The Magic of Silence: Releasing Fear, Trauma & Mental Chatter. Ronald Tabachnick & Samia Bano

Why are we so uncomfortable with #silence? And what happens when we #stoptalking long enough to truly feel?

Silence can feel terrifying… but it can also become the doorway to #healing.

In this deeply profound conversation, Ron Tabachnick, #Spiritual Strategist, Master Strategic #Facilitator & #Coach, explores #trauma, #emotionalsuppression, #fear, #grounding, and how silence can help us reconnect with our emotions, #truth, and #innerpeace.

Discover how silence can reconnect us to our #trueself, dissolve mental chatter, awaken #emotionalhealing, and create space for deeper consciousness, presence, and #spiritualgrowth.

Learn more and connect with Ronald now at: https://www.insightacall.com/

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#SpiritualAwakening #Mindfulness #Consciousness #Presence #HealingJourney #SelfAwareness #Meditation #TraumaHealing #EnergyHealing #PersonalGrowth #Awareness #MindsetShift #BeingPresent #SelfDiscovery #MentalClarity #ConsciousLiving #SpiritualPodcast #HealingThroughSilence #InnerHealing #liveyourbestlife #silenceispower

Here's the audio version of this episode:

Transcript Automatically Generated

Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry…

It's really, really good to be with you again.

And I know you'll be so glad you have joined us today because we have a very cool guest with us. And that is Ron Tabachnick. He's a spiritual strategist, master strategic facilitator and coach.

And you know what? I'm going to ask him in just a moment what that really means in terms of what he does and who he is and all of that. But before all of that, welcome, Ron.

So happy to have you with us.

Thank you, young lady.

Oh, you're so welcome. And Ron, please tell us more about who you are and what you do.

I would love to tell you more about me and what I love to do. The first thing that I'll start with is I asked myself many years ago, why am I talking? Why am I saying anything?

Why I asked myself the question, Samia, to this day, I don't know why I did, but that happened. And as I thought about that question over and over again, I had to get quiet for a moment to get some kind of answer. Otherwise, it would be made up.

So asking that question over and over again, I got a little hint from my higher self that I crave attention. And when I noticed that, I would notice that I would be looking at you, and your eyes would be looking at me. And because of my interest in energy, I became aware that I was getting a connection with your energy of looking at me.

And then I realized I would feel a little more animated, and I would feel the energy, and it would be a little bit exciting to feel alive. So I realized when I was, and this is my story, and I make it up and I'm gonna stay with it until you wake me up, that when I was a kid, I believed that I didn't get the attention I wanted as a child. I wanted something from my mother.

When I was in the crib, she went to get a cup of coffee in the washroom, and I decided I wasn't loved. So what do I do? If I do something to get attention, and talking was the thing to get attention.

And I noticed to this day, if you listen to me, I love getting attention. And then on top of that, I realized I've learned so much over my life that I've decided, as friends told me, if seven people say it's a horse, maybe you should get on it and ride it. So I've decided to come out of my shell and share the insights that I've learned over my years because at 82, I am a spiritual ultracrepidarian with a wonderful sense of humor.

And an ultracrepidarian, if you take a look at what it is, it's an expert in an area that will give you his opinion on topics he knows nothing about. And I bring into this whole world of laughter because when I was living with the Indians in the early 90s, they told me that the reason why I am the way I am is because I'm here to wake people up. And my native name is Morningstar.

And when you are waking up in the morning, that's the first thing you see is a morning star. So I'm here to wake up people. And also at the same time, I'm here to wake myself up because I realized that we are so unconscious that we didn't realize that everything we learnt was in our heads and we didn't learn anything in our bodies.

And when it came to learning, I love to learn. I didn't realize why I love to learn until I realized I say the word and it's got a charge on it. And as I mentioned to you, Dr. David Hawkins talked about every word's got a charge on it.

Some are positive and some are what we call negative. And learning, it's got a positive charge where when you think about the word and you become silent after you say it, you notice that it's a sensation or it's a feeling in the body. And what I found out is because when I was growing up, it wasn't okay to be a man.

It wasn't okay to show emotions. So I stuffed the emotions and my whole life has been to become aware of these emotions and when I become aware of what we call emotion, which is this energy in flow and to become aware of it, I've noticed I'm alive and I didn't realize what that really means, but I am alive. I'm a living whatever living is, as if I'm in a constant expansion like the universe.

And being alive is the greatest gift in the world.

Yeah.

But unfortunately, growing up in a family that money was important, I unconsciously would go towards business. And I spent 40 years in business failing at 70 businesses because I was doing something to learn and not to make money because of my interest in growing and learning, even though I grew up in a family where money was God. So that I found out growing up as what I say in a contrary environment, my mother was my father in strength, my father was my mother in strength.

So I had a role reversal. So I became aware of this masculine aspect of us, which is the doing nature, because there is no masculine and feminine, is that we labels the doing nature is the masculine and the being nature is the feminine. But it's along a continuum.

It's not man or woman. It's along a continuum as if it's hot and cold water. There are opposites that are along a continuum.

And when you move along the continuum, that's where life is. Where I grew up stuck in one continuum of the feminine, and I attempted to get into the masculine. But once I get into the doing, my feminine nature said, what about me?

So my life has been, and this is what my purpose is, is in my way of, I'll say, understanding, which is another topic, to take the feminine aspect and the masculine aspect, and have them culminate together spiritually, but sexually spiritually into who I am. Yeah. It's one of the exercises that I've been working on ever since I remember that I was uncomfortable with my mother, and comfortable with my father.

At the same time, I became aware that I'm highly auditory. As you can be aware, I love to talk. I'm auditory.

There are people in my family that weren't, that they would talk to get something done, and I noticed I talk to enjoy connections. I became aware of what they talk about in neuro-linguistic programming is that in your family, you'll favor one sense and your other family members are going to favor a different sense. And that's why we have arguments that if you're visual, and I'm auditory, you're going to want to see something, and I want to hear something.

And that's why it's a bit perturbating to understand. And understanding is something that I've been asking myself along the lines of other things. What is understanding?

Yeah. Nobody answers it the way I want the answer is because at the moment, understanding is an intellectual label for an experience.

Yeah.

My challenge is that when I use the word understanding, it was triggered by a sensation. I'm not really clear what understanding really is at a visceral level. I do understand, but I don't know how to really understand understanding.

And because of playing with words most of my life, that's one of the other topics that I ask people, do you know what understanding is? It's the same thing is, do you know what silence is? And you mentioned we were on silence.

I grew up where you sit in class to be silent. Don't put your hand up because you break the silence. So I wouldn't put my hand up because the teacher needed the space to talk, and I needed the space to talk.

So silence is an interesting state. So when I think about the word silence, which is a label, I get quiet for a moment, I get silent and notice what the feeling of silence is, which is an experience in itself.

Yes.

And what I noticed was I had to get quiet. Well, what does that mean? It means right now I'm making noise.

Getting quiet is in some ways I'm going to get emotional because when I really become aware of what it is to be quiet, I go, I don't have to say anything. You just have to be. And in silence, it's just be.

And it takes practice. And we were never taught the value of practicing. When I was a kid, my mother wanted me to learn how to play piano.

I would sit in front of the piano, play a chord two or three times, and then I'm sorry, I'm out of here. I didn't like practicing. When I, I learned how to play pool about a year ago, billiards.

I found out I loved playing pool, didn't realize it. But I noticed when I'm playing pool, the only way to get better is to practice. So I remembered when I was in the theater, when you learn your lines, you have to learn your lines to the point where you can memorize them and say them, which is at an intellectual level.

But then you had to know the lines enough where it became into your body, which is an interesting transition because most of my life I've been in my head. Because to get into my body, I have to feel.

Yeah.

I have to feel. It's just a natural way. But growing up, how can you feel when you're not allowed to feel?

And I was having this challenge, which is the greatest challenge in the world to realize, I want to feel, but it's not okay to feel. The feeling is the feminine and the masculine says, no, just get it done. So I've been working on this whole idea right now when I'm talking to you, I feel a little bit of energy.

I feel a little bit of excitement because the energy is flowing with someone else who shares whatever is going on. And when we share this energy, the world disappears. It just disappears.

True, true, true.

Making connections.

Yeah.

So the idea that I'll bring up that comes to my mind, silence. Yeah. Is an interesting topic because it's an interesting topic.

Yes.

Of all the things that we talk about, how is it we talk about silence? So there's something valuable. I know you want to say something, but I'm not going to let you.

Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead.

It's all good. It's all good. Oh, gosh.

Thank you, first of all, for sharing all that. There's so much that you shared that I want to dig deeper into. But if we pick first the idea of silence, I've had an interesting relationship with silence.

Um, so when I was a very little kid, I was notorious for being very, very talkative. My mom tells stories of how I would sometimes talk for hours without, you know, pausing. Uh, but then I experienced the trauma of being sexually abused as a child and I became very silent.

And it was like a major shift in my personality and my character and the way that I was with people in the world, even, you know, something because it was like one of the shifts that are impacts of that, of the abuse that I experienced, that was something that anyone and everyone could experience about me. Where, you know, like people who knew me later in life, they were like, oh, Samia is such a quiet girl. Samia is such a quiet girl.

Whereas, you know, the people who knew me from when I was young, like before I experienced the trauma that I did, they were like, oh, Samia is such a talkative, talkative girl. And so, but the interesting thing that I realized was the, for one thing, I realized the difference between quiet and silence because a lot of people labeled me as a quiet girl, but I knew that I wasn't quiet. Like, I never felt quiet because internally, I was always, you know, on and talking and even screaming and shouting, but no one could hear me because I was silent.

And so, like, for me, the difference between quiet and silent, at least the way that I understood the two words, was profound and immense. And for me, the silence was not, again, the way that I understood the word silence. It was not an empowered state because I was silent because I didn't feel brave enough or empowered enough or courageous enough to speak what was going on for me.

So I felt like the silence was in some ways forced.

But quietness would be something that I would choose when I was actually in a more empowered state. And so, you know, but so that was like one thing that I learned about quietness and silence.

And so like whenever I hear other people talk about silence, that's something that comes up for me. But also, it makes me wonder like what your experience has been with silence. And you have shared some of that already.

But I wonder if you have anything more to say now that I've shared something from my perspective. Hey, thanks for tuning in to this episode. Hope you're getting value out of it.

For your information, this episode has been sponsored by the Happiness 101 Program. Are you a ChangeMaker, coach, trainer or healer? Are chains of fear holding you back from making the impact and income you desire?

Using a unique combination of positive psychology and the spiritual wisdom of our most effective ChangeMakers, the Happiness 101 Program helps you break through your limiting beliefs and manifest the abundance and success you desire with fun and ease. Interested? Book a free Happiness 101 Exploration Call with me, your Happiness Expert, Samia Bano.

Just use my online calendar link in the show notes. Now back to the show.

I just wrote a book about what we just shared in the last couple of minutes between quiet and silence. And what I'm noticing is I'm having a challenge when I communicate with anybody, where I will go into my head and start saying something and I forget that we're having a conversation. And then when I pay attention to you, I forget what the conversation is all about.

So that it's a, I'm not sure what I want to call it, a challenge holding the space for you, holding the space for me, holding space for the conversation. It's an interesting state to be in. The thing that we can talk about is one aspect is this thing called quiet and silent and silence.

I'm having a challenge understanding the difference. The thing that I want to mention to you that you have the experience of it that I don't have.

Yeah.

When I think about what you experienced, I cannot and I don't want to relate to what you've been through, except I feel for you, I feel sad that you couldn't have the, I'll say the male nature to say, don't fuck with me, don't mess with me. Whoever was to have the abuse, that that's the piece that I wish, I wish you had that. And I sometimes I wish, I don't mean to use the swearing in the negative, but it's really a positive that sometimes I'd like to say to people, hey, don't do that.

And what I found out is because I was such a sensitive guy, I would let people do that to me. Even to this day, my oldest brother, God bless him, who I live with, he will put me down. And then I realized it's his issue, but I took it as a negative, not realizing this is his issue.

Because I'm successful spiritually and he was successful financially, he doesn't even have the capability, if desired, to have this kind of conversation. And I'm going, this is only conversation I want. And I would love to be able to talk to him about it, but unfortunately, he was so left-brained.

My brother was so left-brained, my mother was so left-brained, that they didn't have the willingness or desire, and I'm not sure why I had it, of having these kind of conversations with, give me a sense of, I'm expressing myself. And what I want people to realize is there's a value that is a billion times what we're sharing right now together. We're taking your awareness, our awareness, and then we've got the thousand people that are listening to this.

We're sharing their awareness. Very, very powerful awareness that we have these million years of experience sharing what we're doing that it's quite profound when we tap into that. It's not just you and I, it's who's ever participating to whatever degree, and they can participate because they realize, hey, there's something going on here that's very powerful.

So with silence, notice something.

Do you notice something?

Yes.

What I noticed is, it took me some, I'll say energy to keep my mouth shut. And then I noticed there was something going on in the silence that was very empowering. Beyond on intellectuality, it was as if there was an expansion happening in the silence.

And it's an emotional state when I tap into, well, why is this emotional? Why would I want to cry being in the silence? I'm not really sure at the moment, but I don't know whether some people may feel that, in this silence, it's magical, it's empowering.

I'll say, it's like the universe expanding in the silence. And then I noticed, well, the universe doesn't talk. The universe just expands.

Why we're talking? We are experiencing being a human, so that the spirit can understand the experience, and the human can understand whatever that really means. I'm not sure what that really means.

But the silence is something that I have, I've been to some workshops where the silence was empowering.

Yes.

And one time after one of these intensive workshops, and I've been to some intensive workshops, I had supper with three friends that went to the workshop. We got to sit down at their house, we got the dinner ready, and I happened to say, let's eat first and talk afterwards. Samia, what was interesting was, I didn't realize it, I couldn't look at anybody.

I had to keep my head down on my food, and keeping silent was a very challenging experience to be in the moment. So I believe when I'm silent, I'm in the moment.

Yeah.

And when I'm talking, I'm talking about, or I'm talking within the silence was a little bit different. But I noticed that even when I take my time and have a conversation, it's a different way of expressing. And when I listen to some wonderful spiritual leaders, they speak very slowly, very intently.

And I'm not there the way Eckhart Tolle expresses himself, the way that, I don't know if you've ever encountered a guy by the name of Abdullah from New York, who's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful teacher. He taught Neville Goddard how to be who he was. You know Neville Goddard?

No, no, I don't.

Where have you been all my life? Have you ever heard of Krishnamurti? Jinju Krishnamurti?

Yes, him I've heard of.

Have you ever heard of Buckminster Fuller?

No.

Are you awake? I have had experiences with people that you've never heard of. It's the same thing you've had experience with people I've never heard of.

So when we get together, it's priceless that what we can share from your experience and from my experience, because it's all one experience.

Yeah.

And when we put this into the silence, maybe the silence is like a vessel where we put everything into the silence, I notice I'll slow down and I'll be more present and not just in my head, because I'm so intellectual.

Yeah.

So the silence is a nice metaphor to be period.

Yes. I mean, now, if we just think about silence, as you have been talking about it, I can see why for you and me, it's a really important something for us to practice. Because for me now, when I'm silent or quiet, the distinction between the two words is not so sharp for me anymore.

So I can choose either one. But when I am that, like for me, that's when I can also feel more. Whether it is to feel the energy of the universe expanding, or whether it is my own energy, or whether it is the feelings that I'm feeling, you know, all of that becomes more possible and vivid and alive when there is quietness or silence, as opposed to, you know, when there is not.

Because when there's not, then I'm like definitely also more than to be more in my head and trying to think through everything. And like for me, a lot of that, when I refused to be or was challenged to be quiet or silent, like for me, it wasn't that I didn't feel allowed to feel, it was that I was too scared to feel, like I was scared of my own feelings. I couldn't handle them.

So I avoided...

I'm going to interrupt you.

Yeah.

Your word, first of all, we have to be silent to experience. We can't talk about it. Second of all, what I want to say to you, I've noticed I have to be silent.

I can't talk about silence. That's strange. That's insane.

To be about silence is to be silent. But you think I can be silent? The other thing that I want to mention to you, when you say the word scared, the energy is very high.

And what I want to mention to you is that your head has labeled an experience because there is no fear. The label wants to label it as there's fear and there's... I'm scared, but I’ve noticed that the word is stopping me from having the experience.

And if you were to give yourself permission with a lot of love and care and intention, and to notice, okay, the word is covering up, literally, whatever that experience was. And if you were okay in a safe place to have that experience and have it and then release it, you may find out what the lesson was.

Yes. Yes.

Well, I've noticed when I would say I was scared. Okay, I was scared, but then I know what is it? My energy, I wasn't able to handle the flow of the energy because it was all over the place.

Right.

And when I realized that the label really stopped me from having, my intellectualization stopped me from having that experience, I've noticed it's going to be a challenge for me to be safe to have that experience that was labeled as fear because it's going to take a release of energy that the person took advantage of me. That situation was overwhelming. And to say where my male nature is, I'm going to deal with this, whatever it's going to take, to the point where I sometimes I would say to you if I tap on your shoulder over and over and over again, there's a point when you're going to say to me, if you do that one more time, you're over.

In other words, to develop our male aspect, to say don't mess with me because we let people mess with us. You let this person mess with you. If you were, and you could do this in a very safe environment, and you put it in a room, go back there and tell that person, okay, I got the lesson room, but you do whatever you want to him, leave me alone over my experience.

Thank you, I learned the lesson. But don't ever do that again. Because if someone were to take advantage of you now, I guarantee it, you may be a little more, you have the masculine nature, which is okay to say, don't mess with me, leave me alone, or I'm going to take your head off.

Sure, sure. I mean, that's there. And also, just going back to the silence part, it's like when we can really truly be silent and listen to both ourselves, but also what is there in the universal consciousness and energy that's trying to communicate with us.

I think also just, you know, we can learn something about, you know, like what you were saying about even that the label that we give, a fear that then becomes like a block for us. Being in silence, like true silence, can actually, like for me, that's something that I discovered, even that dissolves or can dissolve. And so you're like, wait, even if I am feeling excited in terms of that high vibration, high energy that I'm scared of, so to speak, but what is there really to be scared of?

Why is that scary? And it's actually, like, I think this is something that you are touching on, that that's actually a learned response. That is a meaning or an understanding that we give it, and it doesn't have to be that.

No, you'll find out that for some people, it's a positive.

Yeah.

I've seen some people where they'll challenge themselves, where I would say, I would never do that, because I'd be scared, they use it as a positive. So there is a positive to everything, but we were taught, or we were conditioned, or we believed otherwise. And then I find out there's some things that you do, I would never do.

And there's some things that I do that you would never do. One of the things that I'll share with you that you may never do, or you have never done, is in a certain environment, I went to a party nude. And my friend, and this was like 30 years ago, my friend to this day remind me, Ron, you came to this party with a tuxedo jacket, and that was it.

And the thing that I found out, I'm not sure why I did that, Samia, but because I happened to be who knows what, I may have done it for me as much as for somebody else. But what I didn't realize, I did something that I thought was outrageous. But, and one of my friends said to me, you know that not one person took offense to me being nude?

And she says, you know why? Samia, I didn't know why. But I'll ask you, do you know why nobody took offense to me being nude?

And there were strangers and friends. Do you know why nobody took offense to me being nude? You know why?

Tell me.

Okay, I mean, you're gonna know this answer, but you're not aware of it. Because it wasn't an issue for me. And because it wasn't an issue for me, I was okay with it.

Everybody else was okay with it. And I went, oh my God. So when you're okay with whoever you are, everybody else is gonna be okay.

But I found out for years, even now sometimes, I know I'm not okay with who I am because I was never accepted for the wonderful, for the intelligent, for the funny character that I was because it would make people uncomfortable, which means they would feel alive, but they didn't wanna feel alive. So they called being uncomfortable. So when I went to this party, unbeknownst to me was a wonderful lesson that when you're okay, nobody's gonna pick up on anything.

But if you're not okay, other people are gonna pick up on it from the vibration and went, so if you are not okay, it's a lesson for me to be like, okay, how come whatever I'm doing or whatever you're doing is not okay? And we find that it's another way of learning what we've been holding on to that is a belief that really wasn't who I really am. So that what I wanna share with you is when you are doing what you're doing, like there's some people that could not do what you're doing.

And you do it because this is who you are. So that, and everybody that's listening there, there are things that they can do that nobody else can do. And be very aware that don't criticize the other person because they can't do something that you think is simple.

Reminds me, my oldest brother loves talking about finance. And it's a challenge for me to talk about it. So I don't want to talk about it.

But he can't understand why I don't have that kind of conversation. He can't understand why I enjoy these kind of conversations. So it's a different vibration and different energy.

And to become aware of this, so the whole point of this conversation for me is to become aware of this. Whatever this is, is something that I like talking to people about.

Yes, well, you and I are on the same wavelength as far as that comes because I like to talk about this stuff too. And I'd much rather talk about this than about violence.

So another thing what I'm thinking of is that I would like to be silent right now. It's a challenge for me right now to be silent because I want attention. So I'm talking to get attention, not realizing that I can get attention being silent.

But sometimes it becomes a little more overpowering when I get your attention without the way that sometimes I'm speaking maybe to keep me away from making a connection. So when silence is something I go, it's a very exciting state to experience.

Yes.

I'll give you some moments to be silent.

This is because a lot of our listeners or our audience will be listening to this as a podcast. I won't carry on the silence for too long, but in the few moments that we were silent, Ron, would you like to share something that you felt in the silence?

I felt an emotion. Then I realized all the people listening to us are silent. They're all silent.

They have a wonderful experience of being silent.

Yeah.

Which I thought, I'm a little bit jealous that I would like to be silent in this conversation. The other thing that I do notice when I think about and I'll say when I think about silence for a moment, that word is very expansive. At this moment, it's the only thing that came to my mind when I'm silent.

And then I noticed the chatter because my mind is chattering. And it's just shattering because it's just shattering. It's going on whether I'm silent or not.

My mind is just going on. And when I'm tapped into who I really am, I've noticed that there's no chatter.

Can you say that last bit again when you are what?

When I'm in the silence and I'm expressing myself as who I am.

Ah, as who you are.

I've noticed there's no chatter. And I went, hmm.

Tell you a little bit more about that, about the chatter disappearing when you are experiencing yourself as who you are. Can you give me a little bit of a sense of, of, or like, I don't know what the proper word is. But like, if it's something that can be verbalized, who are you being that allowed you, that allowed the chatter to go away?

When I am...

When I am... And I'll repeat it. When I am, the chatter disappears.

Yeah.

It's the closest I can get to explaining. And to explain, I gotta be in my head. But to...

When I'm in the state of I am, when I do what I love to do, and I notice during this conversation periodically, the chatter stops, and then I believe the chatter's always going to keep me alive. But I'm not... I don't have to be conscious of...

It's taking care of the things that are keeping me functional. And to trust, and it may be to trust that my mind is taking care of things beautifully, I don't have to think as much. And I...

To be aware of being as compared to being aware of doing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Again, the... The language-ing is...

It's like two different universes. Language-ing and the being is... Two...

At one level, it's two different. At another level, at a frequency level, there's a similarity. But other than that, I think there's a difference between being and doing.

My sense is when I am, it's all one.

Yes. I can agree.

No, the other thing I have to add in there, that it's a... It's a balancing act. That when you're on a...

When you're on a teeter-totter... On one end is the mask, on the other is the feminine. And there's always this...

Life is a balance. It's a balancing act. It's not static.

And when you have this balance point, and you come in and come out, it's a wave that's attempting to be a particle. The wave is the movement, the particle is the point. And when they are the same as I am.

Hmm, that... Those are some interesting analogies.

Yes. You know, from a spiritual perspective, I was thinking, like, for example, the idea of the wave and the particle, you just spoke about, I mean, of course, this is the thing about language, it's so constraining and challenging sometimes to express things in language. But we'll do what we can, or I'll do the best I can in this moment.

So you just spoke about the particle and the wave, like the particle, for example, trying to be the wave, or the wave trying to be the particle. But, and from a certain perspective, and I get that, that trying to achieve the balance.

And at the same time, there is the reality, or the perspective, that they're always both. They're always both. It's not that they're, that, you know, that there's sometimes the particle, sometimes particle, and sometimes the wave.

But the reality, from a certain perspective, is that it's always both.

Well, it's not just the longest continuum. At one end is the particle, is the other end is the wave, and it's on a continuum.

Is it a continuum in that context, or is it more that it's a constraint of our understanding, in our imagination, in our ability to know, and perhaps our need to control things that disconnects us from realizing that we are always both?

Well, at one end is control, the other end is being, along the continuum.

Yes, I mean, I have definitely felt the experience that where the being and trying to control us to separate things.

But they aren't separate.

Are they? Are they? I mean, in the silence, isn't that one of the lessons that we learn that…

It's the same thing with hot and cold. In my model of the world, hot is at one end of the continuum and cold is at the other end. And it's just a degree of difference between each one.

But they're along the same, they're the same in a different form.

They are, but... And I guess what I was trying to also express is that they're simultaneously existing. They, from a certain perspective, it's like, okay, there are two ends of a continuum.

And from another perspective, they're states that are simultaneously existing.

Yeah, they are. They're simultaneously existing, yes.

Yeah. So I like for me, that's one of the most beautiful things about silence that I have come to appreciate is that I can experience the simultaneous-ness of so many of these kinds of different dichotomies that I usually live in. But when I'm in silence, the dichotomy can sort of...

It's like the chatter going away, you know? And then-

Or what I need, what I want to interrupt you by saying, the silence is like the blank page. The silence is like the space that we're in. We need, from our experience, the blank page to make a painting, and we need the silence to have the chatter.

They're both... The silence is as important as the chatter. And as one of the scientists were saying, as we observe this, it's another interesting topic of how does my observation of silence and chatter...

We may be right on, or we may be talking through our hats because we're verbalizing something that maybe don't verbalize it. Just as my native friend said, just go hug a tree.

Yeah.

Just go be.

Very true, very true.

Right now, we are... We're not being. We're not outside.

We're not in the grass. And maybe it would be nice if we went... If we could do this, we both go outside and we sit on the grass.

And then we just sit on the grass and get grounded. Because we're not grounded. We're so in our heads that, you know, I'm in a building and I don't do this enough, but I should, which I don't like that word either.

It's just go and sit out in the grass. I think about it. Why don't I do it?

Because I don't do it until I go live with my natives. And all we do is sit outside and just be.

Yes. Oh, gosh. You just brought up another something I would love to dig deeper into.

And I've been looking at the time.

You're looking at the time. Don't look at the time.

So, let me ask you this one more question, and then we'll see if we can wrap up. But what you were just sharing about, you know, being out in the nature, like, and just when you're connected to the grass, it makes you feel like I have had that experience for sure. There, it feels so much easier for me to feel grounded when I'm like hugging a tree, or my feet are in the grass.

And the question that is coming up for me, you know, is, in your experience, because I would like to imagine or believe that we can experience being grounded and be grounded, even in the absence of certain external environments. Let's say, like, what if I don't have access to a tree or grass that I can get to, and I really want to feel grounded? I need to feel grounded right now.

How critical is it that I be in a particular environment to be able to achieve a particular state, as opposed to, you know, like, I don't have access to a tree or grass right now, but I can still become grounded?

Well, first of all, that's what you think. Right now, you think you don't have access to a tree or ground. Can you not go outside?

No, no, let me ask you. Be very careful. Can you go outside?

I could. I personally could, yeah.

You could go outside. Then go outside. You will find out that if you meditate and go into a meditative state and go to your favourite place, that is one step removed from being outside, which can be a wonderful thing.

The thing is, as a human being, it's a nice exercise to meditate, but it's a very different experience for you to realise, hey, I'm going to go outside. I'm going to stand outside, whatever that is. It's a better experience for us as humans than to meditate about it.

And notice that when you say you can't do that, you realise you're thinking that, but think about, I'm going to go outside. Because you could hang up now after we close this meeting, and you could go outside. Whether you will or not, I am going to after we finish it, I am going to...

Now, don't be like that, Ron, but I'm going to promise. I'm going to go outside and stand in the grass. Now, I get a bit of an angst because I made a commitment and, oh my God, I made a commitment, but I've noticed that I'm going to go outside.

Okay, made the commitment. I'm going to go outside and I'm going to stand in the grass after this call. So I want everybody, wherever you are, after this call, if you're on this call with us, as soon as we finish, go outside, say to yourself, I'm going to go outside for five minutes and feel whatever the ground is that's out there.

That's what I'm going to do. So you could do the same thing and notice what your mind may be trying to do.

Yeah, always challenge the limiting beliefs.

Maybe the benefit of our conversation today may be exactly that. Ron, challenge that belief that you think is limiting because it really is the opposite. Imagine it's really empowering.

Face it.

Yes. Okay. Okay.

So I have lots more that I want to ask you and I will force myself not to. Just in the interest of time, do you have any last thoughts you would like to share, Ron?

Yes, the thoughts I would like to share to find out who was blessed to be on this call. I would like you to take a moment and send Samia one thought or one experience, that or one awareness or enlightenment that you got from our call, so we can really focus on helping each other and finding out what you're all about, so that it may open some other wonderful ideas. So I would like everybody to send out some kind of response, even if it's no response, as to what they got from this, or a suggestion for us, or whatever's on their mind, and go outside for five minutes.

Thank you for that, Ron. And I will encourage you to not just send something to me, in terms of sharing your thoughts and feelings. We can also connect with Ron, also connect with Ron, please do.

And the most easy way to do that will be to just check the show notes, because you will be dropping Ron's links in there as well. So you connect with him with fun and ease. And until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy.

Blessings.