The "Healing Mode" Trap And What To Do About It.

The "Healing Mode" Trap And What To Do About It.
Femke Mortimore & Samia Bano

Stuck in the "healing mode", perpetually #healingyourself but not getting the results you desire? Craving to experience #truefreedom?

Listen now to this interview with Femke Mortimore, #TransformationalCoach Trainer, to understand how constantly seeking healing can become a subconscious way to avoid stepping into your power, and what it truly means to #transcend into embodiment and freedom.

Learn about the #hiddenlink that often goes unaddressed and keeps people stuck in #healingmode!

HINT: It has to do with how our #fearoftrust and the #needforcontrol impact our nervous system.

Femke shares how integrating #neuroscience and #quantumphysics into #TransformationalCoaching deepens results and creates #lastingchange. This isn’t your average coaching—this is science-backed #soulwork!

Learn more and connect with Femke now at: https://throwittotheu.com/

And check out her FREE Master Class at: https://throwittotheu.com/feel-free-finally/

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#missinglink #stepintopower #SubconsciousMind #EmbodiedFreedom #NeuroscienceAndSpirituality #InnerWork #SomaticHealing #LettingGo #NervousSystemRegulation #SpiritualHealing #TraumaRecovery #LetGoAndTrust #InspiredAction #SpiritualSurrender #ConsciousParenting

Here's the audio version of this episode:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Full Video Transcript

SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry! It's really, really good to be with you again. And I know you'll be so happy you've joined us because we have a very cool, special guest with us, and that is Femke Mortimore. And I'm so happy to have you with us, Femke. Welcome…

FEMKE: Thank you. Thank you. I'm super excited. Yeah, super excited to be here…

SAMIA: Me too. Me too. And Femke, will you please tell us more about who you are and what you do?

FEMKE: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a Transformational Coach Trainer. I help individuals find freedom from within. And I also train coaches on how to help others find their freedom within.

SAMIA: That's amazing. That's amazing. And when, you know, one of the things that I really loved about you when I first started to get to know you through like just looking, getting exposed to some of your posts on social media and so forth is. You have such an interesting combination of things that you bring into the work that you do. Talk about being a coach, of course, but you're also the neuroscience and quantum physics. Oh, that's so cool. Tell me a little bit more of what, like especially the mix between the coaching and the neuroscience and the quantum physics. I don't think I've heard very many people or anyone connect all of those.

FEMKE: Yeah, gosh. I think, first of all, that it's so important to connect all of those, because what I see in the coaching industry, but also in the law of attraction industry, something that really bothered me from early on. I've been in the coaching industry for 25 years now. I started in my early 20s after a very early midlife crisis, so to speak. And I just felt like it was really superficial. And I really deeply felt I wanted to help people. And so I wanted to make sure that if I'm gonna work with someone and I have their lives in my, their life in my hands, that I take a very thorough approach. And I think that kind of curiosity and passion for what works and what doesn't work. And yeah, like I just from like early on really dove into that. And initially, it was really with like some of my clients say that I have a little bit of an engineer's mind because I like to figure things out. I have a background in accounting and finance, loved math. So that I have that kind of a brain. But then later on, because I found that there was kind of like a limit to what I was able to achieve. So the focus was so much on strategies and on the cognitive. And I really had to learn for myself to fully embody my own freedom and my own intuitive guidance. And as I started doing that, I also started incorporating that with everything that I already knew.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. You know, a lot of what you're saying resonates with me. I have also now been in the coaching space, my gosh, for some reason, like, the mental math is not being my friend right now, but, like, from, like, early 2012 or so, maybe even, like, toward the end of 2011 is when I first started getting coach. Like, my happiness coach, my happiness mentor and I started coaching with her as her student actually, and maybe I just got really spoiled because the very first coach and mentor that I had in the coaching industry was so amazing and so awesome.

FEMKE: Yeah.

SAMIA: Like you she also sort of came at coaching from this more like holistic perspective where she brought in, like she was a happiness coach, happiness expert, and she took a really broad view of what it really meant for us to be happy and what it took for us to be happy. And so there were like so many different things that she touched on and incorporated and taught us about in that context, including, you know, spirituality, including science, including, you know, just a basic coaching that you find other people engaging in. And I had such an amazing experience with her. It was so transformative for me that I was like, oh, I gotta share and help other people with this, and so I trained with her to coach people in her program, in one of her signature programs. And so that's how I got into the coaching industry, and I just assumed, you know, that that's how things were. But as I got to know more coaches, I started working with other coaches, I started coaching other people, you know, you realize, oh, no, actually, that's not the case.

FEMKE: No, no, it's not the norm.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: You know, I think it is, I think we're at a time where you see where people get more informed. So I feel like it's growing up, right? It's maturing. Because in the beginning, it was all about the external performance. That was the focus. That's what people want, right. Because it feels like a quick fix. But actually, when people focus on that, they stay in perpetual healing mode and their nervous system is still going to be activated. So you are not able to hold any success in your body when you don't take that holistic approach.

SAMIA: Yeah, okay, so tell me more about this idea of staying in the healing mode and what's wrong with that because for a lot of people, when they hear about, oh, healing, it's like amazing. I think people want healing…

FEMKE: Yeah. And I think that's often, like, the next step or, you know, maybe where people start is with, and especially people that have had, like, child, like traumatic childhood experiences or simply painful, stressful childhood experiences. They focus on the healing and what I seen. And because I work with a lot of people who've done it all right. They've been to the Ashram in India, even paid high ticket prices with, you know, people who've worked with Tony Robbins or other big names, and they're still stuck. And so, like, that really in intrigued me. I've got, you know, I've done timeline therapy, hypnotherapy, EMDR, EFT, breath work, like I've kind of explored all of that. And what I've noticed is that when it comes to healing, one, healing for a lot of people is an escape because as long as they stay in healing mode, they don't have to fully show themselves and step into their power step into their light, you know. And so it is like a place where you can stay safe. It's frustrating, but subconsciously we use that to keep safe. And then on the other hand, what often happens when we focus on healing. We focus on the past and we gather... As we go back, we actually gather more and more story for why we believe what we believe. And especially if that core belief isn't unlocked yet, uncovered yet, which for a lot of people it isn't because a lot of people think that it's I'm not good enough or I'm gonna be rejected. those are not the core beliefs. And that's what keeps people in healing mode because they never transcend that higher level. Plus, there's like, something that happens in the body that keeps us in what I call a doom loop in healing mode. and that is hardly ever. I've not seen that addressed anywhere in, in, like, all the years that I've been in the coaching industry.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. You know, I can relate to what you're saying. I had that tendency of... Well, you know, in the context of me dealing with my trauma, I developed a lot of power and control issues. And there is this, like, I still have a bit of a perfectionist streak come out sometimes, but in the context of the healing work, you know, like, I definitely, I was like, okay, first of all, I was obsessed with... I got obsessed with in and out of the way mostly, I think, but trying to help myself get better because I was, like, very depressed and I'd hit the strong bottom and, you know, like, thankfully, you know, I didn't just kill myself. I mean, I'm not being exaggerating or trying to, you know, I actually got possibly suicidal, but, you know, it was just by the grace of God that, like, literally that I didn't, you know, take that path of trying to end my life in an active way, but rather, you know, it was like, okay, you know what? I have to get help. And I forced myself at that point to actually reach out for help because, like, I cannot help myself. I've tried everything that I could to help myself. It wasn't working, wasn't enough. So I forced myself to reach out for help, and thank God, I started making some progress. And when I started making progress. That, sort of like got me addicted to like, okay, I have to learn more, I have to learn more, I have to get better, I can get better, I will get better... And like you said, at some point, I did sort of like fall in love with being in healing mode to so much that, you know, like I had already, you know, started having visions and dreams for my future and what I could do, what I wanted to do, what my heart was guiding me towards. But I kept putting taking that action off because I was like, no, I need to learn more. I need to get even better. And I don't know enough yet. I'm not healed enough yet etc…

FEMKE: Yeah. And, you know, it becomes this, like this cycle because we want to get it. It's not like, this is not like a deliberate process, right. It's very subconscious, but it's something that I've kind of come to understand or realize is that, and I actually love what you said by that, by the grace of God, right. Because one of the, like, in my journey, I did the exact same thing, and it was always, like, almost like forcing healing and holding on to control, but still playing it small and staying sick. And I was, you know, back in 2007-18, I was I had developed my own coach training system, very transformational. And yet I still could see that, like, there was this invisible ceiling for people and also for myself. And what I noticed is that, like, what we would focus on most is what I've been trained in is that fear of not being good enough and the fear of rejection or abandonment. Those two were the big things and then I read this article from a friend of mine, and she mentioned Greg Braden's three universal fears that he mentioned in the Divine Matrix. And he taught, so he mentioned those first two, and I was like, okay, that's what I'm seeing from, like, my expertise. I can, those are the patterns that we're detecting.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: The third universal fear kind of like was a gut punch because I had... It was completely invisible to me, which is the fear of trust.

SAMIA: The fear of trust…

FEMKE: The fear of trust.

SAMIA: Fear of trust. Oh, interesting. Okay, okay. Tell me more…

FEMKE: So that translates to the fear of letting go of control, right? If I let go of control and I trust what is out of my control, that activates my nervous system. And when I read that, it was... Like the world opening up and the world crumbling down at the same moment, because everything that I had known up until then was like, oh, wait a minute. This is like, there's something here that, why it hasn't worked. And so I started researching that. So over the last, like, seven years, five, seven years, I've been, like, really exploring that first on an intellectual level, and then, you know, applying it to myself. How does letting go work? And I've come to realize that our focus in coaching therapy is often on the nervous system, right. What's wrong with the nervous system? It has to be regulated. Actually, there's nothing wrong with the nervous system. It's doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: Issue is something that happens right before that, and that's related to that fear of trust. And it's a sensation in the body, when the body registers something is out of my control. It's a moment of relaxation. But because that moment of relaxation of like, oh, this is out of my hands, is so distorted and is linked to a core belief and a core pain that keeps us stuck. That gets us in our nerve, that gets us in our, like, activated nervous system. Most people don't even feel that sensation in their body unless it's like a panicked sensation of, this is out of my hands. And it goes so quick in the body that all we register is, I feel anxious, I feel numb, I feel confused, overwhelmed. Those are all escape mechanisms and they're not the problem. The problem is when the body registers something is out of my hands, and that happens in so many different situations, right. Other people's opinions, if I have a desire or a want, if I don't know something, if I don't have clarity on something, there's something that's out of my hands. And the body registers it. And because the body, the subconscious mind, is like, hey, wait a minute, this is dangerous. Because this means the universe is against me. God hates me. I'm all alone, or it's related to certain memories.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: And on top of that, there's nothing I can do about it.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: We contract around it. And so it's that fear of trust that keeps us in healing mode and that actually stops us from feeling free on the inside, even if we check all the boxes of success on the outside.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. What you're saying makes a lot of sense. Ah, I mean, obviously, all the three fears, the fear of trust, the fear of abandonment, the fear of not being good enough. In my mind, they're very much connected to each other. And you know, like if you and like for me, I definitely had a fear of trust as you describe it. Like I mentioned, I had developed very strong power and control issues. I was so scared of feeling out of control, let alone actually being out of control.

FEMKE: Yeah, yeah.

SAMIA: You know, and so but it's like a losing battle that you fight because it's like there's the reality is that there is actually next to nothing that is within our control. Like, even when you think from a very empowered perspective and you think about, you know, what you can actually control, even then, you know, there's very little that is within your control. And so, you know, like for me, I became, you know, like in my behavior, the way that I try to cope, especially like when I was younger, you know, it comes out in little obsessive behaviors like you know, I want everything in my room to be just so. And if anyone moves at anything, if anyone touches my stuff, I was like having a big explosion. I remember having meltdowns because one time my sister threw away a deodorant stick. And she was like, oh, I thought it was used up. I was like, how dare you throw away my deodorant stick? You know, like, this complete, like, overreaction to even little things like that. I mean, now I can see that there were overreactions, but in that moment, it felt to me like such a huge violation of you know, my space and my rights and this and that because I just couldn't, my ability to tolerate feeling out of control was so low, so low, you know... And so, like for me, like a lot of that I mean, definitely connected to that was that I felt alone. A lot of that was connected to not feeling good enough, having a lot of shame and guilt, and just the trauma associated with being a survivor of child sexual abuse. So it just got really complex in terms of even trying to figure out what was needed. And you're actually right in that it's only been like it's amazing how there's such little focus on this issue of letting go because it's only been, I would say, in the last four or five years that I have met teachers and mentors who have really got me focused on it. So now I'm thinking about letting go all the time. But it's only been like relatively recently in my journey that I've come across it. And now when I think about and talk about letting go. In some ways, I'm still, like, figuring out how to incorporate what I'm learning into my coaching because I'm learning about it in a context of deep spiritual practices, you know. And so I'm like, still, like, because most of my coaching is still, like grounded in positive psychology and, you know, the those fields where, you know, these more deep spiritual practices that I'm now learning and practicing for myself. I'm not always sure how to share them with my clients.

FEMKE: Right.

SAMIA: I'm working on it. But, you know, there's a bit of a...

FEMKE: Yeah. And I think that, I mean, you know, like, I learned in coaching, you don't... But, you know, it's like releasing of all your own beliefs, everything. And so you don't really place anything on your client. And so when I initially started working, because I do, I do see this as, like, such a deep spiritual practice, but at the same time, because even in, like, you know, like in spirituality or in religion, they talk about surrendering and then they talk about surrender. But very often it's much more like a cognitive approach. Right? And then so how do you...

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: That's what I think is the beauty of bringing it all together and making it practical. Like what happens in the body that makes you not trust.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: And funnily enough, like I started, you know, my clients, I have... I work with... I'm non-denominational so I work with people who don't have no concept of God. I mean, everyone has a concept of God one way or another, but people like who are consider this themselves atheists, to Christians, to Muslims. I've worked with like, all of them, like, you know, people who, like, are Jewish. And what I find absolutely fascinating is that, and I had to find a language for that, too, right? To not inject my own thoughts or feelings about it, but that every time that I help someone, to back to their essence, back to innocence, and then feel into what they are connected with. And for some people, that's God. Some people, it's God and they resist it. So then we have to do some work there. For other people, it is the universe, life force, nature. Doesn't matter, right?

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: Every time I ask them, what does that connection feel like? And they all, like, they say it's very grounded in unconditional love.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: Always. And so…

SAMIA: ..yeah.

FEMKE: That's how, like, how I started to, I don't have to put the words to it. Clients will find it. But the key thing there is that for a lot of people, spirituality is separate, right. Even if... So the like couple of weeks ago, I worked with a client, did a coaching demo in front of my group, and she said, yeah, but I've done all the meditation and it's very easy for me to get into that place of nothingness, oneness... But then I have to go back into my body and it's really hard. And I see, at that point, it's like this separate thing other than, oh, like, hey, wait a minute, I need to bring this into my body and I need to connect it with that sensation of something is out of my hands, was in the body. That is such a trigger.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: And have desensitized that trigger and build a new relationship with it. So I call that going from your loop of your Doom Loop to your Loop of Faith.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. I mean, the, no, you're so right. You know, and this is the, my gosh, there's just so much in what you have just said. But, you know, for those of us who have some kind of religious or faith tradition that we have grown up with, you know, so you have a concept of God and, you know, I'll talk about Muslims and Islam for a moment because, you know, that's my tradition. And it's so ironic. It's so ironic for me now because the very word Islam, you know, one of the core meanings of it, I say one of the core meanings, because actually it's an Arabic word. In Arabic is a interesting language, like, like Hebrew, where every word is made out of certain roots. And, you know, the roots have multiple connotations. And so any word that you generate out of any root can have multiple meanings. And, you know, you narrow like how... So then how do you understand what a word means when you speak it in any particular context? Well, you have to figure it out based on the context in which you're using the word, right. And so the word Islam has multiple meanings and actually even in the way that Muslims use and understand the word Islam, it has multiple meanings. One of the core meanings is surrender or submission depending on how you choose to look at it. Surrender or submission. And so it's key value, a key principle, a key idea within Islam to, you know, like practice surrender, practice submission, practice... I could say like on the, another word for it is letting go.

FEMKE: Right. 

SAMIA: So it's actually, you know, so even with this reality being the case and me growing up as a practicing Muslim in a family of practicing Muslims, I think the problem that I have identified is that we just never went deep enough. Not that Islam doesn't teach us to go deep enough, but that we as practitioners and learners never went deep enough in our learning and practice. So when we thought about surrender, about letting go, about submitting, we kept it at a surface level. you know, so for example, now the teachers are working with, they say, you know, you have to even let go of your desires. You have to let go of everyone. You have to let go of just everything off you. And, like and, like, there's that... Like, I didn't get it. I didn't get how important and critical that was. And there was a part of me, like, when I first learning about it, I was like, no, what? What are you talking about? Like, for example, you know, like, just to say, like, one of. One day my teacher was like, yeah, you know, even all of your relationships. like you. You have to let go. You have to submit. You have to surrender your relationship. But it was like, but my relationships are my life, you know. How... What are you talking about? But it's like, you know. But, you know, it's like, yeah, no, you have to let go. Not like you're letting go like you don't care about them anymore or you're disconnecting yourself. But it's the letting go of the control, and the need for control that you're letting go and. And you are stepping into the trust aspect of you know, like, no, it's like I'm letting go of the control. Everything is still there. We're still connected. It's like you, even if you tried to break the connection, you can't break the connection.

FEMKE: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think we often hold on so much to how, what it looked like or how things should come about.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: And, you know, like, so when I first started exploring this, I read this book by Michael Singer, his book, the Surrender Experiment.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: Right in the beginning, he talks about, he describes like everything in this universe unfolds as it should perfectly without our interference. And so then who are we to think that we have to kind of control that unfolding, right. And so like just like an apple tree unfolds and creates and grows apples. He wanted to do this experiment of like, okay, what if I let go of all control and resistance and just let my life unfold? And the first time I read that, I was like, because, you know, like in Law of Attraction, there is a lot of control of like, I'm gonna visualize what I want. And stuff like that. And so I was like, I'm gonna go with that option because no way I'm ever gonna do that. And now, like, I think when you really do go deep enough, find that, like, oneness that it is like, oh, wait a minute. Everything is okay.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: And there is nothing to want or and I do believe also that, you know, when you are in that place and, like, a deeper desire pops up, that you can set that desire free, right. That you can just let it, like, I don't know, bloom or whatever, because it's coming from that place, the unknown. But we don't have to figure out the how. We don't have to focus on when, with whom, where, and want to control all of that. But it's…

SAMIA: Yeah. No, you're so right. You know, I just reminded me of a conversation that I was having with one of my people where I was talking about, oh, you know, we need to let it go, let it all go. And so this person that I was talking to, she's actually also sort of in the coaching space, and there's a lot of, has both been through a lot of coaching and sort of like dabbling into now coaching herself. And she does really great work, actually. She, I've actually even worked with her on some things where she's really helped me. She's a really amazing relationship expert. And in any case, but when we started talking about letting it all go, like one of her concerns that came up, she was like, well, but like I can't let go of, you know, like envisioning what I mean, what I want. Because otherwise, how am I supposed to stay in action? Like, what's going to motivate me? Because it's like when I, you know, she was talking about basically this practice or this experience of, you know, going into these coaching spaces where they, where, you know, your mentor, your coach is like, okay, now we're going to make our envision, our dream of how we're going to be and how we're going to live. We're, you know, five years from now, how it's going to be. And then, you know, we're going to create this plan for how we're going to make it happen, you know, like that process. And so, you know, like, so first you go through the process of envisioning and stuff, and then, you know, you create your plan. And then what happens is that you get into control mode, right. I mean thinking like because now you have a plan and you have to follow, you better make it happen. And if it's not happening, you're like, oh no, I'm, what am I doing wrong? You know, I'm not doing enough. And then, you know, oh my gosh, the law of attraction, what's wrong? Why is it not working? You know, so you get into this whole cycle but at the same time the thought of I'm like, don't let it all go, let it all go. But it's like, no, but then what keeps me in action? What motivates me? Then I'm aimless. I don't know what I'm doing.

FEMKE: Right. Yeah. Like my experience has been that that surrender actually puts you in inspired action. And when you take action from there, like, it has so much more, I guess, magnetism to it, you know, like, that's, I don't have another way of describing that, but, you know, anytime I create from that place, the reactions and the like, whatever shows up as a result of that is stuff that I couldn't even have imagined. And then if I don't, like, if I... Then it becomes like a drudge. But I also think that for a lot of people doing is like an escape, right. Because, like, rest, relaxation that's, like, not done. So this whole waiting for inspired action and just enjoying yourself in the meantime is, like, counter-intuitive.

SAMIA: Yeah. And, you know, the thing is, though, that you like to say that, you know, we're gonna wait even for inspired action. I think even that thought is a little bit misleading ourselves because when you are following this path of letting it go and taking inspired action. Even if you don't realize what you're doing is inspired action, it's inspired action like you were saying, you know, like to have trust that everything is unfolding in the perfect way. Anyway, so it's like, I don't know. It's like, I may not realize how it's unfolding in the perfect way for me right now and what it's leading me to, but it comes back to that trust. Do I have trust that it is, in fact, happening, you know? And so, like, for me, you know. Like, this was like many years back, maybe 10 years ago or something. I went to one of these conferences. It was meant to be a transformational seminar. And our teacher Mentor, he actually took us through a beautiful process where we connected with our heart and, you know, our heart and, you know, did a prayer and, like, heart, please show us, you know, the vision for our we should strive for live into a etc., this and that. And so it wasn't like any, like whatever the vision was, whatever the dream was that I saw at that time, it wasn't anything that my mind came out with. And I realized that because it was beyond any of my wildest imaginations. And it was beyond. anything that I would have dared to honestly dream. Because when I had, after wards, when I thought about putting a logical plan together to make that dream happen, I couldn't even... I was like, I'm not good enough. I don't know enough. I don't know enough. And it was all true, by the way. like, logically, practically, I didn't know enough. I didn't have enough and so forth. But, you know, it comes back to... So actually, that threw me into a downward spiral of contraction. 

FEMKE: Yeah.

SAMIA: But interestingly, like, I have, it keeps coming back like that vision, that dream, it used to go away every time I connected with my heart. If anything, it grows even grander.

FEMKE: Right, right, right.

SAMIA: Yeah…

FEMKE: Like, that's the, that's the thing, too, right? Is that our focus often is like with, if we bring it back to healing mode, why we stay, is because when we have that big dream, even sometimes the imagination of it can be too much to hold.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: But to actually embody and experience that level of abundance and, you know, freedom and success.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: Like, to really step into that, that requires, I think, an even bigger trust than, like, when we fear that we're not gonna get what we want. Right?

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. And so like for me, the practice, the beautiful thing is that now that, you know, especially in the last four or five years as I mentioned, I've been, you know, working with teachers and mentors on this practice of letting go. What I'm realizing and noticing is that as I've been getting better and better, letting it all go, my no means perfect at it. Not even close. 

FEMKE: Right. Yeah no...

SAMIA: But the better I get at it, you know, like, things are happening that, you know, like, it's still not always clear where things are heading, but sometimes I get these glimmers of, oh, this just happened, and I just experienced this, and maybe this is a tiny piece of that puzzle to make that big dreams come true realization, you know. And so, and I'm just not working on not getting up fast, but figuring it out and trying to control it and just being like, no, you know what? Letting it go, letting it go, letting it unfolds. So and it's been such a game changer in terms of my mental health, in terms of my physical health, in terms of my spiritual health. It's just like…

FEMKE: It is, right?

SAMIA: So much better. 

FEMKE: Inner freedom. Yeah, like it's yeah. I don't think we all realize when we're in it how much contraction we hold on to and the damage that it does to our bodies. And I like something that I see a lot of people, they can stay in that control through their 20s and their 30s, and then they go into the 40s and like they don't have like the excess energy anymore. To keep that going.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: And that's when you see like, oh my gosh, I tried it all.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: And it's, but it's the letting go. And for me, I can only remember being in contraction. You know, from very, from a very early age. So for me, though, I remember, like, I did one time I did a training and someone, like, when we had to do, like, presentations, and it was like a coach, like a trainer's training, and we had to kind of tell each other how you have to present, right. And so this one guy said to me, like, I want you to present as if you're like a puppet on a string, right. So, hey, like, I'm handing over control to the person controlling me, the puppet. And it stuck with me because I had to really relax my body rather than, like, being, you know, like this tight

.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: Yeah, tension. And it was... Yeah, I've had these, like, sprinkles. I think they're like. They were like signals of, hey, lady, relax…

SAMIA: Yeah. And, you know, I think, like, for me, one of the tricky things that I had to realize and figure out in terms of just letting go thing in order to actually relax about the idea of letting go enough to be like, okay, I'm going to give it a try. It's like, I had to, had to think about it from a spiritual perspective. I could not, even now, like, if you tell me, let go of control in the context of any of my human relations. I'm going to say no. I mean, to a certain extent, yes, but in a complete way? Absolutely, no. There's no way I'm giving up my right to think for myself, giving up my right to decide, you know, to give up my right to be like, you know, like, if there's a moral ethical issue, my right to, you know, follow my own sense of what's right and what's wrong, there's no way I'm willing to give up that right to any other human being. There's no way I'm doing that. So the only context in which I'm willing to let it a goal is in my relationship with my maker, my creator, the Divine. Because, you know, that is the only relationship that, you know, I can feel even theoretically that justifies such a complete letting go or makes sense to engage in such letting go. Because again, like for me, my conception of my creator, my God, is that my God is all merciful, all compassionate, he's all knowing, all wise, right. And so my God is the only being in the context of whom it even makes sense for me to let it all go. No other human being is all wise or all knowing or all compassionate, all merciful, etc. You know? So…

FEMKE: And I think also, like, we can't control other people.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: I think that that's the whole point of that fear of trust. The focus often is on, I can't trust other people or I can't trust myself or I can't trust my body. But at that higher level, I call it the unknown because I work with so many different, you know, faiths and I want to honor whatever someone has in their heart. So I call that the unknown. It's like this creative force that has, that connects us all. That's the, that's what we need to trust. And when that, and I think there's so many, for me, even just being born is what initiates, what kind of initiates a sense of separation, that oneness, right. We forget that oneness. And then there is so much control from people around us. And we look to humans for unconditional love, which is near impossible. Ideally, we, that's what we, you know, provide our children with. And we can feel that in our heart. But that doesn't mean that our children experience it in that way, especially when we, when there is so much control. I was thinking about this yesterday because we, I do, like, free schooling with my son, and that means that he gets to choose what he learns. And we're kind of radical in that he doesn't have. He's sovereign, right. He gets to decide his bedtime, what he wants to eat. We have conversations about it, but I realized. How control still sneaks in. Like, if he has a conflict with a friend, I'm uncomfortable with it. And I want to control that it gets back to harmony, right. So I will, I will, like, start asking him questions, but I never even asked him permission. Are you okay? Do you want my help? How do you want my help? So in a way that because so much of our power is taken away, we kind of draw really big conclusions from that. Like, I feel powerless. This doesn't. And this feels painful, so I cannot trust.

SAMIA: Yeah, you know, it's interesting to think about a parent-child relationship and issues of control. Because, like, with kids, I've actually tried to explore this with some other people. I've never been able to go deep enough because. So maybe that's something you and I can get into. And I don't know if you'll have time to do that today. We might have to just bring you back, Femke…

FEMKE: Yeah.

SAMIA: Oh, gosh. But, yeah, because, you know, but just to at least share the thought I'm having right now is.

FEMKE: Yeah.

SAMIA: You know, like the thing that I'm not a parent, first of all, I should say that, but, you know, I am a child. I have been, you know, like really reflecting on the parent-child relationship in the last year or two, especially not only because I want to improve my relationship with my parents, but also because, you know, I have like so many little ones in my life in terms of nieces and nephews and just other kids in my life. And on the one hand, you know, you're like, okay, they don't know. I mean, especially the younger they are, like, the little babies and all, like, you literally have to do everything for them. They're, like, completely depending on you. And then even as they're growing up, like, you're, like, questioning how much capacity does my child have to understand this or that in terms of if I want to help them process this or understand that, like if they are wanting something that I think is bad for them, you know, like it just, you know, like I was realizing I had some theories of how I would deal with a situation. But in the reality of like when I was actually with my niece or nephew and we were dealing with a concrete situation, you know, like some kind of tantrum or disagreement on what was good for them to do in that moment. All the stories that I had in my mind kind of I couldn't always follow through or they went down the drain.

FEMKE: Yeah.

SAMIA: And so you know, there's that, you know, and I'm like, oh, gosh, okay, you go to your parents. I haven't got this figured out yet…

FEMKE: Still give them back. But, you know, I am finding that the more I try to control, even, like, if I'm not aware of it, right. Because it's like, oh, no, you can't have conflict, or you can't, you know, like, you can't... There's, like, still so many rules that I hold. And then, like, you know, my kid said, like, why do we always have to talk about everything, you know. And I did not ask for his permission or, like, to give my advice. As adults, you know, like we don't always like uninvited.

SAMIA: Yeah.

FEMKE: Either. So it's, but it's, you know, like it's just like a really interesting journey because there's something that you said earlier about like giving up, you know, your,  that trust is related to your maker, your creator. and you're not. And that you don't want to necessarily hand over control to other people, right, over your sovereignty. And I think, I think sovereignty and trust in the unknown, in the Creator, the maker go hand in hand. Mutually exclusive. And so it's like... Yeah, that's like a. I think a journey. But I've what I'm seeing with my clients is that when they embody that trust, right, not just cognitively understand, but deeply feel into that oneness and the trust, then all of a sudden, other people's opinions no longer matter because there's like this really deep in intuition. And I think it's because we are one right with our creator, with our maker. But that's what I find fascinating. And the same thing with not being good enough. When they are in that space and I ask them, how do you now feel about yourself? Huh, I actually really like myself. I even love myself here. And people have been trying to fix that for decades. And in one conversation, when they feel that oneness doesn't mean that they are walking out of that session. Always feeling that Oneness. But when they feel that, all of a sudden, all those other things just drop away.

SAMIA: Yeah, you know, it's a little bit funny where now that, you know, more and more I'm grounded, I'm working on being even more grounded in this. You know, feelings of connection. And so, you know, being in joy and gratitude, I've developed such good self-esteem and, you know, like, sometimes now I forget that not everyone is where I'm at in terms of, like, just the other day, I was having a conversation. I'm, like, part of this committee of people. I won't get into detail about what it's about, but someone was like, oh, could you be experiencing this problem with that person? Because they don't like you because, you know, they're being racist against you or something like that. And my first I didn't say it out loud. But my first thought was, the violence, they're not like me, I'm so lovable.

FEMKE: Yeah…

SAMIA: Oh gosh…

FEMKE: Yeah.

SAMIA: And then I had to remind myself, no, no, there are many perspectives from which, you know, people could have a problem with me.

FEMKE: Yes. You know, maybe you're not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and that's okay.

SAMIA: Yeah. That is okay. And I don't mind. I don't mind. I'm okay with that. I still love myself so much. Oh, gosh, Femke, you know, I want to keep talking to you, and I'm keeping an eye on the clock, and I see that we need to wrap up for today. Do you have any last thoughts for us to share right now?

FEMKE: No, I mean, I could also go for hours. Like, I love chatting with you. And I have to say, I'm so happy that you reached out again, because I know that you reached out a couple of years ago, and it wasn't the right time at that time. But I'm so glad that you reached out again and that we got to connect.

SAMIA: Yes. Everything is unfolding in the perfect way all the time, right. Yay! Thank you so much, Femke. So I look forward to continuing our chat with you another time. And in the meantime, I just want to remind all of you listening to please make sure you check the show notes because we will be dropping Femke's links in there so you can connect with her and get the help and support you need, whenever you feel ready for it. So until we connect next time, I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy… :)