From Perfection to Peace: Lessons from a Recovering Type A Personality.

From Perfection to Peace:
Lessons from a Recovering Type A Personality.
Vicki Goodman & Samia Bano

Are you a driven professional? A #perfectionist or #controlfreak?

Struggling to balance your #lifeinthefastlane as you juggle countless responsibilities?

Or perhaps you're a type B hard-pressed to decipher the motivations of a type A in your life...

Listen now to this interview with Vicki Goodman, #Author of "Speed Bumps and Other Impediments to Life in the Fast Lane" to learn about Vicki's transition from the constant drive of a Type A life to finding #innercalm and #balance -- and you can too!

Through #humor, heartfelt insights, and wisdom, Vicki shares how learning to slow down, accept imperfection, and #trusttheprocess leads to more #authentichappiness and #selfawareness.

Vicki reminds us that #thriving isn’t about doing more — it’s about being more at #peace with #whoyouare.

Connect with Vicki and get her book now at: https://vickiparisgoodman.com/

NOTE: Vicki steers clear of a clinical analysis of the type A, instead focusing on her personal triumphs and failures. She reveals how her relentless #pursuitofexcellence often became an obstacle rather than a #pathtosuccess. Her vivid storytelling paints a picture of the internal and external #pitfalls encountered by those who live life in overdrive.

Speed Bumps is not just a #memoir, but a guide to understanding the importance of self-awareness and #humility. The book’s narrative encourages readers to reflect on their own experience, and offers insights illuminating the path to greater balance and fulfillment.

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#SelfGrowth #LifeLessons #LettingGo #MindsetShift #EmbraceImperfection #InnerPeace #FamilyHealing #SelfAwareness #SelfDiscovery #TransformationJourney #EmpowerYourMind #OvercomingFear #PositiveChange #RiseAbovePain #HeartCenteredLiving #AwakenYourSoul #GrowthMindset #LifePurpose #EmotionalFreedom #ThrivingBeyondTrauma #liveyourbestlife

Here's the audio version of this episode:

Full Video Transcript

SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry! Ah, it's so good to be with you all again. And I know you'll be so happy you're joining us because we have a very cool and special returning guest with us today, and that is Vicki Paris Goodman, who is an author. And in just a moment, we're going to talk about one of her books. But before we do that, welcome again, Vicki.

VICKI: Oh, thank you for having me, Samia. I'm very excited to be back.

SAMIA: Yeah, I'm so happy to have you back. We had such a fun conversation last time in one of your books. That one was related to, I mean, you wrote that book after your husband Sam passed away and you were sharing some of the really important lessons that you have learned after his passing. And that was such a meaningful conversation. And I learned so much from you, and I'm so happy to have you back.

VICKI: Yeah, I'm really happy to be back. And I'm excited to talk about the new book. So, you know, I have to thank you.

SAMIA: Oh, no, tell us more. Okay, so tell us this book, it's a new book and it's on a very different topic. Tell me more about it.

VICKI: Well, it's called Speed Bumps and Other Impediments to Life in the Fast Lane. And it's about the trials of life from the point of view of a type A personality. So perhaps not everyone knows what a type A personality is. So it's basically your impatient, driven type of person who, you know, if it's in a work environment, for example, you know, the more work that comes that person's way, the faster they're going to work to keep up. Whereas the more relaxed type A personality works at one speed, regardless of deadlines and, you know, and urgency. And, you know, the type A tends to be confrontational, you know, most people I find avoid confrontation. They're uncomfortable with it. I, and a number of other type A's I know do not avoid confrontation, you know, it's like oh, you want to engage, you know, let's get to it, you know. And so the danger there is that, you know, you need to avoid it escalating into aggression. You need to keep it in the assertiveness range, you know. So, you know, the enemy of the type A is anything that gets in the way, any inconvenience, any obstacle to getting to the destination, whether it be a physical destination, you know, while you're driving, or whether it just be sort of a figurative destination, meaning just a goal in life well, I've got to get this done. Oh, no, I can't because, you know, the plumbing needs to be repaired or something, and I have to take care of that first. So, you know, these things where a type B, a more relaxed person would take this in stride. The type A is, oh my gosh! What am I gonna do? You know, I have something I need to get done, and I can't because this other thing happened. So anyway, you know, it's kind of this type of thing that I have been an example of pretty much all my life. I'm not proud of it, but I know there are others out there who exhibit these same tendencies. And I wrote the book to help them to let them know they're not alone, because I think there's some shame in some of the behaviors, you know, impatience is never a good thing. And if anything type A tends to be impatient, and we're not proud of it. We're sometimes ashamed of our behavior and so I wrote the book in order to let other type A's know that they're not alone. And also I know that there are type B's out there. My husband Sam was a type B. He was always scratching his head over the way I was reacting to things, you know. And so the book is also for those type B's that have type A's in their lives to understand the motivations and behaviors better. So what makes this book unique, I think, is that most, you know, there's a lot of literature written on personality types, but they're all of the ones I've ever seen are written from a clinical perspective by psychology professionals. I am not a psychology professional. Nothing of the kind, I wrote the book purely to tell stories about my experience as a type A. So it's very relatable to other type A's or again, to type B's who have type A's in their lives.

SAMIA: Oh, I love that, you know, there is something in fact, I was just talking about this earlier with someone about the value of learning from someone who has been through whatever the challenges that you are trying to learn about and deal with in your own life. Because, you know, theoretical knowledge is of course, you know, whatever you can get, it's valuable in its way. But it's like until you actually experience a certain challenge and then you go through the process of managing it, dealing with it, overcoming it. There's just things that you cannot get about it, just based on theoretical, you know, understanding or learning. And yeah, there's just something about learning from someone who's been through what you may be currently challenged with that is so. I mean, not only helpful, but, you know, I was actually reflecting about the fact that this was, like many years ago when I was back in college, and some of the very first people that I opened up to about being a survivor of child sexual abuse was other survivors. And I felt so much safer and more comfortable opening up to fellow survivors because I had been so afraid of being judged and shamed and blamed. But that was a group of people that I felt, okay, here someone like if I share with them, they won't blame me, shame me, judge me, or at least likely to do that. And so it was, like such a healing experience for me to hear other survivors share their stories. And then when I, you know, for many months, all I did was I just sat and listened to other survivors sharing their stories. And I'm talking about having joined a club on campus. That was about, It was like It was called the Clothesline project. And the whole project, it's about, you know, creating space for survivors and friends and family to come and talk about issues of sexual abuse. And a lot of it was survivors sharing their experiences, sharing their stories, and being there for each other as peer support, you know, we usually didn't like, sometimes they would invite in a psychologist or some other kind of professional person to give some kind of a lecture or something like that. But most of the time, the goal was, let's give each other, like, peer support. And was like, so helpful. And like for me, like I said, for the first so many months of my attending the club meetings, all I did was I listened to other survivors ready to share my own story. But when I started finally feeling like, okay, I want to share my story, that was like, the safe container and environment that I was able to do it in.

VICKI: Yeah, I'm glad to hear you say that I think it applies to so many things that we feel shame about, and I'm sure that not all type A's feel shame, you know, I actually think I was a pretty extreme example of this personality type. I think a lot of people have type A tendencies, but maybe not all of the ones that I have are described in the book. So, you know, you're gonna read the book and relate to some of it and not other parts of it. But as I said, I think I was a pretty extreme example. So, you know, I'm sure there are people out there who had self control while they were making their way through all these stressful situations in life, you know, than I did. But I know there are some people who aren't proud of the way they behaved in every situation, you know, and this book is for all those people that could relate to these things, you know, I really bared my soul in this book, you know, not I have to say I'm kind of proud of it because I'm not sure everyone could have been so brutally honest about the things they're most ashamed of, you know, that they've experienced in life. And there are a lot of things I'm proud of too, and those are in the book also because type A's tend to be very productive but, you know, and they get a lot done and you know, so that there are definitely positive aspects to the type A. I think in the workplace, for example, I think team projects really benefit from participation of both type A and type B because the type B's serve as a calming influence on the type A's. And the type A's are really good for getting the type B's to maybe take a risk here and there, you know, maybe learn a little more about, you know, just tiny little bits of confrontation. And, you know, those things are good getting them, getting those type B's to expand their comfort zones a little. I think type A's are naturally better at taking risks and stretching their comfort zone a little bit. I never advocate, by the way, for anybody to stretch their comfort zone too much, you know, it's always got to be gradual, you know, because it creates anxiety to stretch your comfort zone. And so, you know, I think that the gradual expansion is the best way to go because we can tolerate that level of anxiety and then maybe later on we'll try for the thing that was too much before. And yeah, so anyway, I'm kind of all over the place here. But yeah, those things are in the book. Oh, I know, yeah, I know what I was gonna say. So I really bared my soul in the book, and some friends of mine who read the book said, oh my God, I thought I knew you, but I guess I really didn't. Or at least I didn't know certain things about you, you know, we all keep things hidden and I kind of undid that in this book. So, yeah.

SAMIA: That was very brave of you, for sure. And I'm sure lots of people will really benefit from your being so honest and so brave. And you just, you know, the relationship between type A and type B's, you just made me think about. In the last year or two, I have been working with somebody who is a bit of a type A, and I'm definitely more type B personality, and it's been actually really helpful for me to be working with our.

VICKI: Really, how?

SAMIA: Yeah. Okay, so like so basically, you know, a couple of years ago one of my uncles passed away. And then I found out, oh, that he has made me his trustee. And his trust has like, rental properties, real estate properties. And I had no experience of, like managing real estate, dealing with tenants, things like that. And so luckily for me, when I stepped into the role of being trustee and starting to have to deal with all these things that were really new for me, into my life came one of the people that my uncle had worked with and who had really helped him. She's actually a realtor and real estate investor herself, and she has like, 30, 40 years of experience, she has like, over 20 properties of her own that, you know, she rents and manages and things like that. And she I mean, I swear, it's like all the grace of God, and God putting kindness in her heart. She decided to take me under her wing. And she has been like, just so helpful with guiding me through little things, big things, and one of the big things that we had to do was I realized one of the buildings that my uncle had, the trust was unfortunately not doing very well financially. We actually, we were like in a serious, going into a serious loss because of it. And so then I was like, oh my gosh, I think we're gonna have to sell this place. But before we could sell it, there was like, just in order for us to get the best price that we could, you know, we were like. Okay, let's fix these big glaring problems that we're having so that it's in much better condition than, you know, what it is now. And a lot of it had to be liked, not a lot, but some of the big problems that we were dealing with were related to the tenants in the property who basically were not taking very good care of the place. Like, we had a couple of apartments in the building or like, the people were hoarders, and they're like, full of stuff and lack of hygiene and, you know, those kinds of things.

VICKI: Yeah.

SAMIA: And like, you know me, I have like, okay, I don't want to judge how anyone is living and everyone's going through their own thing and, you know, being I do not like confrontation. I used to hate confrontation and all costs, but I'm better at dealing with conflict now. But, you know, certainly it's not my preference, like concentration is not my preferred mode of relating with people, but it's been like that so I was trying to go about it with my usual strategies of being very understanding and sort of gentle and stuff. And it did help I think it was good that I was there with that approach, but it was also really good that my, I got I think of her as my mentor now that she was there because she came in and she just put in a level of energy and she put in, she was like, oh no, this is not going to fly you she took a much tougher stance, let's say with some of the tenants and he was like, you got to get this done, you have to change, this is not acceptable. And we're going to give you two weeks to clean this up.

VICKI: See, type A's are good for situations like that, yeah.

SAMIA: Yeah, and so I think we ended up actually creating a good balance because my mentor she actually told me, she said that she was surprised by how cooperative some of the tenants were actually being with us because she was like, usually when she deals with people on her own, she said she tends to get in conflict with people and with me there to calm everybody down and so forth. Actually, we ended up, you know, like we got everything done that we needed to get done and by and large, you know, everyone was happy that every, that it all got done because even the folks that we pushed to like, clean up and, you know, just things like that at the end of the process, they were like, ah, I feel so much better. Oh, this is like, you know, my place looks so amazing. And it's and we were able to, you know, like, give them various upgrades. Like, we were able to put in a new carpet and, you know, do new paint on the walls and fix this and fix that. And we couldn't have done that if they hadn't first cleaned up the place, you know. And so in the end, everyone came out happy. And I was like, yeah, I definitely couldn't have managed it on my own.

VICKI: You know, I just thought of an analogy that in writing this book, I never thought of it, but it was like you and your friend were the good cop and the bad cop. You were a good cop. And the type A now is always eager and willing to be the bad cop in these situations.

SAMIA: Well, I would like to think that we were both good just in different ways.

VICKI: Yeah.

SAMIA: Yeah.

VICKI: Well yeah, I mean, you got the job done because of the contributions of both of you, but it's still, you know, the good cop, bad cop scenario.

SAMIA: Yeah.

VICKI: Yeah, so I guess I can also tell you about some of the chapters in the book. For example, you know, I start off the book with a couple of chapters about where I think my type A tendencies came from.

SAMIA: Yes.

VICKI: I'm not sure they were just genetically, you know, that I was genetically predisposed to be this way, you know, I talk about how my mother, who I loved dearly, she for some reason denied me my own nature. She felt it was important for me to take on all of her opinions and judgments and tastes. And, you know, I tell a story in the book about when I was four years old and my mom took me to get party shoes. And we go to this store and there are all these girls dressy shoes in the window. And my mom says, so look in the window before we go in the store. What? Which shoes do you like? And I pointed to a pair of pink patent leather Mary Janes. And she said, oh no! No! We're getting black, because that's more, you know, versatile or practical. And she grabbed my arm and pulled me into the store. And I thought, what did I do to make her mad? You know, I get. Well, the upshot is that I never really expressed an opinion of my own again until I was about 40 years old, you know, I always was trying to think okay, what would mom think of this, you know, and of course, sometimes I'd get it right and sometimes I'd get it wrong because I can't read her mind. I knew her pretty well. But yeah, so I think that I was grasping for control pretty early in life. And I think type A's tend to be control freaks, at least in certain respects. And so I have some really fun chapters in here about, you know, kind of obsessive compulsive neatness. And, you know, I tell a story about how I had a friend over, you know, when I was maybe 7 years old, and my room was neat as a pin. Everything was exactly just, so the way I wanted it to be, and so of course, someone would come over to play and they'd see something too, you know, they admired your dresser and they'd pick it up and oh, that's neat and put it back down. And then, you know, my dilemma was can I leave it askew from the way I like it to be, or maybe not quite in the same place until my friend leaves, thereby preserving my reputation as a normal kid, or will I be too anxiety ridden doing that and will I have to pick it up and put it back the way I need it to be.

SAMIA: Yeah.

VICKI: While the friend is still there, you know, so I talk about that and then I talk about all the little, you know, my pet peeves and you know it. So the book is very funny in places, so let's see.

SAMIA: That's such a helpful insight though, that whatever the personality types we may be now, doesn't mean we were always like that, doesn't mean we always have to be like that. Because a lot of the behaviors we may be engaging in are maybe things that we have learned over time because of various experiences that we have had. And so it's not just, oh, I am this way because I am this way, but it's like, oh no, I may have picked up on some of these behaviors and ways of being because this is what I experienced. And once you are able to realize some of that, then you can also be like, oh, maybe I can change, and I've experienced that actually in my life. You made me think about, I mean, if being a control freak is something that typists deal with or have, I mean I used to be a big control freak. And like, for me I had actually a similar thing where one of the very few ways in which I felt I could have control in my life is by designating spaces that this is my space, these are my things, and I'm going to buy everything exactly as I want in this space. And like for me, I didn't worry about what anyone else would think about me in terms of coming if they came and messed things up because for one thing, I didn't have any friends. I had, I mean, I was very socially isolated. Like, I basically couldn't make our key friends. The only kids in my life were my brother and sister and my cousins, like the family that I lived with. And they got burned off of it. Like my little sister in particular, for her, when we were like little kids, she would come in and she'd want to like, check out one of my books or this or that, and I literally just pushed her out of my space and without any care for how that would make her feel. I think I was just too obsessed with, you know, keeping everything just as it was supposed to be.

VICKI: Oh, you know, yeah, I get it. You know, and then you feel bad about it later once you've matured and you realize what you did, you know, but she survived it. Right?

SAMIA: Yeah, I mean we have had quite a journey. Like, I think it was in college like, she and I ended up in college together, you know, she's two years younger than me, so to some ways, I was always, you know, ahead of her in class and school and so forth. And so we had limited interactions and opportunities to like, really, like, work together or study together, things like that. But once she got up with me in college like, I was in college already, but then she came in and she got admitted into the same college, things started to change, not only because. Well, there was something about the college environment where there were like, all of these different opportunities. Like, for example, even though we didn't end up taking any classes together, we ended up in different clubs on campus and different organizations and projects that were happening, and we ended up both participating in some of those same clubs and projects. And so we actually got to work together in ways that we had never really done. But also, it was that I couldn't just be treating her as my little sister in that environment. I had to treat her as a peer, fellow student. And so it sort of created some, I guess like, forced me to treat her in some more respectful ways.

VICKI: Yeah.

SAMIA: You know, but also I got to see a side of her that I was like, wow. I mean she's really into great at what she does, and she's so smart in all these different ways that I never appreciated before. And, you know, yeah, and I think I was also at an age where I was more open to working on myself. And I was already sort of working on my personal growth and healing. And so things just kind of worked out where in college we were able to really improve our relationship. And when we are, like my improving my relationship and my sister actually became a real catalyst for my being able to improve my relationship with pretty much everyone in my family especially. It was really great and certainly in that context, between me and my sister, she was the one who was more calm and grounded and reasonable and helpful and peaceful. And I used to be the one who was more dysregulated, definitely the control freak at that time and so forth, and now we are a lot more similar. Actually, just the other day, one of my cousins was remarking who we had not met for many years because she lives in a different state from us, but we went to attend a family wedding and she was like, oh, you know, I never realized how similar you and your sister were. Like, yeah, it's true we are now. We weren't always.

VICKI: Oh wow, yeah. Yes, well, I don't know. Samia, do you have any questions for me about this? I mean one thing I can say about what you were talking about is, you know, when type A's are kind of forced into a teamwork situation, let's say at work.

SAMIA: Yeah.

VICKI: They don't like that too much because being so controlling.

SAMIA: Yeah.

VICKI: They want to control how everything turns out with a project or whatever it is that you're teaming up on. And so if you're forced to relinquish some of that control because it's not just you, you've got other people, that's hard for the type A. It's also hard for them to delegate tasks if they don't have utter confidence that the person they're delegating it to is going to do it with the same exact, you know, perfection and astronomical high quality that they would have done themselves, you know. type A's are kind of all about if it's to be, it's up to me.

VICKI: So yeah, that's kind of another thing, you know, the last chapter in the book is kind of appalling in its title. I called it Road Rage 101. But I define road rage a little differently than we're used to thinking about it, you know, this is more about the impatience of driving, not threatening other drivers or, you know, pointing a gun at them or getting out and wanting to have fisticuffs with them. Nothing like that, I'm just talking about, you know, once again, the type A is presented with obstacles while trying to get to a goal or in this case, a destination. And, you know, obstacles show up, especially in the big cities, you know, in a million different ways, you know, it can be road construction. It can be just, you know, traffic, rush hour traffic. It can be a piece of furniture in lanes that fell off a pickup truck or, you know, whatever. There's all kinds of things, and this stuff drives a type A crazy. We don't want the obstacles, we don't want anything delaying us or inconveniencing us or forcing us to get to our destination later than expected. So it's kind of a funny chapter, you know, I know people have laughed while reading it, you know, and so I wrote that one too. And it's just all these different aspects of a type A. I even wrote a chapter about how a type A might engage in fun. I mean, you know, we're talking about a pretty wrought up character here, you know, that you would imagine. Can't have fun. Well, you know, the perfectionism and the drive, you know, kick in. And so I wrote this chapter about. It's called Olally Berry Madness. When another type A friend of mine and my poor husband Sam, we weren't married yet. The three of us go in search of, you know, a laliberry pie at four different establishments. I know nobody knows what an Olally Berry is, it's a BlackBerry. It's the best BlackBerry because they're both tart and sweet. They're delicious, and you make a fresh pie out of them. So there were in Long beach, California, where we lived in this neighborhood, there were four different places that in June would make Olally Berry pies. And everybody went nuts over them. They were so delicious, so we decided, you know, we would make a contest out of it to see if we could get, you know, pies from every one of those establishments, come home, taste them all, and see which one was the best. And, you know, and then there's another part of the chapter about the spelling of Olally berry and, you know, the parentage of the Olally berry, what berries were combined to make it. And, you know, it's a really fun chapter too. So, you know, but my husband Sam didn't know why we were my type A friend and I was so intent upon, you know, getting four pies so that we could taste them all. He says, at one point, I had to talk the manager into one of the establishments, into making a pie because they were about to close and they were all out. And so I told him the story about how we needed a pie from, you know, their restaurant that day, that night, in order to accomplish our goal. And, you know, Sam's just thinking, what is this? We have plenty of pie to enjoy. He didn't get it, you know, because he's a type B. So, but my friend David and I, you know, we had to have pie from all four places. So it, you know how a type A might engage in fun.

SAMIA: Yeah.

VICKI: A little quirky, but there you have it.

SAMIA: Hey, I can appreciate that way of having fun too. But tell me a little bit more, Vicki, about some of the solutions that you have found or how you've managed the sort of this, the challenging aspects of the type A personality. Because now you're a lot more calm and relaxed and, you know, you've dealt, learned how to deal with some of those more challenging aspects of being type A. Tell me a little more about some of the lessons you have learned and how any of our listeners who may be struggling with these issues, how they can help themselves or their loved ones.

VICKI: I am so glad you asked this question. And I can only take maybe 20% credit for the fact that I am a lot more relaxed now. In other words, I happened upon the solution. And what it was was when we were tired and Sam and I decided we would move from California to the mountains of central Arizona, small town life, suddenly I noticed it was a lot easier for me to stay calm. And the reason was because when I was in California, you know, Los Angeles area, traffic all over the place, stress at work, there wasn't enough downtime between stressful situations for me to come down from one before the next one happened. Once I got here, there were stressful things that happened every once in a while. But the difference was the stresses were so much fewer and farther between that it wasn't just, you know, the volcano named Vicki, just a kind of building to erupt. I would come down from, you know, the little annoyance or irritation or whatever it was or inconvenience before, you know, well, before the next one would happen. So I wasn't building I was just kind of going, you know, just up and down, a little bit and never, you know, going to the heights of, of my irritation and anger. And so, yes. I've done part of it myself, but because I've noticed there are a lot of people in this small town of mine who drive like maniacs. I don't do it, I'm not one of them anymore. Even though I think, and I'm very ashamed of this, I think that I was one of the ones who invented inpatient driving because I was doing it before road rage, before the term road rage was even coined. There was no name for it, you were just sort of the aggressive driver who was the, you know, empress of the avenue, you know, you were the one who controlled everything. And I don't do that anymore. So that part I take responsibility for, but really the lesson was the first thing and that I mean, if I had known that it would take moving to a less stressful environment in order to conquer this. This type A of craziness, I might have, you know, talked to Sam about moving away from, you know, the stressful, the more stressful environments earlier than we did.

SAMIA: Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense actually. I mean, that's true in so many situations where people are struggling for change, that the environment that they're in is actually part of what is creating some aspects of the challenge and preventing effective or easier easy solutions. And so oftentimes, changing your environment becomes a very important part of how you can make change more fun and easy, you know, I mean it's not impossible to create change in a challenging environment, but it's certainly more stressful, it's certainly more challenging than if you have a more helpful and supportive environment. And I think, yeah, even in the context of like, dealing with my trauma, that was true. Like, I had to like literally, like when my environments changed. And in my case also, it was like an accident of nature. I mean, not an accident, but like it wasn't something that I chose to do, but it happened to me in the sense that my family, my parents made a decision to move us, and so we literally like America. Like, now I'm living in Los Angeles in America, and this is the fourth country that I've lived in or that I'm now living in. I've lived in India, I've lived in Pakistan, I've lived in the Middle East, and now here we are in America. And every single time that we moved countries, it was like a big change in my environment. And now, especially now, when I look back at it I can literally track different breakthroughs that I had in my life and in my healing journey. That relates to the changes in the environment that I experienced. And I don't know how else those changes might have occurred in my life without the change of environment, you know, like, I mentioned college being such a transformational experience for me. And so, like, for me, it was like I was right at. Around college age when my family, we moved to America. And so, you know, like, not only was I in a different country, but like, I was in an American college, an American educational college environment. Like, first of all, if I had been back in Pakistan or India, I don't know if I could have even afforded to go to college. So that's one thing. But even if I had been in college back there, the environment over there is so different. There isn't for example, like the clothesline project, the club that I joined on campus. There's no way such a thing exists in colleges. I mean, I hope it's something like that might exist now, but certainly like 20, 25 years ago. No, because in our Indian, Pakistani culture at that time, it was such a big taboo to talk about these issues, to talk about being a survivor of child sexual abuse. It was like there was no way. It would not have been tolerated or allowed.

VICKI: Yeah, very different.

SAMIA: I literally had to be in this American environment to be able to experience that possibility.

VICKI: Yeah, you know, you almost make me wonder with your stories that you just told, you know, what it would have been like if I had lived in more places, you know, I think, God presents us all with different changes in life and, you know, we are to learn from all of those circumstances. And with yours it was moving around among different cultures, you know, and I did want to say something about the type B, you know, I was talking before about how moving to a less stressful place made such a difference for me. I'm not proud of that. I wish I could have done it on my own, but, you know, I just didn't have what it took to make that change on my own. See how honest I'm being. But a type B, you know, one of the really admirable traits of the type B personality of the ones I've known anyway, like Sam, my husband, is that they can exist in any degree of stressful situation and not be overwhelmed by it. They just it is their nature to peaceably exist, no matter what pressures, stresses are being placed on them. And, you know, there's some envy there, you know, I would like to be more like that. On the other hand, you know, what I have achieved. Would I, you know, what I have so far written two books, would I have done so many of the things, you know, I really pushed myself to be successful in my career and I was, you know, but there were a lot of people who could have done the same, who didn't, you know, they didn't care as much. They weren't as driven. So, you know, it's a trade off, you know, there I've accomplished a lot, but was it worth it, you know, I don't know. It's my life, you know, I own it.

SAMIA: Yes. Yeah, you know, what you whatever led you to where you are, I'm so glad that it all happened because it brought you to me and we got this chance to connect and I get this chance to learn from you and have this opportunity to share your wisdom with my community of people. And I'm sure so many of them will benefit also. And I'm sure everyone's who's been listening or watching, I'm sure they've been really enjoying our conversation and I'm sure they'll be wanting to get more in touch with you and learn more with you and from you. So do you have any words to share with us about how people can best connect with you?

VICKI: Yes. Thank you, Samia. They can go to my website, which is Vicki V I C K I Paris Goodman. Paris, like the city in France. Vickiparisgoodman.com and there they will find some podcast interviews, and the books are discounted. Both of my books are discounted on that site. There's some blog articles that are pretty interesting and I'll be adding to those soon, so, you know, it's all good. Oh, and there's a contact form if anyone would like to contact me. I would love to hear from you.

SAMIA: So, yeah, that's awesome. Thank you, Vicki. And for my last reminder to our audience is please make sure you check the show notes because you'll be sure to drop Vicki's links in there so you can connect with her. I mean, and you know, you'll be getting reaching the right Vicki and just, yeah, connect with her and continue to learn with her and get the help and support you need whenever you're ready for it. And until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy… :)