads. I'm seeing all these coaches and stuff online from through my networking and stuff and all these people that are trying to find clients. I could maybe teach that. So bearing in mind I had this bowel palsy, I got really ill, I got pregnant as well… So I was about to… I was going to have baby number four and I set up the business that I'm in now. You know, started off small. I was, you know, I done a couple of courses, a group coaching program… I took a little bit of time off. I'm not going to say it was proper, proper time off, but I was still active on social media while I had my baby. And then I kind of fell into freelancing. So I saw a job advertised for a community manager and I was like, oh, I can do that job. And it's perfect because I've, you know, my baby's still small. It's a freelance role. It's contracting for a big coach and I started doing freelancing. While I was doing freelancing, all the people I was working for, I started like literally getting mentoring, absorbing all the knowledge. So I still work for one of the freelancers today, who is Evelyn Weiss. She's like an eight figure… She teaches people membership and Facebook ads and she's mentored me one to one. She's taught me everything about funnels and… and just like my knowledge is increased massively by working with clients like that.

SAMAI: Yeah.

SARA: And I do have a community and stuff now. So yeah, that's a bit about my story and how I got into everything and how everything kind of grows and evolves, you know…

SAMIA: Yes. I love it, I love it. You know, it's really wonderful that you have been so open to shifting with the times and, you know, creating change in your life as circumstances have changed around you. And that is a quality that we love in this community of Make Change Fun and Easy... I know it can be a bit tough at times, but you know, it's like, if you have that spirit of being open to change and so forth, then you can definitely make it happen…

SARA: I think it's the being open... I think it's understanding that if you're trying something new or you need to... the word pivot again, that word is like the 2020 word that everybody was pivoting and stuff. And yeah, it's not necessarily pivot... I have tried so many different types of business. I have tried planning skincare. I've tried making nappy cakes. Do you remember nappy cakes from about 10 years ago? I've tried making jewelry… These are the little bits I didn't tell you about when I was kind of telling you my story. But I've tried so many different types of businesses and I just... If something wasn't working, it wasn't that I was… It wasn't that I didn't stick to it. I've taken a lesson and learning from each one of those businesses. And I have the privilege to say now that I've got to the point where I don't feel like a failure, because every time I tried something new and my husband was like, what's she doing now? What does she want to do now? You know, it's like, I've tried to... I now know that each one of those things has given me a really good skill, or it's given me a lesson, or I've learned something... I've met people and I've been introduced to a new network work through that opportunity that I've had. And it's like anything in the business… So, like, I teach funnels and I teach people how to create offers and things like that in their business, okay? So what I see so much is, and I am guilty of this myself as well… I've done this… is you put an offer out or you try a new business and it doesn't work the first time, or it doesn't work in the first couple of weeks or even the first couple of months. And you almost blame yourself and think, I can't do it. I'm not good enough. But actually, it may be because you haven't tested it enough, or it may be that you need to try something new. You know, you need to adapt. It's not just about, you know, adapting and changing. It's about, like you said, making it fun and easy to be like, okay, what can I do now? And there is obviously a fine line whether you're just going to give up because, you know, the confidence or you haven't put enough hard work in, quite frankly, because a lot of this is quite hard work. But it's also about understanding that this life, you know, that we go through, Allah puts things inside our heart.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: And we get lessons and we get… We've got needs, wants and desires, and there is a plan for everybody. And it's okay to change, and it's okay to change something and test it. So if I put an offer out tomorrow and say, "Hey, buy my thing." And it doesn't work… a year ago, even maybe six months ago, I'm like, right, that's it. Not going to work. I'm not doing it again. I'm trying something else. Maybe I could say, okay, maybe the offer isn't right. Or maybe my message isn't right. It isn't correct. I need to change it. I need to try a new angle. I need to try something new... So it's kind of keeping in that mindset of moving forward and pushing forward. And you know what? In this life, especially when you're an online business owner, you get knocked down. You have to get back up again. And you get knocked down. And in life as a mum and as a wife and everything, all the trials and tribulations that come, you get knocked down and you just get back up again. We have to push through, right. And it's hard... I know it's hard. Like, I am. I... You wouldn't believe how hard things have been sometimes for me. And like I said, I've got a privilege to sit here now and be all positive and say, "Hey, it's great, it's okay if it doesn't work out and stuff and..." But, like, honestly, I've been through it, so I kind of understand a bit.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah… no, I thank you for that, sharing that insight and being that much more real with us… because you're absolutely right. Like, I have lost count of how many different things I have tried out and how many pivots I have made in the course of my, you know, from the point in time when I was like, "Okay, yeah, I'm not going to just do some regular job. I want to start my own business, my own organization." And it's gone through so many iterations and… like, I've changed messaging, but I've also just changed, like my ideal client… the people I want to work with. I've changed what I want to work with them on. You know, I started out… this was like back when I was still in college and my first idea was to just teach women self defense classes… because I had in college taken some self defense classes and I found it to be so empowering and so transformational and I knew I wanted to do something to hel, especially women, take more control of their well being and their, you know, just life... And that seemed to me like, "Okay, here, you know, is a pathway I can follow." And so I actually got trained in how to be a self-defense teacher for women. And I actually joined an organization where they… basically, I was one of the instructors in that organization. We went out and we did all these workshops and trainings for different organizations that invited us. But also just sometimes we would organize our own trainings and workshops and bring in women from the community and you know… and so that was one of the ways I got started. But then, you know, it was like, now I'm not teaching that at all pretty much. Well, except now I focus a lot on like mental-emotional self-defense in the way that I talk about how to be happy and, you know, as a Happiness Expert. But I'm not teaching the physical part so much anymore. Yeah. So, you know, we make all these pivots and changes and it's not a failure. It's definitely a learning thing. It's like with the physical self-defense thing, I took it as far as I could take it. And then I had some realizations about, oh, you know, this is not really what I want to really dedicate my life to because you know, in my case I realized that once you become really focused on the physical aspect of self-defense, you know, then you just have to keep training and learning new techniques and then you have to learn how to master different weapons. Like, what if like someone points a gun at you? Then you have to think about like, and it's never-ending... And it actually was creating more fear in me. Like, on the one hand, you know, I was like, "Oh, now I know something about how to defend myself. And so I felt better and more empowered." But then when I realized how much I don't know, and all the different ways I could be attacked and I don't know how to protect myself in those contexts yet… So then fear started coming in. It was just like, I was like, "No, no, no, no. I just, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole." And it wasn't promoting my happiness and inner peace in the ways that I was really desiring. And so, you know, but I still got something really important and valuable by going through that experience.

SARA: Yeah. And I also don't think… it's okay to be multi-passionate.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: And I think people are a bit afraid to try something new because…

SAMIA: …yeah.

SARA: …They're going to think, "Oh, they're thinking, what she changing again?" Or I've had comments of people like, I can't keep up with you. You're doing what you're doing now. And I'm like, well, actually I'm doing the same thing. I'm just talking about different things because I have been... I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was… about three years ago, so my late 30's and I was like, you know what? Yeah, I'm going to just own it. I'm going to be, "Oh, my ADHD superpower." Like, I know so many different things, it's amazing. And I can use all of these skills. So for example, when I have a freelance client now, so sometimes with some of the clients like I mentioned, I work with, like, there'll be something that maybe I've not been contracted to do, but I notice it and I'm like, yeah, I can fix this. Oh yeah, I've got project management experience. Oh, I've got this experience. Oh, yeah, I've done instant management, I've done service improvement. I've done this. Oh, I've done project management... Oh, yeah, I used to do beauty… and like, you know, it's all these little things like, where do you get all this information from? Like, you know, everything, like, and it's really good because being multi passionate as well helps you when you're coaching clients or when you're working with clients. Because, yeah, often we can really, like, because the experience that you have and all the different settings that you've seen… I can often tell you what a client needs. I can tell them what they need within 10 minutes…

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: … of them talking to me, I know straight away it is because it's come from those different experiences and people come from to me from different industries and I'm like, "Oh yeah, I know about the industry or I've had a client in that industry." So, you know, it really helps. But being multi-passionate is okay as well.

SAMIA: Yes!

SARA: I know you were talking about ideal client… I think everybody should be like reviewing their ideal client at least once every three months minimum. You should be... because we change. If you say keep the same ideal client all the way through your journey… If I had the same ideal client now as I had like two years ago, a lot of the people that I worked with two years ago have like completely moved on. So you're constantly working with new people, which is good anyway, but you change as a person.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: Your energy changes… and the world changes... Like, we've seen a massive shift in the online industry in the last few months. Like, it's been massive and it's coming on so quick that I don't think people realize that it's hitting them. Like, I'm speaking to a lot of people and they're like, I'm not selling the way that I used to. Like, the calls I'm having with clients and people coming to me saying, can you help me? Like, my ads are not working. Or I'm not selling the same way as I used to. And you know, I used to have my whole diary was booked up with calls set with like discovery calls and now I'm not getting hardly any or they're not converting the same way. And this is happening very, very quickly now. There's a couple things in play here… I think AI, which we all know anyway, but I think it's… there's a lot of… there's a big shift in the online industry recently. And I think that's also to do with the way that the big networks are, what they're allowing on to be placed online…

SAMAI: Yeah.

SARA: …as well... And you know, we've had a few things that have happened in the industry as you know, especially like in the UK recently, we had the thing with the Muslim pioneer, which is ongoing, so we don't know what's gone on, obviously. We've just seen what's on the Internet… and a lot of people have been affected by that and that has... I think I've even had a client say to me that somebody didn't want to work with them because they heard about that and they were really dubious and they needed to go and think about their investment again. So it is affecting people.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. No, things are changing. Things are changing very, very fast. And you know, this makes me think about the idea of going back to certain basics.

SARA: Yeah.

SAMIA: That no matter how much technology… technology changes or advances, etc., there's certain basics that we can, I think, rely on… and help us when it comes to... Well, right now, you know, you are a digital marketing strategist, so when we think about it in a marketing context, I think there are certain basics that we can fall back on. And like, for me, I know this is something you and I have talked about before… I think one of those core basics of learning about collaboration… and, you know, how we can collaborate our way to success, especially when you're still what I might call a “little fish” and you don't have thousands of dollars to spend on paid advertising and so forth. Can you tell me a little bit more about what insights you have in terms of this collaboration model? Like, what does that look like for you, experiences you have had around it and so forth?

SARA: Collaboration is one of the most underestimated tools, shall we call it, that we have in business. Like, I started doing networking events in 2018 and I still have people that I'm connected with then contact me now that I've met. Oh, do you remember we met… Like I had, I put a photo up about one of the first networking events I ever did. I ran it in a cafe and was like, who wants to come and meet me in the cafe? Like, you know… and online collaboration is absolutely amazing… like, leveraging each other's audiences. If you have somebody that has a shared audience, it can be so powerful for your business, not just for your own personal growth, but for your business growth. And the one thing I see a lot of people, they get, there's almost a scarcity mindset around it. So, you know, for example, I would work with another digital market in my space. So another person that's selling maybe the same service or a service similar to mine… So somebody that's like a website designer or sales coaching programs and things like that. Like, I've worked with people that people may have thought, oh, you two could be competitors, but actually we're not. It's better to work together. So we do things like… these kind of things, podcasts, we can go live together, we can do email list swaps. So when I say email list swap, if you haven't got an email list or you have got an email list, you can say to each other, "Hey, I'll tell you what, I'll share your lead magnet or your low ticket offer in my email this week. And you share minds whenever it's relevant." You can do live events together. You can... Some, I've even got people in my network, some of my clients that have launched offers together.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: And it's really, really amazing for your business. And I have so many people ask me… I get inboxes going… oh, do you know this person for this? Do you know this person for that? Or you're the person in the know because it's all, it's a really good trait of a business owner to be a connector as well. Because people remember you.

They remember Sarah Saleh. Oh, she'll know that she knows that person. Or people message me and you know this speaker, can you get them on... Or do you know how to do this? And things like that. So that's one aspect of the collaboration in regards to what we can, how we can leverage each other's audiences. There's also things that you can do like launches. So for example, I don't know if you've heard of digital bundles... So digital bundles, where a group of business owners get together, you all offer something of value. So it normally be a paid product. Yes, you give it away for free. People you don't charge. Okay. You can have a, what we call a trip wire, an upsell on the back, on the back end. So if you have a course, it's like $50 or $100, give it away for free, it doesn't matter. You're going to get leads. You know, that isn't something that sat in your toolbox right now that you can give and you don't have to pay for that traffic. You would sometimes… people… for 100 leads, people will pay £150 more to get. And this is going to be targeted leads, right. So you can like people, you can either look for bundles or you can join, even create your own bundle. I'm planning on doing one in the new year, just before kind of Ramadan time. So that's another thing with regards collaboration. And it can be really difficult, like, approaching people because again, I don't want to, put the market and industry down, but in the Muslim marketing space. So I've done a lot of collaborations outside of the Muslim space because I do work and I've got freelance clients outside the Muslim space. And when I've done it in the Muslim space, it's almost like there's a bit of scarcity there. And I've interviewed, I interviewed around 30 women of my ideal client for like market research and they, when they were joining my membership and I spoke to them and said, what is that you need? How do you feel? And a lot of them said that it's kind of like there's a little click at the top and they kind of feel at the bottom. And it's really hard to get to that place where you feel like you are worthy enough to be a collaborator or you're worthy enough to inbox someone. I mean, the worst that they're going to say is no… like, just inbox someone say, "Hey, you know, I've got this thing. Can we, you know, do a collaboration?" The most effective thing that's worked for me consistently since 2020 is giving away a free training. So I approach coaching programs, network marketing teams... Don't underestimate network marketing teams… coaching programs, memberships and I will say "Hey can I give your community a free training?" And I don't sell, I don't pitch, I give a proper value, free training and masterclass that may have cost something and I give a pitch for my freebie at the end. That's it... I say join my email list and this on is so underestimated. So for example right now I've got one that I've got a couple of trainings that I've done before. So I am in that privileged place do this… but you guys, if you, you can use chatGTP or something maybe I'll do a little training on that somewhere to create a mini master class that's going to speak… solve a specific problem that is a pain point for your audience. So for example I've got the ones that I'm going, I've got going out right now are networking for your business, how to network. What do you say? What do you do, you know, how do you fill in the gaps when it gets awkward… you know that… all these things. That's a pain point for a lot of people. Also how to create a lead magnet... What is email marketing? How do I even start? So I've got one that I'm doing for a copywriting membership and I'm talking about networking. I've got a lead magnet, kind of email marketing 101 training I'm doing for a YouTube faceless automation membership… and these people have got hundreds of people in there. Like, when can I ever get in front of hundreds of people to deliver value without having to launch and that kind… And I've learned I've done like Facebook how to use Facebook to generate leads training. I've done it to five people on a FM network marketing team. I've done it to 500 people on a big massive kind of coaching program and I deliver exactly the same. And I've approached Facebook admins. I approached a Facebook admin once and they offered me a job. They were like do you want a job? Come and work with us, help us with our community development. There's so many different like aspects out there and the way you can do… and I know it can feel a bit overwhelming but if you will are willing to go on a podcast like this for example or you're willing to do a live on your Facebook, it… you can get together a few slides… or don't even do any slides. How about that? Just go on and talk and give value... Like, actually teach something.

SAMIA: Right.

SARA: Not a webinar, not a webinar. Don't do a sales webinar. It's very easy to go in and be, this is my story. Don't. Solve a specific problem that's their pain point. You will demonstrate value and you'll position yourself as a leader and you will start to have social credibility. You can also ask at the end of these sessions, can… if you would like, if you really enjoyed my session, share on your Instagram stories. Please leave me a review or send me an anonymous review so I can screenshot. There you go. You've got reviews. Show social credibility… leadership... You've made new connections, you've made leads. You possibly could even have sales.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: So that's one thing. Even if you're a small fish, do it. Do it... Especially small fishes, because it gives you practice. And just honestly, you'll be surprised how open people can be to give you, like, a free training.

SAMIA: Yes. You know, the thing is that a lot of times when we approach the “big fish” and we get rejected and then we think, oh, my gosh, you know, I'm a failure or something... But really, it's like I've come to realize that, you know, they're playing a somewhat different game… and it's okay for us to play a different game. You know, there is this concept of “little fish organize”. Like, if you Google “little fishes organize”, there are all these images that pop up… there's like one big fish, right? And then facing off the big fish, there's a whole bunch of little fishes, and they've organized themselves in the formation of a big fish. And there's so many little fishes. And once they've organized themselves, they have become even bigger than the big fish, you know… and so it's like, yeah, that's a different way of doing things. That's a different mindset. And I think it's a wonderful, wonderful mindset and thing to, you know, like, look into how you can leverage that for yourself. And, you know, even as you continue to grow bigger yourself, like, don't forget the lessons that you have learned and amazing connections you have developed in this context of little fishes organizing with each other. And maybe you can continue to uplift more people as you grow yourself, you know. So, yes, because I agree with you, Sara… The more success I've found, like, this has been one of the core aspects of it. I remember my first year of launching my coaching practice, I worked with some 30 or so clients in the first year… and I didn't realize that I was achieving any kind of exceptional results in that context. I just was like, oh yeah, I did this. It was only when I started talking to other coaches who were also in a similar position of just having launched their practices and so forth, they're like, whoa, how do you do this? How did you make that happen? And I was like, oh, you know, I actually went to this conference and I met this lady and we decided to do a training together. And actually this lady that I'm right now thinking about, she was one of the people I collaborated with my first year…

So she actually had established health and wellness spa and like a physical in person business where people came in to receive health… like, services from her. And so I was just talking with her, we connected at a personal level because you know, I was sharing with her my story of how I became a Happiness Expert. And I said, you know, it's because I really struggled with my own happiness growing up because I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse. And that was something that when I shared my story with her about that she connected with me at a personal level and she was like, you know what, I'm a survivor as well. And that put something in her heart where she was like, let's do something together. And you know, let's... She was like way out of my league, honestly, in terms of… she already, her health and wellness spa business, like already multi-million dollar business and so forth. But we connected at a human level. And she was like, let's do something. And I was like, yeah, you know what I've been hearing from you about your business is… I noticed that you have such a diversity of service providers, but they're all focusing on different aspects of physical health. Maybe I can come in and offer some workshops on mental-emotional health. She was like, I love that idea, let's give it a try... And so, you know, I actually… that was the value that I brought. She brought me into her space, advertised our… the workshop that I proposed to her existing clients, client base… and a bunch of people signed up, you know, and so we had like, I think 10 people sign up the first time she advertised it to her community of people. And then we had a really great experience with that. We got lots of positive reviews from her clients and we're like, okay, let's do round two, let's do it again, you know. And so it's like, and I'm not saying that, you know… like, maybe if I hadn't met her, you know, I was meeting so many other people and I was able to collaborate with in other ways in the future. Some of those collaborations were a little bit smaller. We had to put in a little bit more initial work in terms of... because, you know, every, every collaboration is different and so you have to kind of navigate who brings what, how you're going to do things... you're starting at different points and so forth. So... But yeah, it's like for me, that has consistently been one of the building blocks of my business and that has made things so much more fun and easy also.

SARA: Yeah. And I think the thing that you, the main thing I take from that is the networking.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: That you didn't just sit on social media and post reels.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: … expect clients to DM you... Because these days is what a lot of people are doing.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: And especially with the style of marketing that's being taught right now, it's, you know, post on Instagram three times a day, post on… give value. Like without even really telling you what giving value is. Post in Facebook groups, go on threads and it's, it's exhausting…

SAMIA: Yes... 

SARA: So exhausting. Like, so I believe it or not, find social media exhausting a lot of the time.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: It is can be very exhausting, energy draining and…

SAMIA: …yeah.

SARA: Never underestimate the power of just speaking to people. Like, go on to... I always say to people, go onto Facebook, go and do a search, find networking events, go on to eventbrite… If it's in person… If you can't get to in person, there's loads. I run networking events. I do free coffee chats. If you cannot find a networking event, start one. And I don't mean start a big event and a big thing. Just say to… put a post on Facebook or Instagram, wherever your thing is and say, "Hey, who wants to meet me for a coffee? Let's do a zoom, let's do a catch up about xyz." That's it. And you know what? You may have one person, you may have no people, but the next week you may have five people. The week after that you may have two. The week after that you may have 10. But you've connected with those people on a real level. Like, online networking is more difficult because we don't have the privilege of being in the same room as somebody… having this feeling, the same energy… But getting on zoom is so much better than just being on. And it's great. Like, oh yeah, oh yeah.

I know you, I've seen your posts or I've seen your reel…

SAMIA: Yes…

SARA: You connect on that level so much better. You really, really do.

And just getting out there and talking to people like some one of people say to me or what do you mean how do I network? Like what is it? Like I said just go out there. Imagine if you're going to a coffee morning or you're going to meet someone for coffee.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: That be as simple as that. Or go and find spaces online where they may be doing these kind of events. I know when people say things like give value and leave breadcrumbs, I don't really like those terms… when I say that... It's like you go in a group, you post your pitch, you tell somebody how amazing you are and then you give a call to action to book a call. That's not what it is. It's actually going in and genuinely interacting. Like, I'm on some groups and the advice I give on there, people pay me for in calls one to one. And I will give out so much value and I will give people proper in depth responses to questions… not just "Oh, I can help you with that. Send me a dm." Because I see so many coaches and online service providers doing that. I see them in groups and they're like, they're in, you know, for example, like if you’re parent coaching a mum's group is like, "Oh, I can help you send me a dm." Like no, no, don't send me a dm. Do you know why? Yeah, send someone a dm. You're going to get more value of putting a, put in some 5-10 minute effort into giving a good response because you never know who's watching it. I've had somebody join a live event, meet me in a networking event, join my email list, and I haven't even, I've mainly met them once. They've been following me on social media, they've met me then… they've met… we connect, and then they would want to buy like a really, really expensive funnel solution from me because I've given so much value and I've helped them with the process so much. Like, right, now I'm ready for you to do it for me kind of thing. So going in there without… there's a different energy from selling and pitching to genuinely connecting, genuinely giving value and people can tell the difference.

SAMIA: Yes. And like in the example that I shared with the, with one of these first collaborations I did, like, it was a genuine, like, connection that we made at a human level that motivated this much bigger fish than I was at that time to be like, you know what, Samia, let's do something together.

SARA: Yeah.

SAMIA: I mean, if I had been just, you know, thinking sales, sales… how can I get this person to… how can I sell her into my program or something… You know, if I had that kind of mindset and if I hadn't shared honestly about my story and where I was coming from, who knows if we would have ever, you know, ended up in that collaboration or not.

SARA: Yeah. A lot of the big fish, no, they can see when someone's got potential and they can see when someone's going to be helpful collaboration. If they are, if they come off …or you assume that they're being rude or they've been not rude… I don't want to say that because some people are just, they're just too busy or they don't understand or they just haven't got time… It might be they're not the right person for you. That's it, literally it. They're not the right person to clap and maybe they're not ready for collaboration. Because I work with a lot of seven, eight-figure business, business owners and I can tell you there's a different level of scarcity, there's a different level of collaboration and things that they want from their business.

SAMIA: Yes. 

SARA: And they don't always see the value in it until later on, or they've got their own mindset or their own, believe it or not, limiting beliefs on certain things… because it can become a very lonely place when you start getting success, believe it or not. So they have to be very… they've maybe been burnt in the past. They have some people are very wary who they work with. Like I've said, we kind of touched on that thing, what was happening was in Pioneer. He was very well propped up and supported by many, many big names in the industry. You know, so people are very, can be very guarded, but it doesn't matter. At least if you try, you're going to plant a seed. You never know, they may come.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: …the worst they’re going to do is say no. What's going to happen? Nothing...

SAMIA: Right. And you're not depending upon, you know, some big fish taking you under or whatever. 

SARA: No, no, no.

SAMIA: It's like, don't depend on that. The point is that if you're genuine, if you have good intentions, something like that may happen sooner for you than later, you know, but in the meantime, don't depend on it. Don't have that be the agenda with which you even try to build relationship with them and so forth. Because you're very right, Sara. I think one of the things I've noticed about, like, the people who become big fish is there is their own kind of scarcity mindset that they fall into, but also there is like some genuine, I think, concern that they have in terms of being taken advantage of…

SARA: Yeah.

SAMIA: …and people using them for their own ends. And so they have... 

SARA: It happens...

SAMIA: Yes, it happens. And so they build up these guard walls, you know. And I think they have a right to do that. You know, they have...

SARA: Actually, most people are honestly open. Honestly, most people are open. And we are business owners, at the end of the day, we're all here to make money.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: So it's not just about, I'm going to pitch to you and I want to sell. It's like, okay, how can we benefit from each other? Yeah. So it's like collaborating with, like I said, I've collaborated with 50 people of one more people of 500 or thousand or whatever it is, you know. So it's just really being intentional about what you're going to be doing for your business and why you want to do it and how you want to do it. You know, it's like, because it can be really weird when someone's in your dm, they're like, hey, how you doing? You're like, okay, I'm waiting for the pitch now.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: So this is why going to purpose like events or organizing your own. Like I said, it can be a coffee and chat. Coffee and chat. Tea and chat... You know, people have different words, but I've got shop I've heard that kind of stuff as well. I've heard all these different words and go into those. Everybody's kind of there to meet each other and see each other. And especially in Facebook groups as well, people know that we're all in there to see each other and... But yeah, I wouldn't be afraid of just going out and being doing some collaborations and just getting yourself out there and just acting like you were 6, 8, 7, 8, 9, figure whatever business owner it is, just be like, I've got this amazing thing and I want to collaborate with people because I know that we can help each other for our business because the more you take advantage of it, no one else is going to be taking advantage of what you're doing. So you're going to have the upper hand already. You're going to be doing something different in your business. But I just think it's difficult for people to kind of see a way forward. It's like, okay, what's the first step? Do I also, how do I feel to do networking without feeling salesy? Or how do I do collaborations about being salesy to people I don't know, you know? But it's just, hey, would you like to go live together or ask somebody to introduce you as well? Can you introduce us? Like, do you know each other? Can you introduce us, like, that kind of thing as well? You have to do a little bit of online dating. Friend dating, obviously.

SAMIA: Yes, yeah. Like having something of value to offer without... You know, I think the thing that gets tricky is like, as you said, we all, I mean, those of us who are in business, I mean, obviously we have a mission and a purpose in terms of wanting to grow our business, making the business successful. And at the same time, you know, we want to do it from a place of honesty and without being sleazy and all of that kind of stuff. And so sometimes it can be like a mind trick of sorts of go out there and offer value and just…

SARA: I think it's a lot of the time, we put our own limiting beliefs on ourselves because we've been pitched to so much in our day.

SAMIA: Yes. 

SARA: We get... I get marriage proposals. I get 10x your business. Do you want an appointment settler? Do you want this? Do you want that? Oh, do you want to do this? I get, I get it so much... I get tagged in posts that are completely irrelevant to me.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: I get so many inboxes, I get emails, I get all sorts of stuff. And I'm just like, I never turn anyone down. I never be horrible to anyone, anyone that pitches me. I'm really nice because like I said, I know what it's like to be a small fish and think, you know what? At least doing something to grow your business. At least you're not sat just posting reels and expecting everything to come to you, you know, so…

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: But it's because we sometimes put a limit in belief because we don't want to be that salesy person. But also it's sometimes that we don't have the confidence and our limiting belief is actually in the subconscious because a lot of us do have the thing about validation and rejection. It's very, very common…

SAMIA: Yes. 

SARA: Very common... 

SAMIA: Right. No, I think that's where the trick comes in, right, where it's like one thing to make your offer, make your pitch. And I think what we need to separate that out from is having an expectation of the person we are pitching to saying yes to us or even no to us. Like, don't do like, it's like you do what you need to do, but then let the universe take care of the results and trust that it will do its best by you. You know that the universe is a friendly universe. And like you don't have to try and control outcomes. You don't have to try to control how other people respond to you. For everything to turn out okay, just do your thing, do what you're, do your deed and let the fruit come emerge on its own in its own good time.

SARA: Yeah. And it will, like I said, if you've got, if you make it as easy as... So when people say make it as easy as possible to buy, right. You know, working followers, you have to make it.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: Make it as easy as possible for somebody to say yes. Say, hey, I've got this training or hey, I think us two could work well together. This is what I do. Here's a bit of my work, here's my Instagram. I think we could think about the ways that you can collaborate and benefit each other. So I am a very, I come from a project spec where like I said to you, I'm very solution focused. So the agile way of being solution focused. So don't just, you know, if you be salute go in the solution focused mindset, say this is how I think we could be amazing together. Or if like you said you wanted to give offer a free training which honestly is such a good way to do this. People, please, honestly is going with a solution. I've got this amazing training on this very burning pain point that both that our audience have or your audience have that I've got the solution to. I'm going to give it to you for free. I'm not going to pitch any sales.

I'm just going to offer my lead magnet at the end. That's it. And you can get them, you can tell them they can look at the slides before and all that kind of stuff if you want to, but have something ready or have a pick some not a pitch but like have a solution solution ready so they, they can be like, oh look, you know, because it's almost like a buy in decision in a way when you're making friends and stuff like that.

It's not like a buying decision. It's like, hey, it's my proposition. This is what I've got.

You know, what do you think? And if you just go, hey, would you like, to collaborate? It's like, okay, what does that mean? How does that work, what we're going to do? And it's just like, you know, it can turn to, like, maybe not.. Whereas if you're going confident with a solution to say, hey, I just want to be friends, I want to kind of benefit each other, how can we work together? Then that could be a really good way to go into it as well.

SAMIA: Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yes... And, you know, like... And just staying open because, like, I've had it happen where I will, like, make a suggestion that, hey, I think maybe we can work this way or collaborate on this together, and then the other person comes back with, actually, you know what? I'm not interested in that. But there's this other thing that I'm working on and that I would love some support on.

And, you know, and so to be open and be like, okay, is that something I could support this person on? You don't always have to jump up and be like, yes, okay, I'll do whatever someone else wants me to do. But to just have that openness, to just consider what they are saying they really need and want, and if you can help them with that, then that can be another really great way to move forward.

SARA: Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

SAMIA: Yeah. Okay, cool., cool, cool... So we have touched on so many different threads and things that we've talked about, and I realized, my gosh, we should also start thinking about wrapping up for today. Are you having any, like, last thoughts that you really want to share with our audience?

SARA: Yeah, I... The one thing I'd love to share is getting confidence in yourself. And if there's one thing I can share from my journey that took me a lot of coaching, a lot of worry and anxious nights and not working with people and not putting out offers because I was afraid was this. You don't need validation from anyone else to run your business. And if you're going to be doing, like, collaborations and stuff, you don't need validation from the other person. You're just good and you're absolutely worth it the way you are. And I think the main things that people really struggle with is the clarity and the consistency. And we all know if you have clarity and consistency equals, you know, it's the confidence. It's all there... I think going into 2025, I think the main thing most people are going to have the struggle with is the focus... It's always a struggle, but I think even more now because there's so much noise online and there's so much... There's so many offers and there's so much noise. And like I said, the market's changing really quickly. It's going to be really difficult to know what to focus on and just knowing that you are enough and it's okay to try new things and it's okay to meet new people and do things. And you know, again, like I said earlier, if you get knocked down, you just get back up again. You get back up again…

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. You know what, you just made me think of another question for me to ask you because this is something and then maybe we will wrap up. But I wanted to ask you. So a couple of times we have mentioned shifts that are happening in the market and the way things are being done online, especially for businesses, but maybe we can actually spell that out because not everyone is up to date and aware, especially if you're not professionally in the marketing space. Can you share with us like what is, what are one or two important trends that you see shifting?

SARA: So going into 2025, I think the way people are buying has changed a lot. Now there's always core fundamentals in marketing and there's always shifts in the market. Now AI came out last year and it did have an exponential growth, but it's, we're starting to see not a fallout, but we're kind of seeing a burnout of it right now. There's so much stuff online use chatGTP to 10x your business and all this kind of stuff, but it really is professionalizing and a lot of people are using AI in their business. And if you're not, I would start thinking about it right now. AI for content creation, for video creation. There's so many different things. Automation in your business, there's so many different things because if you don't learn AI now, you're going to be replaced by somebody that does learn or knows how to use it or knows how to leverage it in their business. And you're going to think, how are these people doing all this stuff and they're cranking out all this content, it's because they've got a team. But a lot of the time a lot of people are using AI. But I think the way that people are buying is changing. We are, we've become a culture that's so fast. Fast food, fast fashion, fast social media. We sit on our phones, we're like fast, fast, fast, opening it open here... The same with the way that we want to consume content. Especially if you're in a service-based business or if you're a coach. People want results like that. And transformation does it takes time, transformation and healing. And transformation is not linear... It's not a linear thing that happens in six weeks or in 90 days. It can go up and down. And I think the way, but the way people are like where you would do a long 12 week, 6 month, 9 month, 12 month coaching program, a lot of people are just not in for that anymore. They're just not in for that. They want micro-based content with short learnings like podcast-based content, like audio content, short courses, short, sharp, actionable things that they can take away. Because obviously this is not all industries. There are some things that different but overall the way that people are buying, the way people are buying online is changing as well. Like tiktok, especially for like Ecommerce and stuff like that is, is. Is growing massively. So people are buying differently as well. So they are... There's always been ways that people buy depending on who your ideal client is. For example, if your ideal client's a mom, she's going to be scrolling at night. She may see your post in the morning and she'll come back and she'll be scrolling and buying at night because she's busy all day. You know, there's loads of little nuances to this, but I think moving forward we have to kind of like you said earlier, go back to basics and simplify the way that we are doing things and simplify our content. Now I personally believe traditionally there's a lot of very convoluted programs and offers out there and there's all these hundred upsells and down south and cross-sells and checkout bumps and all this kind of stuff. It can be overwhelming and it can be confusing and people don't want that. They want something that's short. And also a really big thing that's going into market is community. Community is coming back. It's always been something. As humans we, you know, we're inherently looking for our tribe, always looking for where our people are and whether we're an introvert or not. You know, online communities are where it's at over the long, you know, structured calls, that kind of thing. If you are a coach, I would really look into asynchronous coaching for 2025. So that's where you, for example, I have an offer where I will give a week's worth of voice support over WhatsApp, Facebook messenger, Voxer. And I have strict, not strictly the wrong word. I've got boundaries where I say, okay, I will respond between 9 to 5 or 9 to 3 and then in the evening, Monday to Friday, you'll get a response back depending on what level they've got within a certain amount of time. And I will coach that way. Now, this doesn't work for everyone and there are... But I guarantee whatever coach you are, you can use this as a maintenance package, for example. So you may have done some really intense coaching with somebody and if they want to carry on, but they may not have the money or they may not have the time to sit and do a call every week, it's too much... Have you ever took, have you ever took a client on, for example? I've done this because I'm a coach, I'm a qualified coach. I don't really coach. It's where I sit, it's where I like to be. I don't really. But you ever taken a client on and you're like, okay, right, we're going to do let's say 12 calls. Yeah, over 12 weeks. Have you ever done like two or three weeks and gone, okay, she doesn't need another call or she's not going to need another call next week. And I've seen coaches draw this out just because they want to keep, they want to keep the money, they want to keep on schedule. 

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: Could you create an offer that's a bit of both. So you have a couple of calls and then you say, okay, you've got me for the next month. For certain types of people, you know, be flexible with what you're doing. And this also serves us as business owners because we're not like, oh, I've got a day of four hours of calls and I've got to go and do the washing up and I've got to cook dinner, I've got to pick the kids up and I have to take them to the clubs, I have to take them to my job. And then I've got another two calls booked in and I've got a discovery call when. What can you do? You can have somebody that you send a voice note to in between. You're on social media doing whatever you need to do. This can work so much better. So having flexibilities and thinking outside the box for these types of offers can be really useful, I personally think, for this kind of industry. So, yeah, being a bit more flexible and thinking outside the box and saying, okay, here's my 12-week coaching program. You're gonna have one call per week and then the week three, you're like, okay, this person don't need coaching yet. Like they could probably have a month break or a client's gone.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: You need another coaching call yet. Can I have a part of a refund or can I have this or you know, you've, we've all been, you know.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I agree with you on the flexibility part. It can really help because. Exactly, like I signed on a client, this was like a few years ago and then she was like, oh, you know, but I've just been invited to go on a two week vacation and it's going to be up. It's. I am not, I can't say no to it. And we're going to go to this like great location, blah, blah, blah... I was like, okay, well, you know, you know, so just a gap comes in, right in terms of the plan that we had agreed upon to work with. And I'm like, you know, like from my perspective, you don't want to completely disconnect. Not only like, because, you know, like we are working on transformation, we're working on creating change. So it's like if you completely disconnect, you lose the momentum, you lose the rhythm and so forth. So what I did was I modified. I was like, okay, look, you don't have to get on calls and things, but I am giving you one assignment that over the course of the two weeks, do this one practice and then come back to me and tell me how it went and then we'll go from there, you know. And so I made some and I didn't want the one practice that I chose for her. I thought about it a little bit in terms of what would be most effective and easy and manageable for her to do and still impactful in terms of our being able to continue to move her forward towards the result that we were working on in terms of her taking control of her happiness and so forth. So... And happily, when you are a little fish and you have fewer clients, it's actually easier to do that kind of flex thing. And so fort...

SARA: Yeah, I think it's because I think a lot of clients as well like to work in that energy because you might find clients won't sign up with you because they can't... When, especially in the mindset kind of niches, especially in some of the heavy niches and things like that, when you're doing, helping people with, you know, transformations, even when they're signing on, looking at, working on themselves, sitting down with somebody, actually having that space to sit down for the next 12 weeks or whatever it is with someone can be very difficult. And it's not because they don't want to work on themselves and they don't want to do the transformation. It's just life, right? 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

SARA: How many times have you had a thing where a client hasn't turned up and they're like, oh, I've had to go to the doctors or oh, I couldn't do that. And, you know, sometimes don't actually do the call. And I think just work offering something that's a bit different. And also, you've got a lot of clients that say to you, I can't afford two grand, I can't afford five grand, whatever it is, your packages.

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: You can say, okay, how about, would you like WhatsApp support for $500 or $200, whatever it is you want to offer.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. 

SARA: I can give you this voice support. We can have one call. We'll work out our goals. We'll work out what, you know, our objectives are. Well, goals would be.

And then we'll move forward with the WhatsApp support. And then you know that you're like, you're still there with that lifeline, helping them. And I can understand for some coaches that can be a bit of a shift of being like, okay, I'm not sat here. But actually, how many times do you speak to your friends on voice notes?

SAMIA: Yeah.

SARA: Give them advice and talk to them and business contacts and go, okay, yeah, I'm just gonna... Yeah, okay, do that or whatever... It can work for certain things.

SAMIA: Right. Yeah, just try it out and see…

SARA: Yeah. Try it out. That's something you need to try out…

SAMIA: ..yeah, exactly. If it doesn't work, then you don't have to keep going with it. But just try it out, stay open. It's part of the whole change-making process. Making change fun and easy…

SARA: Yeah, yeah, short, sharp, micro-content and working with... Yeah. And it's more flexible on you as well. It's better on your energy.

SAMIA: Yes. Oh, thanks for that added a question and answer and I got so much value out of that. Thank you so much, Sara. And I will, like force myself to stop asking you more questions and just give my last reminder to our audience, which is to please make sure you check the show notes because you will be dropping Sara's links in there so you can connect with her. And, you know, maybe Sarah will have a free gift for you in there. We'll see, right?

SARA: I'm sure I can give a free gift for you guys... Of course I can.

SAMIA: Awesome. Awesome... Thank you so much. So until we connect next time, you know, usually how I end is until we connect next time I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy... :)