Cancer doesn’t get to decide: The Mindset That Changes Everything. Cara Lockwood & Samia Bano

Can you laugh through pain?

Listen now to this raw and inspiring conversation with Cara Lockwood on facing #breastcancer, reclaiming control, and #findingstrength through humor, perspective, and self-compassion.

Cara Lockwood is the USA Today #bestsellingauthor behind "I Do (But I Don’t)," but her journey took a dramatic turn after a breast cancer diagnosis. Her book, "There’s No Good Book for This but I Wrote One Anyway: The Irreverent Guide to Crushing Breast Cancer", draws on her raw experiences and delivers what so many survivors crave: candor, empathy, and plenty of laugh-out-loud moments, even when treatment is at its toughest.

Cara shares not only the realities of recovery but also the importance of #hope, #humor, and #supportnetworks. She’s determined to give patients and loved ones practical ways to find courage and keep going, with each chapter ending on a pep talk for days when getting out of bed feels impossible. With half her proceeds going to breast cancer research and patient support, her work is built on generosity and community.

Learn more and connect with Cara now at: theresnogoodbookforthis.com

and caratheauthor.com

To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: https://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ

#BreastCancerAwareness #CancerSurvivor #HealingJourney #MindsetMatters #EmotionalHealing #SelfCompassion #InnerStrength #Resilience #PersonalGrowth #TraumaHealing #SupportSystem #GriefSupport #MentalHealthAwareness #PositiveMindset #Empowerment #WomenEmpowerment #SpiritualAwakening #HopeAndHealing #LifeLessons #AuthenticLiving #SelfLoveJourney #HealingThroughHumor #OvercomingAdversity #GrowthMindset #liveyourbestlife #healingispossible #healingisnotlinear

Here's the audio version of this episode:

Transcript Automatically Generated

SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, Privet, Mabuhay, and Dzień Dobry…
It's really, really good to be with you all again, and I know you'll be so not only happy you have joined us, but grateful that you have joined us today because we have a very special guest with us today, and that is Cara Lockwood, who is a USA Today bestselling author of There's No Good Book for This.

Welcome, Cara.

CARA: Thank you so much for having me. It's so wonderful to be on your show. I think you do such good work encouraging people to live their best lives, and I love that.

SAMIA: Thank you so much. I'm just so happy that you have joined us because, well, we're going to talk about what you're here to talk about, but it's just such an important thing for us to talk about. I want you to tell us more about who you are and what your book is all about.

CARA:

I'm twice on the USA Today bestseller list, and two of them are movies, a Lifetime movie and a Hallmark movie. I'm used to writing happily ever afters. But in 2023, I was diagnosed with breast cancer.

I went on a detour in my life by eating breast cancer. Thankfully, I'm now in remission, but I wrote a book about it called There's No Good Book For This. But I wrote one anyway, The Irreverent Guide To Crushing Breast Cancer.

I use a lot of humor in the book. I talk about the emotional journey, how you build yourself up for this fight because it is a fight. But I think few people are really ready for it.

Cancer crashes into your life unannounced, uninvited. I'm hoping this book gives people a guide to try to get around it. Each chapter ends with a pep talk because I think we need tons of pep talks in this journey.

So I'm really hoping to encourage people that even when they think they can't tackle something really big, that they can.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. There's just so many important things in what you just shared and what we will dig into.

It's cancer. I mean, as a whole, there's so many different kinds of cancer and so complex, but with all of that, I bet there's almost no one among our listeners who doesn't have someone in their life or maybe themselves who haven't had to deal with cancer, whether it's breast cancer or some other kind of cancer. And with women, breast cancer is of course such a huge issue.

And there's so many layers to it, not just with the treatment, not just with the mental health, as you have sort of hinted at, but there's also, I don't know, I hope it's getting better, but there, I know like for my aunt, when she received news of the breast cancer, one of her big concerns was just the stigma around it and what will happen, like will her breasts need to be removed or something like that. And then, you know, what happens in terms of, you know, when her physical appearance changes, how will people perceive her, this and that. And so there was this like, so many different anxieties and unknowns and tensions that it really helps to be able to talk about it with someone.

CARA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Like you're going through.

CARA: Absolutely, and you touch on such important points. First of all, breast cancer is going to rise across all women groups. It's on the rise for younger women under the age of 50.

I was diagnosed at 50. For Asian Americans, they have one of the highest rates of new breast cancer among different racial groups. And so it's just on the rise among a lot of women.

And so I think it's very important to talk about. Firstly, I just want to say that early detection is the key to survival rates, treatments, having less invasive treatments as well. So for anyone listening, if you've been putting off that mammogram, go get it.

If you're over the age of 40 or 45. So definitely get those regular mammograms. That's the key to having successful treatment and handling it.

For those who know someone who's diagnosed or who has been diagnosed, it's such a heavy burden because I think cancer affects, all kinds of cancer affects people. But breast cancer especially I think hits women in a particular way because it does affect how we feel about ourselves, how we look, how we think about ourselves as women. I think breasts are such an important part, at least for me, of how I felt about myself.

Not just how I looked but also I nursed two daughters. They were an essential part of how I saw myself as a mother, I saw myself as a woman and when the doctors told me I would need a mastectomy, I had to do a lot of feeling and talking to my counselor about how I felt about that, you know. It's a very serious thing for a lot of women and it's something that I think we don't talk about as much because the doctors are talking about saving your life, as they should.

But the full weight of making that decision to do away with an essential part of yourself, at least how you feel, I felt that way, you know, is a journey. You know, it really is. It really is a journey to sort of come to peace with that.

SAMIA: Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, the things that we as human beings can hesitate to talk to each other about even our loved ones. Um, when I'm just thinking back to my aunt, it so happens that I was the one who took her to her doctor's appointment the day that she was going to be getting the results.

I didn't know what was happening at all. And like for her, it was just another routine. As far as I knew, a routine, but she was going to just talk to the doctor.

And when she came back, like because I didn't go in the room, I was out in the waiting room. When she came back, I noticed maybe a little something on her face, like an interesting look. But she did, she was like, no, everything's fine.

Let's go home. And she actually didn't tell me anything. And I didn't know for months and months after.

CARA: It's so hard. It's so scary, I think in that moment for women. I know for me when I heard the news, I personally just went into a white room.

I'm sort of panic and denial. You know, I didn't even, you know, it was so shocking because despite the fact that I had an abnormal mammogram and went in for a biopsy, I just wasn't expecting bad news. And I think, you know, the science proves that even, even when, you know, the research and statistics tell us to expect bad news, we still don't really want to, you know, we don't want to anticipate it very much.

So I think that's why it can throw us for a loop so often. I know it's very difficult for a lot of people to sort of wrap their arms around that diagnosis. And so I really feel for you and your aunt, because I can see how she just wasn't ready to share it.

But I also see how you want to, you would want to know, you know, that there's something going on so that you can help. And I think it's really important for people to keep that in mind, that I think sometimes we don't want to burden people with bad news. You know, I know I certainly didn't when I was diagnosed.

And, you know, it felt like I was exploding a bomb in people's days, you know, just of bad news. And so sometimes I just felt really reluctant to do that. And yet, at the same time, I think it's so very important to share the news, for one, because, you know, when you're diagnosed, you're going to need that support system.

You're going to need people to know so they can help you. And two, so that you don't, you know, disturb those friendships and those relationships by potentially withholding a secret that can hurt them. You know, that they might feel betrayed or kept at arm's length.

Even when you feel like you have their best interests at heart, which you do because you love them, they might take it a different way. So I think it's important to try to share even if it's difficult, even if it's difficult news, even if you're not sure you're ready to share, you know, I think letting more people in will only help you, you know, and ultimately help them too.

SAMIA: Yeah, I take care, I take care of some of this...

CARA: I know it's so, so hard too because, you know, there's no one can, we're all human and we're all messy humans and we're just doing the best we can, you know, in very difficult trying circumstances a lot of the time. You know, we're all, nobody has a playbook for how to best do this. It's, we're all winging it, you know, as we go.

SAMIA: It's true. And just to remember that we are indeed all winging it. And just give each other some grace, because I know one of the things that can be difficult is when you share something with other people that is of course really important to share.

But at the same time, it's something difficult and challenging for you yourself. There is, you know, that risk that you take of the person you're sharing with, not reacting very well to the news. And so you have to carry that potentially extra burden of then also taking care of that person who is in the moment, like feeling shocked and not able to entirely handle what you've just shared with them.

CARA: Yeah, well, you know, it's actually why I think humor can be so important. And you might not think humor has a place here because it's so sad and so serious and so somber. But I'll share a story with you about me breaking the news to my youngest daughter at the time.

She was 15, she was a sophomore in high school, very focused on her academics and all of her clubs and her activities and cross country and she was doing a lot of things very, very busy as all high school sophomores are. When I broke the news to her, she just instantly started crying. And I just felt like I had failed her as a mother. I'm not supposed to be sick, especially not when she's 15, maybe when she's 50. But I'm supposed to let her have the drama at 15, not me have the drama. And it was such a low moment for me.

But I often lean on humor in difficult situations because it helps me get some of my power back and also distracts and divert often. So, I let her, I was trying to comfort her the best I could. But I also knew that she had a lot of nerves and anxiety about applying to college.

And even though she was just a sophomore, she was already thinking of her college essay, and she had been talking about like, what am I even going to write about? And so I cracked a joke and I said, well, I just gave you the best topic for your college essay. You're welcome.

And even she had to laugh a little, even threw her tears and say, oh, mom, what are you saying? But sometimes I think humor can help us. Not make light of a situation, I don't think, but it's okay not to let it be so heavy, that you can't lift it.

Like you can have some levity, have some humor and maybe dark moments that can just help it be a little easier to manage, a little easier to carry.

SAMIA: Yes, yes. And actually, I mean, there's obviously an appropriate time. There's that element, but also, I mean, no one approach will work with everyone.

CARA:

SAMIA: However, bring some leeway for some kind of difference among people and what they need. I find also that when we allow ourselves to use humor or find the humor in a situation, it really helps because when we think of something as a difficult situation, I mean, there is a certain reality to that perspective.

CARA:

SAMIA: It is also at the same time a perspective.

CARA:

SAMIA: And so if we can allow ourselves to shift the perspective a little bit in some ways and find some of the humor in the situation, maybe even find something to be grateful for in the situation, find some light in the situation. It begins to create something that you can hold on to.

CARA:

SAMIA: Yeah, grounding can help create hope, can help give you encouragement to keep moving forward. I mean, there's just so much that you can gain from allowing yourself that shift in perspective.

CARA:

I think that too, but I also don't think the burden should be on the patient to fight. But I do think perspective is so important. When I was very lucky to have a fantastic counselor to help me work through some of my big emotions around cancer.

But one of the first things she told me was cancer doesn't get to decide. So that helped shift my perspective from, I felt like just I was at the mercy of cancer. Like cancer was getting all these appointments and cancer was deciding my treatment and cancer was upending my life.

But she really helped me see that I still had control. I had control over how I felt. I had control over saying yes to treatment or no to treatment.

I had the control over who I told, when I told, how I told them, you know. All of these things are in your control. So the cancer isn't driving the bus.

It's not, you know, making all the decisions for you. And so that perspective is so important in trying to get your arms around it and trying to, you know, figure out how you're going to fight it. Because, you know, thinking that it's in control and it's driving is a completely different, you know, concept from thinking that you are making the decisions and that you still have your agency, which is so very important.

SAMIA: Yes, that is such an excellent insight because I think feeling out of control creates its own trauma. I mean, whatever the challenges of the actual cancer in your body are, but the feeling out of control creates its own trauma.

CARA:

Like, you know, they don't get to decide. You know, you are still in control of your own self and your feelings and, you know, who you are and what decisions you decide to make. And it's still your life to live regardless of whether, you know, these other things have intruded, you know, and brought challenges into your life.

You still have the agency. You still have a measure of control over certain things. So it's so important to remember, you know, just to have, you know, a feeling of, you know, control in your life.

SAMIA: I think it's so important. Yes. I think that's a really, really important lesson for us to learn. You know, thankfully, I've never had to deal with something like cancer in my life.

CARA:

SAMIA: There's other kinds of challenges and trauma in my life. And this issue of, you know, feeling out of control and that creating its own drama is something that I have experienced in a different context.

CARA:

SAMIA: Many of us have.

CARA:

SAMIA: And it's been such an important life lesson to learn. And I think that's one of the blessings that, you know, we can experience when we go through any kind of significant challenge in our life is learning these important life lessons. And the good thing is once you learn the life lesson, it's there to serve you for the rest of your life.

CARA:

You know, I think when it comes to, you know, processing your trauma or, you know, dealing with something large in your life like cancer. I think I know for me, when I was first diagnosed, I was like, there's no way I can handle this. Like, there's absolutely no way I can handle this.

And I was just in such a spin about it. I just felt like there's no way I can, how can I do this? Like, I was about to release a book, you know, I had two, actually three kids in high school at the time.

And I was like, there's just, I can't, like I can't do it, like I just can't. And, you know, talking to my counselor, I came to the realization that it's not that I can't, it's that I didn't want to, you know, and that there's such a difference in those two statements. It's like I did not want to, I didn't want to handle like something, you know, so awful and terrible and all the treatments and, you know, all the uncertainty.

I just didn't want it, like I just did not want it. But that little shift too, between can't and don't want to is a completely, you know, it's helped me get to a place like I can do it, I just don't want to do it.

SAMIA: Yeah.

CARA: It's a different way to think about it.

SAMIA: Yeah, and it makes sense that you didn't want to handle it in the first place. Because who would want to handle something like that?

CARA: We don't want it. Yes. But it's like, you can do it.

SAMIA: You can do it.

CARA:

Because, you know, there's so much second-guessing when it comes to something like cancer. I was kind of on time for my mammogram, but I was like three months late. So then I was like, did I, you know, have I hindered my survival rate because I was three months late?

Should I have done something differently? Should I have worn different deodorants? Should I have, you know, eaten a better diet, you know, and less processed foods?

Like, you know, all of the things that run through your mind constantly. And you know, some people, they're well-meaning, but they're also like just asking those questions. What kind of deodorant did you use?

You know, does this run in your family? Was there something, you know, I read a study that said, you know, who knows what might increase your chances of breast cancer? Like, did you do those things?

And I think, you know, only for me, I unpacked all of that. I was like, is this something I did? You know, and I had to let go of that because it's, because you ask those questions like, why me?

Why did I get cancer? What did I do to deserve this? You know, did I, you know, not go to church enough?

Was I not, you know? I mean, you ask all of these questions of yourself, like, did I do something? Was I bad?

Am I being punished? And I really had to let go of that and get to a place of, instead of why me, why not me? Like, it's not something I did, it's just something that happened.

And now I have to face it and deal with it, but it's not a punishment, it's not a result of something I did. You know, I didn't want cancer, I didn't ask for cancer, you know? I tried to live my life as a good person, you know?

I don't think it was punishment, you know? But I had to get to that stage and I think, I think we all do when dealing with something like this, you know, I think it's so important to forgive ourselves and not blame ourselves for things that are really largely out of our control.

SAMIA: Yeah.

CARA:

SAMIA: Yeah. You know, this is another aspect of our human psychology. I used to do this kind of self-blame, judge myself all the time as well.

And that now, though that I have learned to be kinder to myself and more compassionate to myself, now I'm like, oh, why did I ever do that to myself?

CARA: Like, you would never tell your, you know, your friend or aunt or mother or cousin, like, that they were to blame for cancer. Like, no, of course you wouldn't. You know, you would think, what a horrible tragedy that happened for no reason, for no good reason, you know?

So I think we should feel the same way about ourselves, but be as kind to yourself as you would to your friend. And we'll all be better off for that.

SAMIA: Yeah. You know what you said about, like, no one ever asks for cancer? I mean, that really reminds me of something because, you know, sometimes it might be that, that, you know, I may have done this or engaged in some behavior or the other contributor to some kind of increased risk for developing something like the cancer, et cetera.

But even if I did engage in any risky behavior, that doesn't mean that I was asking for cancer. I mean, it's like we're all doing the very best we can with what we know and what we have in the moment. It, you know, and so whatever choices I made in the past, I made in the past with that understanding of I was doing my best in those moments.

CARA:

SAMIA: I knew what I had and I never asked for cancer. So it's very... I mean, you cannot, you cannot, I mean, so like for me, that's such a important, important thing to remind myself of because I actually learned this, this lesson in the context of when I was getting training as a crisis counselor for survivors of sexual violence. And then, you know, there's oftentimes this blame game that happens in that context as well.

CARA:

SAMIA: One of the things that like we learned in the training, and I took it to heart was no one asks to be abused.

CARA:

SAMIA: No one asks for abuse, no one invites abuse. And so, it's no excuse for someone to abuse you. No one can say, I mean, there's so many people who say, oh, it's your fault because you did this, you did that.

CARA:

SAMIA: No one asks for abuse, no one invites abuse. And so, there's no excuse for that kind of blame game.

CARA:

SAMIA: And the same is true for something like cancer.

CARA: Even if it runs on your family, people are still very surprised to get it. I mean, as human beings, we don't anticipate bad news. We're actually, even the most pessimistic of us, are still pretty optimistic about our chances of not developing cancer.

So you're 100 percent right. Even if you smoked and maybe just did other risky behaviors, you did not bring upon cancer on yourself. It's cancer's fault, not your fault. So keeping that in mind is really important.

SAMIA: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that, I want to make a t-shirt out of it. It's cancer's fault, not my fault.

CARA: Like for example, my surgeon told me that people who feel like the surgery will go well, they typically recover well with fewer complications and there's a lot of research about that. So if you were just really obsessed with blaming yourself and the negativity and then maybe even thinking like you deserve it and this isn't going to work out well for you, then it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy in which that does happen. So it's so important to get a hold of those negative thoughts, to show yourself some grace and love in this period so that you can believe you will get well, that you deserve to get well and then you'll be surprised about how well the treatments will actually work for you once you I think root out that negativity and that negative self-talk that might be holding you back in more ways than you know. So it's so important.

SAMIA: I you know, it's I was actually doing an interview for this show with another guest who is a health and wellness expert. I've actually done multiple interviews with health and wellness experts. And one of the lessons that I've been learning from from them is at the like, if you look at just the level of your physiology and how disease develops, or what allows it to thrive in your body, like when you look at root causes, one of the root causes for most disease is stress. You know, and so there's so many different ways in which your body can get stressed. One of those ways is your mental, emotional state.

CARA:

SAMIA: And again, this is not to blame but to empower because once you realize and recognize, oh, the way I think and the feelings that I allow, to myself to sit with and sit in, these are things that are having an impact on my body, on my health, on the well-being of myself. And these are things that I can learn to control and change in a more positive direction. It's just so, like I found it so empowering as a life lesson, you know?

I mean, you could again, go down that rabbit hole of blaming, shaming yourself. I mean, like, oh, no, oh, I did this, I did that. But no, no, no, again, it's not about blaming, shaming, judging, but it's about empowering yourself with the knowledge of how to help yourself both in this moment, but also for the rest of your life.

CARA:

Yeah. So I think it's really important for people to give themselves permission to for that important self care, for treating yourself well, for dealing with stress because I think sometimes we just dismiss it like, I'm stressed but I've got too much to do. I'm too busy to deal with the stress or I'm too busy to deal with that negative self talk later.

It's not really causing any damage right now and I've got too much to do. I've got the kids to worry about and my job to worry about and so I think it's actually a good excuse just to slow down, do that important self care, whether that's meditation or seeking counseling, making time for yourself to really deal with some of these stressors in your life. It's really interesting about cancer because sometimes cancer can just wipe the slate clean of the things that you've been sort of obsessed with or worried about, and it pushes them down the priority list.

If you've been worried about what your co-worker thinks about you, or the neighbor's new car, or some of the things that we can sort of run circles in our minds about, or maybe something posted on social media is bothering you, those things can kind of get pushed down on the priority list because you're dealing with cancer now. So in some ways, it can help you get clear about the important things to deal with, like the stress and the things that have been bothering you that maybe in the end scheme of things aren't that earth shattering. So it helps you get your priority, which can be one of the very few upsides.

SAMIA: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Might be one of the few upsides, but yeah, few upsides, few upsides. You actually just made me think of one of my other aunts, who thankfully didn't have cancer, but she had another diagnosis, very serious in its own way.

And I remember that she was one of these people who, I mean, she was just a very traditional lady. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that in the way of, she really cared about upholding all the different traditions and reaching the expectations that, you know, society had.

CARA: Of course, of course.

SAMIA: As a woman, as a mother, as a wife, and so on and so forth, you know. And so she had a very full life. She had a very busy life.

There was always something to do. She, I mean, of course, wasn't getting enough rest and this is fun.

CARA: Of course. It always comes last, sure.

SAMIA: Yes. And the thing was that, and she was by no means only lady in my family, or in our society who put themselves at the bottom of their own list. And it's like, you know, when you, like, let's say, if I went and said to her, this was in the past, thankfully things have taken a positive turn.

But in the past, if I would go and say to her, ah, you're so tired, please just sit, relax, no, no, no. Then all of this work, when will it get done? Who will do it?

I have to do the dishes now, sure.

You know, and there's this sense of responsibility and urgency to everything or so much. But when she got her diagnosis and it was something that like literally, like she started to lose her energy, like physically, you know, like her body got more weak and she just didn't have the energy to be as active as she was used to being. And, you know, so literally her body in some ways forced her to slow down, forced her to even stop doing so much of what she was used to doing.

And I think it took her a while of just literally not being physically able to do this, that, and everything. And then seeing that when she couldn't do it, the most important things still got done.

CARA: Yeah.

SAMIA: And there were things that didn't get done, but life still went on.

CARA: And it was fine.

SAMIA: We were all fine. And I think, you know, that it really took that, really going through that really difficult time in her life for her to be able to shift that perspective and have a, I think in some ways more realistic perspective on what was really, really important in life for her. And so now thankfully she's doing much better, not just in terms of her condition, whatever the diagnosis was, but in terms of just her being a happier person, a less busy person.

CARA: Yes. Yeah. It's such a good point you raised because, you know, so many of us, I think, feel like there's so many societal expectations, but I think we don't necessarily know how very serious they are.

Do you know, like, your aunt is a perfect example of someone who just really worked, like, probably her hands to the bone trying to make everything just perfect. And then when she had to take a step back, it was fine.

SAMIA: Even little things, like, you know, if you open a cupboard, it has to be just this way, like, everything has to be neat and tidy. And, and, you know, I mean, little things, like the way the towel is folded, because if it's not folded in just the right way, the towel won't fit and look messy. And I'm like, and then, you know, you start worrying about these things.

So, like, if someone comes in to help you, I'll fold the towels for you, but she's then like, Oh, no, you don't know how to do it right.

CARA: Sure, sure, yes. And you know, it's so funny, in the book I talk about this, about like sort of letting go of the things that, you know, we've sort of been obsessed with, sheet folding, towel folding, doing the dishes a certain way, cooking a certain way, cooking certain things a certain way. Because once you let other people help, it's not going to be perfect.

It's not gonna be the way you did it, but it's actually gonna be okay. And it's important for you not to worry about those small things, because you have to put all of your energy into fighting cancer. You don't have time to worry about the towels in the cupboard.

You really have to focus on the cancer and beating the cancer, and that's your job right now. And so other people can pitch in, and later when you're well, you can come back and refold all the towels if you want. Or you can realize it's not a big deal.

And the worry, a lot of these worries that we have, it's about what other people will think of us. And that's been so internal for us since we were kids about how other people are gonna see our home if it's not cleaned in a certain way, or the dinner if it's not prepared in a certain way. But then when these things are done differently, then we see actually the sky didn't fall.

No one wrote a bad review on Yelp about our home. Everything was fine. Nobody shunned our friendship or our family.

We're all fine because those things that we were very concerned about actually maybe other people weren't as concerned.

SAMIA: You know, but there's the other side because I was actually having this conversation with one of my people. This was like maybe two, three weeks ago where actually, so with this person that I was speaking to, I was talking to her through her mindset around like her and her family. Her sister had been engaged and the engagement fell through. It created a bit of drama and gossip in the community. Sometimes people do care and they will say things. But the interesting thing that we, like, you know, I'm all about, let's find the light, you know, like what's something you can learn from this.

That's what you can be grateful for in this situation. And one of the things that we found to be really grateful for in this situation is that after experiencing all of this bad drama, like when her sister's engagement fell through and all the gossip and so she now, this person now is like, I will never gossip about anyone like this again.

CARA: Yeah.

SAMIA: It's been so traumatic for me, for my sister, for our family.

CARA: Sure.

SAMIA: That's a great blessing for you to recognize that this is something that, this big kind of behavior is something that you engaged in yourself with regards to other people. And now you have become conscious of how much it can actually hurt and that you won't do it again to someone else. That is an amazing thing to be grateful for.

CARA: What a gift. Yeah.

SAMIA: You know, and so it's like sometimes, yeah, people can be judgy, but you know what? Let those people go if, like, let them be judgy.

CARA: Yes.

SAMIA: You know, you can learn a lesson of hate. You can learn a different lesson from that. You don't have to take their judgment and do everything that you want you to do.

CARA: Exactly. Yeah. You can decide to, yeah, learn a life lesson that can help others. And then, you know, there's a ripple effect from that so that you can, you know, do, you know, shine a light and be a bright light instead of a taker of light. So, you know, I mean, I think that's great. I think it's also important to know as well that, you know, even the gossippers have sort of short attention spans as well.

So, you know, there is something, I think, called the spotlight effect where we all always think we're the ones in the spotlight and people are always talking about us in particular. But really, most people are concerned about themselves. So, most people spend a lot of time thinking about themselves and only very little time thinking about, like, what's going on, you know, with my neighbor or cousin or aunt or sister or, you know, I mean, we're just human that way.

So, we're interested in us.

SAMIA: It's true that, you know, I think you have hit on another really important, I mean, you have been giving us tons of insights by the load full, but here's another really critical insight that you, I think, have hit upon that we mostly just, like, care about ourselves. Even when we're gossiping about or thinking about someone else, it's really us that we are really, I mean, I don't really, really care what's going on with that person or family, but, you know, it's like what goes on with them and what I think about them, it's actually a reflection of what I am worrying about for myself, what I'm, how I feel about myself. So the, what I'm, what I'm talking about other people, it's more of a surface level thing. It really is a deeper reflection of my concern for me.

CARA: Exactly, exactly. And this is something I had to remind myself of, you know, during chemotherapy when I lost my hair. And I, you know, I had a wig, but I felt like it was really fake and everyone noticed, you know, like everyone at the grocery store was thinking about my wig.

Or if I went with that and went up with a scarf, like then I was like, well, everybody knows I'm sick. You know, everyone's thinking about me being sick. And really, I had to think about it, like if I saw someone out, I might think about that for half a second.

And then I'm like, oh, where's my grocery list? Or did I forget bread? You know, or whatever, or I'm late to get, you know, pick up the kids.

You know, it was always about like me and less about Weber. So I wasn't in the spotlight like I thought I was because, you know, just people were not worried about it. So I think it's a good thing, you know, to keep in mind about anything.

Like people aren't like innately focused on you all the time. They're really, you know, thinking about themselves for the best majority, or what they have to do for, you know, the next thing they need to do, you know, because that's what we all think about.

SAMIA: Yeah, and sometimes I do think that, you know, we could do a better job of thinking a little bit more about other people. I mean, from a place of compassion and empathy because I know, you know, now, this is a different context again, but one of my cousins, cousin sisters, she lost her spouse, she became widowed. This was a few years back.

And one of the experiences that she had in the aftermath of losing her spouse was that for a short period of time, she had a lot of people paying attention to her, checking in with her about, you know, how she was feeling, what was going on. But pretty soon that sort of went away and she was, she felt alone and left by herself. And there was, you know, she just in some ways felt abandoned by the community.

I mean, like she had a lot of needs, a lot of help that she needed because she was a single mom now and so forth. And initially there was so much outpouring of like people checking in and this and that, but even though her needs didn't go away, she continued to need help and support. A lot of the people's attention went away, because people just got busy with their own lives.

And so sometimes we can do a little bit better of keeping people in our care.

CARA: Absolutely. And really that's the most important thing to do because I talk about it as like the pity and pivot, which is we give a lot of pity up front and then we just pivot back. Pivot back to our lives.

Pivot away from hard things because we want to offer support and caring for someone who's grieving or someone who's going to cancer. But it's also like it's uncomfortable for us because you sort of have to deal with death, illness, those things are not something that most of us are comfortable sitting with for any amount of time. But so many people reach out to me and they're like, my friend has cancer, my mother has cancer, my sister has cancer, what can I do?

I feel helpless. And I tell them reaching out is just the most important thing you can do. And just asking, how are you?

Is there something you need help with that I can do? Can I pick up the kids? Can I cook dinner tonight for you?

And just really the, how are you? And over a long period of time, because just like you're going through that grief, it doesn't last just a week or two weeks. It lasts for sometimes years.

And that's the same for cancer treatment. My treatment was almost a year and a half of really feeling tired and not myself and I needed a support system for that time. And grief also takes a long time to deal with.

So I would say for people not sure of what to do, set up a timer, weekly, hey chicken, just say, how are you to me? For the people that reached out to me over the weeks and months, and often it was just, how are you to me? Like, you know, I'm thinking of you, how are you to me?

And that real place of curiosity and not like a judgment, like, I hope you're going to the doctor, I hope you're getting the treat, or I told you to get this treatment, you know, it's really more of, how are you to me? And then, you know, is there anything you can do now? You know, or even offer things because sometimes, sometimes it feels like a burden to figure out what you need, you know, so you can, you can even think of, you know, like, hey, can I, I'm going to the grocery store, do you need anything?

You know, happy to pick something up for you. You know, so just set a calendar, set a sort of reminder in your phone because we do get busy. It's not our fault that we don't remember.

So just set that little regular reminder. I'm going to check in to see how they're doing. We're like, when you go to the grocery store, we're going to see if they need anything or I'll be in their neighborhood.

Maybe they want me to drop something off or go to the pharmacy for them. I can do that. So, you know, I think that's the best thing we can do to help us be empathetic, you know, because we get busy in our own lives and things that we have to do.

So, you know, setting that little reminder can help a lot with, you know, helping be a good support system for the people in our lives that need it.

SAMIA: Yeah. And it's like we may not be able to do this more enhanced level of caring for everyone.

CARA: Sure.

SAMIA: Than in our life, but maybe just one or two people.

CARA: Yeah, of course.

SAMIA: Do a little bit more for them. And so, just improve your own capacity to be more caring and compassionate, towards other people. You just made me think about, there was this scene in this Indian drama I was watching just yesterday.

I will get into the backstory. As this like character, and he's a very wise man, and he was trying to teach this lady some good life lessons. And so, he actually, and there's a little bit of like magic involved in the situation.

So, he, she's like, he has, he, she finds this spot of gold, like literally a pot of gold in this. Oh, that sounds great. Right?

CARA: Yeah.

SAMIA: And she's so excited, and she knows that it's because of this, this wise old person that she found this spot of gold. So initially, she goes to him. She's like, thank you, thank you so much for helping me find this spot of gold, and I'm so grateful to you.

And so he says to her, you know, what I, I'll just give you one piece of advice. Since you're so grateful that you found this spot of gold, having followed my advice thus far. And he says, I want you to take just a little portion of this, this gold and use it to help someone else.

And she has this like really strong reaction. She's like, no, this is all mine. I'm not going to give this to anyone else.

CARA: That's so funny, that's so funny. You know what's interesting too? You know, we, I think everyone understands that, like that selfish, you know, impulse to like keep it all.

But, you know, psychology research says that there's something called a helper's high, which means when you help, you feel good, you know, when you help someone, you feel good. So actually helping others benefits you too. So I would tell that to people who maybe don't want to reach out to anybody that you're robbing them of the helper's high because, you know, they want to help and they feel good.

I mean, think about like when we do something good and we feel good, like, oh, I cooked dinner for her and she was sick and I feel so good about myself, you know.

SAMIA: Exactly, exactly, and so when we like allow ourselves to become a little bit less self-absorbed, and a little bit more compassionate and helpful, we actually help ourselves.

CARA: Right, exactly, because being selfish doesn't feel so good, actually. I bet the next day she didn't feel so good about keeping all the gold.

SAMIA: Well, this was a bit of a long story, but in the end, this was part of the lesson that he was trying to teach her and how to learn is, you know, when you actually give, you receive also and you actually end up receiving more.

CARA: Yes, it's so true. It's so true.

SAMIA: Oh, Cara, I've been having so much fun with you and from you and I'm looking at the time, I'm like, no! I thought for today, what are the last thoughts you would like to share?

CARA: Yeah, I would just tell people to show themselves a lot of grace and to show others a lot of grace too, because, you know, when I was diagnosed, I was walking around in the world too, you know, picking up my kids and going through the drive-through and in the grocery store and, you know, not all of us are on our best behavior all the time. And so I think you never know what someone is going through when they're out in the world and people who are kind, you know, in difficult moments. You know, I remember I was crying in the car and driving through Starbucks and the person in front of me bought my coffee and I think they saw in the rear-view mirror that I was upset and it was just that little, you know, that little like, Oh, someone saw me, you know, someone else.

You know, they didn't know that I was dealing with breast cancer, but to me, I felt like seeing. And so you never know when that little bit of kindness towards someone will make a big difference. So that's what I'll leave people with today.

SAMIA: Thank you that it's such a wonderful reminder for us. And my last reminder is for our listeners. And it's just to make sure to check the show notes because we will be dropping Cara's links in there. You can check out her book and she's written many more books.

CARA: Yes, it was.

SAMIA: Yeah, and until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy.

CARA: Oh, you too. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you.