SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really really good to be with you again... And you know what, we have a great guest today. It's Debbie Brian, who is a speaker, author, podcaster, and business motivation coach. I’m so happy you are with us, Debbie. Welcome...

DEBBIE: Hi... 

SAMIA: Oh, yes, please jump right in and tell us more about who you are and what you do...

DEBBIE: Hi. So I am... my name is Debbie Brian, and I am a business motivation coach. I've been paying my own wages for probably around about 23 years, sometimes in a startup business. But in the last five years I've been a coach helping and encouraging and sometimes pushing a little bit for people to achieve their dreams and their goals. And I just had a fantastic weekend. I won Business Coach of the Year 2022 on Friday. So I have an award, which is not in here, I haven't got it to show you. So that was a nice win. And I primarily help business owners who are a little bit stuck, a little bit jaded, a little bit lost their way and don't really know how to do it, you know… we all start a business to follow our dream… to do something that you can't not do. And then you know, a year or two years down the line, suddenly you can't remember why you're doing what you're doing… and you can't wait until Friday. And you're you know you're wishing for the weekend. And so I see that in a lot of business owners that just get a little bit lost in the day-to-day. And we try and bring that magic back in and that passion back into the business to make it enjoyable and get results. And you know, just give you back that adventure that you wanted in the first place. So that's my first thing... And then as a small, little side challenge, I have just cycled around India for 360 kilometers. So taking my own ethos of things that I can and can't do, I challenged myself quite a lot to do the bike rides. So yeah, I've had a bit of a interesting couple of months with the award and the bike ride... 

SAMIA: That is so amazing. That is so amazing... and tells me something about the spirit of you. Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. And you know, I just love when I was reading your profile, one of the very first things that jumped right out at me, is how you put right up front how you help put joy and passion back into other people… like the people that you coach...

DEBBIE: ...into their businesses...

SAMIA: ..yeah, into their businesses. And of course, we are at this show, so interested in that we are so, so interested in that. So tell me... so you mentioned that one of the… the biggest problems that you see, is the people losing that passion and joy because it just gets so stuck in the day-to-day… Can you share some insights on like why that happens? And then we can dig more deeply into what to do about that.

AD HERE

DEBBIE: Yeah, so I think it happens when... So in the beginning we all have a vision, you know… we've all got this thing that is just you know, because at the end of the day, you when you're self-employed and you're an entrepreneur, you're a little bit of a nutcase because you could just go and have a nice safe job and come home at five o'clock every night and somebody else pays your money. But instead, we decided that we're going to do this thing, this thing that is just like keeps us awake at night and you just start with that passion. And then reality comes in... reality is that, you know, you're hustling every day, you're pedaling… you know my biggest thing for entrepreneurs you're like a swan, you're beautiful on the outside and pedaling really madly underneath...

SAMIA: Ahh...

DEBBIE: And I think you know, most entrepreneurs are like that. But sometimes you get into the business, you may have had a bad month, you may have had a poor experience with the COVID, you may have had other things that changed in your life… and all of a sudden you've just lost, you know… things maybe not going as well as they could have done or you've made a bad decision. We've lost a member of staff or the markets changed… there's 100 reasons that sometimes it goes wrong. And most of the time as entrepreneurs and as business owners, you just roll with it, adapt and change... But sometimes it's just not possible. It could be, you know, it's a bit like a gym membership. You know, I challenged myself to that bike ride because I wanted to be out of my comfort zone… because that's my nature… is to do something... I'm very extreme in my reaction. So if I'm doing something, I'm doing it big... And sometimes you do that. And sometimes you fail, you know… I didn’t on that particular one. But every day I thought I was going to fail. So for some people, when you fail, you get up and go… Okay, that was probably a wrong move. What do I do now? And for some people, they don't get back up, or they don't know how to get back up. And then they don't know what the… what do I do now... They become paralyzed by this sense of what if I fail again? What if it's wrong again? Or, you know, not always wrong, but just what if it doesn't work out? And then you know, you wake up… there's not a business owner in the world that can't relate to waking up at three o'clock in the morning running through every scenario and going… Oh my God, my business is keeping me awake at night… whether you're excited or not excited. So that's the people that I want to help... I've been there many times myself. I've, you know… we've had ups and downs in businesses… 12 years ago, if you'd talked to me now, I would have been the busiest person in the world. I had a hairdressing salon that I passionately, passionately loved... And 12 years ago, 31st of January, just come in, with the day that I broke down in my car, smashed my leg up and could no longer be a hairdresser. So I had that experience… not immediately, but through the recovery… my experience was you can't do this job... And it was a job that I loved. I worked in… I was in a gym and had my own hair salon. And I couldn't do it. Because the prediction was to continue doing that would put me in a wheelchair. So when you're sitting there with what do I do, and I'm already doing my favorite thing in the world, and happen to kind of reinvent that… I suppose I've had that experience a few times. And I never want anyone to feel alone. I was very lucky, I've always had a lot of support. And I don't want people to feel alone in that situation. But there's also quite a lot of people out in the business industry that say they're going to help you and they don't help you. And I never want to be that person either. So that's too long answer...

SAMIA: No, not at all. And thank you so much for sharing that part of your journey. Also, I think it helps to put in context for our listeners where you're coming from. And not to mention that there's just so much, you know… like you highlighted so many beautiful, amazing points over there. And so, you know, I'd love to dig in deeper with you now about this whole idea of... well, so if you're feeling stuck in that place, how do you begin to tap back into that joy and passion...

DEBBIE: So it is very much about going back to your why, you know… it's very much a saying why… what is it that you wanted to do... Looking at your values… I believe like, if you're… like, my core values would be… I just did one… there's an exercise that I do with people to actually find out what your core values are. And most people will think their core values might be money, it might be success, or you know… success looks differently to everybody. My core values come out as joy, adventure, and mobility as being the things that are most important to me... I've lost my ability once… mobility, sorry, by breaking my leg. And I've lost sometimes… lost the joy of my business. And so to know that those three things are really intrinsic into what I'm doing helps me to be able to plan what I'm going to do moving forward. Because if you're naturally in love with what you're doing, then you're gonna do it much better. And you're going to do happier, you're going to want to get on with your day. So what we do first of all, is we look at the core values... And then we really look at what's the vision. So right at the moment we are goal setting for 2023… I'm sure everybody is… but for my clients and for my team, we’re saying, okay, well, just you know, 2022 has been very, very kind to me. And 2023 I've got some much bigger goals, even ambitious goals. And so we identify what those goals are. And then we start looking at, okay, what's the markers that would make me understand that I've achieved my goals? And then we take it right back as going…. Okay, so what do we need to do in week one, day one, month one… we take away the chaos of just chucking ourselves at something and make it very much more targeted. So we first of all make sure that the target is now still the target… that is still what you want to do. Because sometimes we discover that somebody has been doing something and actually the reason they're feeling so stuck is because that's not what they intended. That's not what they set out to do. You know, in that... there's a saying, where you start it's not where you finish... Sometimes, sometimes as business owners, we get given so many fantastic opportunities that we ended up going over here sideways. Or you know, our vision is there, we want to be there. But then this comes up, that's going to be amazing, let's do that... And maybe somehow it is going to lead to over there. So we'll go sideways instead… and sometimes we go sideways, that over there you can't even see it anymore. So it's about pulling that back and saying… Okay, what is the vision? What is it that you want to achieve? What will make you so happy that it puts the joy and the passion back in your business? Establish that… establish what actual evidence would confirm that. So in a year's time, for example, I want to put on events next year… I want to do my own events, rather than go into people's events. So for me, it will be… I'll be looking at next year to say, Okay, so I've managed to put on X amount of events. So then we go backwards from there to say… okay, so what does my event look like? What do I imagine it to look like? What people do I want there? What subjects do I want to cover? Do I want to be motivational? Or do we want everyone standing up dancing? Or do we want to do an exercise? So actually kind of like really thinking it through. And then we work that back to the first three months of the year, and go… Okay, so what needs to happen in month one, what needs to happen in month two, and what needs to happen in month three… So that at the end of it, we get it... And it sometimes takes all the... if we take the instinct out of it, and just say... it's no different to if I want us to drive to Scotland, you know… I'm going to put that into the satellite… and the satellite will say, you have to go down this road, and then this road, and then this road, and then over this bridge… And it's a step by step instruction... And then I know I'm gonna get to Scotland because I followed all of the steps. And so doing that in business just simplifies it...

SAMIA: Yeah. So, you know, I love that you started by saying that, you know, first of all, you have to get clear about your values... And I'm just curious if when you talk to people, the business owners that you're helping, particularly when you talk to them about what their values are, do you find that most of them, if not all of them, express that experiencing joy is a value that they have?

DEBBIE: No, not necessarily. They would probably say money is a value… they'd say… if they're in a stress situation… so depends, okay... If they're in a great situation, and the business is booming, then yes, they're going to say, you know what, I'm absolutely loving it. Everything's going fantastic. I am loving my life right now… that's joy. And you know, if I say to them, okay, so do you want to continue to keep loving your life, then let's have a look at that plan. And just make sure that you're on track, and you're going to hit where you want to be to have that stability... So that's the answer to that person. The person who's on the other side of the fence, who is not loving their life, who is actually hating their life, isn't instinctively going to say joy. And so what we will talk about is, what matters to you... What does… what would the best-case scenario look like to you? How would that… give me a picture? Is it holidays? Is it just being able to have one day off without having to answer the phone... And I have a client, he's like, I need a manager because I can't ever have any time off because that is… his business is care. So it's 24/7... But there is no one to have responsibility, no one to give him a break so that he can have that relief and that sense of joy of being able to say… I've got a great business… but the business is running him, as opposed to him running the business as such... So when you’ve established with them what matters… you know, they're in an emergency situation. And they're either in fight, flight or freeze at that stage. So joy is a dream... It's just, you know, I'm not going to go and peddle a dream to somebody. All I'm saying to him is, we're going to take you out of this stressful situation, we're going to take you out of that fight or flight or freeze situation. And then when you're out of that fight or flight or freeze, you're going to get the joy back into your life... Or you're going to get the happiness back into your life. Or sometimes you're going to get the contentment. Or maybe you just get to… I don't know… go out for one meal and not get interrupted… and maybe that's enough right now. So every scenario is different. And I think people, you know… like, for yours make change fun and easy… Some people don't like to make the change... I find sometimes… I don't know if you've had this experience… is that sometimes we live in chaos. I lived in chaos, you know, until quite recently… I had this chaos and chaos was my comfort blanket. I understood chaos. I understood that I’m meant to be stressed. I'm a business owner. I am meant to be stressed. And I'm meant to be hustling. And I'm meant to be go in every day. And I'm never meant to have a break. And I'm never meant to stop until I get to x... That's my life. I'm going to get to x. But you know, I'm an entrepreneur, you're an entrepreneur… what do you think happens when we get to x? We don't stay at x, we go, well, let's just go to y, because y is just there now, we're halfway, let's go to y. And then let's go to Z. And then let's just go to A and start all over again... So that chaos that you have, and the chaos that is your comfort blanket to go, I understand this… your body can't cope with that forever. You know, every business owner in the world will tell you that that chaos killed him in the end… it killed off the passion and the joy in the business. So to be able to come away from that, to be able to say… you know what, you don't have to put your body into that state of anxiety, that state of stress, to actually get results… is a big leap of faith. A massive leap of faith...

SAMIA: Oh, my gosh, yes... You know, when you were talking about being used to the chaos, it made me think about… you know being in that energy where I very much value being in control... And in some ways, when you're in the chaos, you can really, you know, sort of put yourself in that energy of… I have to do this, and I have to do that… in order to manage the chaos and handle the chaos… And in the doing of all of that, you know, you feel a sense of… okay, I have some control, or I'm creating some sense of order and control in my life. And I know, for me, that used to be really, really important. You know, I'm a survivor of trauma, and I had huge power and control issues that I dealt with. And one of the ways that came out was in this context of wanting to, you know, feel like I was doing something that was helping to create more calm and order in the chaos... And so when there wasn't chaos, when there wasn't something to do, you know it was like… feeling a little lost... Yes. Like, what, you know… if… yes… and so… oh man, yeah, I can... I can relate to that.

DEBBIE: So what happened to me is I got to a stage where I'd been, I'd had a car accident. And I've just been talking to a colleague today actually… had a car accident… I had a hairdressing salon. I was very hands-on in a hairdressing salon. I'm in a gym. So I'm loving the gym lifestyle, you know. And I had this car accident that's quite major. I smashed my leg, I ended up with two plates and 22 screws on my leg... So I didn't now don't fit in into my home, into my friendship circles, into the gym… I had a year of recovery, of being on crutches and having braces on, having a mobility scooter… a long, long year… And then… and then never really fully recovered. It's probably now… it's probably the best it's been… that's taken 12 years. And so what I think happened is that business Debbie could still perform… business Debbie could get… could be rewarded. I could do stuff… and people… oh my god, you're doing amazing. And then the real me kind of disappeared. Because she couldn’t do the things that she wanted to do. So I just zipped her up and put her in the cupboard and stayed with this other person. But then what became competitive with myself… not really anybody else to be honest, competitive with myself… I need to do better, do bigger, do faster… achieve the goals, you know that maybe the goals I might have used in body pump and going… Oh, I'm gonna have a higher weight. Suddenly, I'm doing that. And I take my little hair salon, I sell, and I take on a 7000 square foot spa. That was a big mistake... It was a mistake. It used up a lot of money and so, you know, that control thing… I understand that control. And if I'm honest, I got to a stage where I was told… you need to just stop… you need to stop and do nothing. And that is more terrifying than being on crutches for a year.

SAMIA: Yeah... 

DEBBIE: I just didn't know how to do nothing... I can remember asking my coach at the time… What does nothing mean... Like is there a list of things that can contribute nothing …because it was terrifying… I was literally terrified… like if I don't control everything... If I just let the world happen...

SAMIA: Yeah…

DEBBIE: ...then what’s gonna happen? And guess what, you get joy. You’re actually as productive, you have more clarity. You don't run around like a headless chicken and trying to do everything. You just do what needs to be done... And I did that for about six weeks. And then one afternoon, the world just went badly wrong, you know, like to hell in a handcart. And I was just like, shoulders back up and hunch. But this time when the chaos came back I physically felt ill. I physically felt sick. And I recognized that that was how I've worked for 10 years... So for 10 years, I had done that. And I wanted to come back to the nothing… because really here I had this little happy bubble that we're saying… How can this be? I'm working less hard than I was before, I'm getting the same amount of stuff done. And actually, I'm not even stressed, you know, I'm not even stressed. Trust me, I, in the past, I've had businesses where I've had 26 on the team… my hair fell out, you know… my hair would fall out, wouldn't grow, because I was so stressed. But you know, it's all worth it in the end. But it turns out, it doesn't... There's another option… it doesn't have to all be worth it. In the end, the journey matters… that the journey is the joy… the journey is the bit that we neglect as business owners...

SAMIA: Yes. You know what I also find is that when you enjoy the journey, when there is that joy, you actually... are not only still achieving great results, but in many ways I'm able to achieve even better results then when I am stressed and trying to control everything. It was actually you know, so many times I realized, oh my gosh, I'm creating a bottleneck by trying to control this or that aspect of how things work. And it was just slowing everyone down and everything down. And so by being willing to let go of my need to be so much in control, and trusting the people that I was working with to do what they were there to do, well, you actually, you know...

DEBBIE: …it releases the bottleneck...

SAMIA: Yes! Releases the bottleneck...

DEBBIE: …you work in flow... You work from… the thing is, if you're gonna go for… I'm not a runner, I always wanted to be a runner, I'm never going to be a runner, not now... But if you were to run and you were having a great run, you know, the sun's out, it's shiny, what a beautiful place that you're going for your run and you're happy, and it's an easy run... Yeah… sometimes you get out of bed in the morning and it's cold… like today it's raining, it's miserable… You don't even have time for this, this run that you… you go… right, I have to go. I've got to fit that in there. And then I've got to do this, and I've got to do that… And your mind is not even in the game. You're begrudging that time. But you're like… that’s on my list, I’ve to do it… The two could be exactly the same distance, right... But one's going to be exhilarating and enjoyable and will spark ideas. And one will be stressful and mean and boring. You might burn the same amount of calories, but what you'll get the physical and the mental benefits from either one… And that's just like running a business. You know, if you can run your business and say, great… And this week, I'm in London tomorrow till Thursday. I'm probably not gonna get hardly anything done this week in terms of what I wanted to do. I'm not going to get stressed about it, because that's just how it is... I will… I've now had a cancellation. So this afternoon, I had some stuff to do. And my friend just happened to be passing through my town on a train. And so I was like, let's just go meet for a coffee. And I've had a fantastic afternoon. And tomorrow morning I had some filming to do. And miraculously, the filming has now been canceled tomorrow becasue somebody is ill. So this afternoon, I could have said no to having a lunch with my friend because I had work to do. And then I still got a free morning tomorrow. So sometimes I think you have to just go… okay, and we'll probably do some work together based on this afternoon… there'll be something that comes out of it for the events next year… because that's another thing is that taking that time to kind of express where you are, what you're looking for, what you're wanting to do… your plans… you know, putting your plans out loud in your head, they make them more real, they make them more visual, you know… If anyone is into the law of attraction, obviously if you say what you want… but then if you bounce those ideas off other people, that's another way that helps… and that's, that's something that helps in a coaching or in a group coaching… and I find if I've been to somewhere with a group of us, either in a coaching scenario or networking scenario, that you can't wait… you've got, you know, you've got a bag full of ideas, literally like a bag of balls, you've got a bag full of ideas, and you went in, they might not have had any creativity or any spirit… or just… oh my god, I don't even want to go to this networking meeting, I don't have time, I've got to get to the gym, I’ve got shopping, I've got Christmas... That million list, you know, you can write… I could write it down my arm… But the reality is, is I could do my shopping online, I could do that while I'm watching TV tonight. If I do my shopping online I can get it delivered. I can get up an hour earlier tomorrow morning, and just do, you know… you could just find the time to do it. But when you don't have that passion, everything is a problem... When you don't have joy, everything is a problem… you very much… Everything becomes difficult… so… because you perceive it to become difficult, you make it more difficult...

SAMIA: Yes, yes... And I think the people that you're working with, like as a business owner, whether it's other members of your team or the clients that you're serving… they... I mean, I think you pass on that energy to them... and you know...

DEBBIE: ..so many of us do work alone now. And we do work in isolation, you know, we did, we started it in the lockdown… and there's still a huge amount of people who haven't gone back to the offices… or, you know, people have given up their offices or their premises. And so it can… being in a business is a lonely world… if you don't have connections, if you don't have a network, then things that aren't overwhelming can be overwhelming... I myself, obviously, I'm in business. None of my family, like my close family that live here, and none of my friends who I would socialize with here, are in business. So they don't understand me. They don't understand why I would... I don't know… go to an award ceremony on a Friday night… they don't understand why… I just finished my Master Practitioner for NLP… and why I do that every weekend when I already have a job... And I just kind of did it for fun… although it was life-changing… they're just... And then you walk into a room that has got business owners, and it's like they speak your language…

SAMIA: Yes…

DEBBIE: You know what I mean? They actually understand me… I don't have to explain it. And it's… that in itself is so powerful to get somebody who speaks... Don’t get me wrong… I sometimes like that my friends don't understand what I do because that's an off for me. One of the big learning curves… so the bike ride that I refered to earlier on... So I recently went to India and spent five days cycling around India, which is madness, because I'm not a cyclist. But I wanted to celebrate the fact that I'm not in a wheelchair. They said I would be in a wheelchair at 55 and I wanted to celebrate it... And a little bit I suppose is… that Debbie that I put in a cupboard years ago, I wanted to see if I could get her back out again. And I did... I did actually… I spent a lot of time training for the bike ride. I spent a huge amount of time worrying… Oh my goodness, did I worry… Like, in the mornings, I'd almost be catatonic with fear where I just couldn't talk to anybody because I was so frightened that I wasn't going to achieve my goal. I put the pressure on myself. No one else put that pressure… just me. But the surprising thing I suppose, the big thing that I learned at the bike ride is one, we did four rides a day…  I would just think about that one ride and get to the end of that ride, and then do the other… So chunking down something that was massive to me into bite-sized pieces. You know, you've heard the saying… how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. So that was my elephant... But the other was that it... they weren't business owners… there's only 10 people on the crew. And they weren’t business owners. So nobody talked about business for 10 days. I don't know if it has ever happened to me... Like ever… Has it ever happened to you? I can't remember the last time when no one spoke about business for 10 days... It was quite… what's the word… I can't say cathartic, cathartic… I can’t say it... It was a break from my brain. My brain just said the job at hand is to pedal and to finish the day. And then to finish the week without injuring myself. I still have a lot of damage on the knees. And so I was super, super focused. 

SAMIA: Yes. 

DEBBIE: But I came back from that, oh my goodness, on a high. I couldn’t have done it on my own.

SAMIA: Yes. I mean, I love that… you know... I think this is like another great example of like when you let go of the control… and sometimes that has to do with thinking less about the business and stepping away from it...

DEBBIE: ...I didn't have any control of the situation. Yeah. 

SAMIA: ...yes. 

DEBBIE: I was like, right, this is the time, get on your bike. 

SAMIA: Yes… 

DEBBIE: …I'll tell you when we stop… so that, you know… so there was a giude… there's a bus at the front… So it was a proper challenge… I was at the back. I was last every day. I was there with one job. I was there to make the five days… it was 360 kilometers. I'm doing the 360 kilometer. I don't care if I'm an hour behind the other people… that wasn't… I was never going… that was never part of my agenda. And I was very lucky that we had a guide that was, was happy. But you know, I had no control... I didn't know what hotels to stay there. I didn't know where we were going. I didn't know when we were stopping. Somebody else gave me some hariba and some curry. We had curry three times a day. That’s one thing I might like to be in control of… some different food. And it was just a case of just doing what needed to be done to achieve a goal. 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

DEBBIE: And that's where we're goal setting for next year… we want to break it down that easy… to say… I just know that I need to... in order to get my financial goal for the year, I need to earn this a month. And that means I need to earn this per week. That means I need to have this income per day on average, obviously... So then it just breaks it down… On day one I say, okay, I need to go and get 500 pounds worth of business today, or I need to get 100 pounds worth of business, or I need to get whatever I need to get. And I just step it down and say right, so that's today's goal. So if I wanted to sign one person up on say, a goal setting course, say 500... How many people do I need to speak to, to get a yes? Then how many people do I need to be visible in front of to get on a discovery call to get a yes… then we're just talking about numbers. Now the stress is gone because I know exactly what I need to do to achieve my goal. So how much nicer is that then going… okay, I need to achieve this figure by the end of the year… I need to do it all today... I'll do everything today, and then I've done it. And then what I'll do is I'll put the goal up and I'll double it because I've already achieved it. And I'm just near enough, exhausted myself… I've got no mind left, I've got no inspiration, no creativity left, because I've put myself into a position that isn't simple and easy and logical… If I put myself in a position, or put you in a position, and say... Okay, what do you want to achieve next year... Okay, well, let's have a look at what that looks like… So what does that mean that you've got to do monthly... What does that mean you have to do weekly... What does that mean you have to daily… okay… so that today, this is all you need to worry about...

SAMIA: Yes, I love that you, you know highlighted also, the idea of doing something that's bite-sized… that's simple and easy, and achievable. Because I think that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned from one of my coaches, and that has, you know, really changed my life. That sometimes, you know, the… the… the issue is that the goal that we set for ourselves is just not simple and easy and achievable for us. And so sometimes, all you really need to do is to break things down to the even smaller, smaller, smaller bite size bits, until you are at that point where you're like, oh, I can manage this. And it's simple and easy and achievable...

DEBBIE: And the beauty of that is that you still got control because you set the vision and you set the goal. So you're in charge of that… and you're in charge of… it just comes back down to the numbers of how many people… You know, I heard a wonderful story…. most people don't like sales. But I heard a wonderful story about a lady who made 91 calls to get a yes. Okay, she made 91 calls and on that 91 call, she got a yes. Some people are gonna go, oh my gosh, she made 91 calls! She just went, so I now know my… I know my number. I know every time I make 91 calls, I'm gonna get a sale. So I just need to make another 91 calls like that to get another sale... It's just amazing. The difference that your mind can put… Some people would have given up but she was just like… No, no, I just need to do that again. And the reality is now she's got a yes, that comes down… the number… because she’s more confident and understands what the selling points were. And then it comes down a little bit more and a little bit more. And then maybe she's making 10 calls and getting a sale because she's worked out… but she didn't give up. But yeah, I understand the wanting to be in control, because we all want to be in control. You know, no one wants to jump out of a plane without a parachute. Not really, unless there is no choice… But if you can jump out of that plane, or you can, you know… It just go back to that same thing... If I want to go to Scotland, I'm going to follow the instructions because I've set my destination... I've said I want to be here in Scotland… and I can even set whenever I want to go on a road or I want to go on the motorway… whether I want to sit in the services for an hour or never want to go in the services… that's all fine… I'm in control of all of that. But ultimately, I still need to know what the directions are that I need to make to get there. Or the alternative is, I can just get in my car and I can just start driving. I hope I end up in Scotland. My intentions are the same, right... I really want to be in Scotland… I'm gonna go for New Year… or whatever you're going for… What if I just get in my car and drive… and go… right, I think it's north. Is that way north? I think that way is north… let's go. How much harder would that be…

SAMIA: Yes…

DEBBIE: …if we do that in business? We still want that same goal. I know what my goal is... But I know that if I just get out there and trundle around, I might just be lucky and get, you know, on the right motorway or the wrong motorway… Or I might end up in Cornwall, and then, you know, it's… Cornwall might be equally as lovely, but it's not what I wanted.

SAMIA: Right. Right. And that makes me think about, you know, again going back to that idea of, you know, as business owners, we can feel very lonely, we can feel, you know, alone in what we're doing... And one of my favorite, favorite, favorite tips, if I may say so... for making change fun and easy, or for accomplishing any goal really, would be like… if you are unclear about how to get to where you need to go... ask for help, ask for some directions... Because there's no point in just randomly...

DEBBIE: But we do... we do… you know, I literally just… my friend who I just… who I just met, I was her coach a couple of years ago… and she said to me... I've just… I've had five months where I've done nothing. I just froze. I froze for five months… because she'd done that thing of being successful and then stopped. Because then… because when we're successful, we get scared...

SAMIA: Right.

DEBBIE: So… which is a really bizarre thing. But when we successful, we get scared because everything's starting to change. 

SAMIA: Right.

DEBBIE: And remember the chaos comfort blanket... I'm not comfortable with this nice, easy life. I'm comfortable with chaos, because that's what I know. You know, that's the thing that sits on my shoulder and talks to me and says, Oh Dad, don't worry about it. Just throw yourself in there at the deep end. And let's see if you sink or swim. And don't worry if your heart's beating too fast or, you know, if you now got to a 20-hour day… Because you probably could achieve what you needed to achieve in five hours if you knew what you're doing and you asked for some help. But let's not do it... So, you know, the chaos comfort blanket is a hard one to just go... No, you stay over there. This nice easy life, this nice, simple, no drama, no highs, no big low, that… that life is the one that you need… is the one that's going to get you to where you want to be. That's the successful one. And that's the sane one... The other one is insane. But it has the drama, it has the highs, it has the lows. And when you've got that chaos, you think it's all going to be worth it in the end. But you never get to the end... 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

DEBBIE: Because when you get to the end, you're so happy with the chaos, you create a bit more.

SAMIA: Right.

DEBBIE: You know, somebody who wants to earn, I don't know, six figures this year, will want seven figures next year. And then they want eight figures… and then to me it just doesn't… It doesn't stop… somebody wants one shop… they would be so happy the first time they open a shop… then they want 10, or…. do you know what I mean? We will move the goal posts…

SAMIA: That’s right…

DEBBIE: …very much, I suppose, like the bike rides, in that, you know, when I first got back on a bike five years ago, I hadn't ridden it since before the accident. I just cycled to the end of the path… I was on top of the world. You know, just at the end of the path… I was wobbly. I was like, my dad had just taken my stabilizers off. I was like 50 years old… and go… oh, look at me... I cycled down the path. Where did I move my goals to? I moved my goals to 230-mile bike ride… sand, rocks, rivers, cows, whatever. We cycled through everything over there… up mountains, down mountains... But you know how I got from that one down the path to there was to keep increasing my... was practicing… I had a plan. So when I had a training plan this year that said, ride 10 miles, next week ride 15 miles... Next week ride 20 miles but with some hills… then ride more… And then eventually I'm doing 50-mile bike rides, which when I first saw it on the plan, I thought was insane. I looked at and thought whoever is going to be able to do that? Now I'm like, I'm doing a 50-mile ride for fun on a Sunday morning before anyone else has even gotten out of bed. 

SAMIA: Yeah.

DEBBIE: How? And I never would have done if I didn't have a plan, if I didn't break it down, to go… this is what I need to do...

SAMIA: There is that, and also you have a value for adventure. So this is not just a random plan that you came up with… you came up with a plan that is in alignment with your values and with the vision that you have for your life...

DEBBIE: Yes, my mobility… because I will celebrate my mobility. But also, cycling is very good for your knees, for arthritis. My surgeon, who is actually called Sunny Day, beautiful name… He loves… you know, he encouraged me cycling. So I'm helping myself, I'm having an adventure, I'm in India. And, you know, people are taking selfies with me… they are running out of their houses to wave to us… they were wonderful... And I'm seeing the Taj Mahal. And I'm seeing a cow in the middle of the road. And I'm seeing a took-took that's coming down on my side of the road, as opposed to that side of the road. And it's, it's insane, but it's joyous... And that’s 10 days that I took out of my life. I trained a lot for it because I didn't want to have to get on a bus. I wanted to be able to achieve it. And I gave up a lot to train for it. So that wasn't so easy... I stayed in on Saturday night. I missed festivals, I missed parties. I would just stay and probably in bed by nine o'clock on a Saturday night because it was so hot and we were cycling in the morning. And I didn't want to cycle with a hangover or cycle and not feel in top form... I saw somebody a year ago, I can't remember her proper name, Amy… She's was a boxer and she was at a festival and people asked her how she got out of bed in the mornings to do the hill runs… you know, what motivates her to get out and do that hill run. And this stuck with me… I don't know if it just gelled with me or if it'll gel with you... So she said, nothing motivates me to get out of bed in the morning, nothing… she said… but what does motivate me is that I know that in six months time I have to get in the ring. And I'm gonna. And if I haven't got out of bed, I'm gonna get beat, I'm gonna get embarrassed, I'm gonna get hurt. And it'd be my fault, because I didn't prepare myself... That really resonated with me… and saying… okay, this is something that's really important for myself. So this can go for business, or it can go for fitness, or it could go for weight loss… whatever goal it is that you've got, you know, it doesn't have to be business. But if there's something that you want to achieve, and you don't put in the work to get there, properly put in work to get there, then it's your fault if it goes wrong...

SAMIA: Right. 

DEBBIE: That’s a high level of ownership.

SAMIA: Yes. And I think like for me, again, it just makes me think… because I know as business owners, one of the things where we can get stuck is that sometimes we are doing a lot of work. But it's not the right work… in the sense that it's not the… 

DEBBIE: It’s sideways…

SAMIA: …right... It's like you distract yourself… not even distract yourself… It's like… one of my coaches would be like… okay, Samia, take account of how you're spending your day, you know, the work time that you're spending in it… I was working a good, straight 8 to 10 hours a day very consistently... He's like, what are you actually doing in that time? And the thing is that as a… especially like as a coach, trainer, healer where, you know, if… it's like, really part of me like, loves to actually create trainings and create… you know, be in that creative state… And that's good, that's fine. That's certainly needed... And if that's… if I just keep myself busy most of the time doing just that… then when am I going to go out and talk to people and, you know, do the marketing and the sales… and so you can keep yourself busy, but doing things that are not actually helping you achieve the goals that you have...

DEBBIE: And that's one of the biggest things of having the vision plan, you know, is that you will question yourself and say, okay, I'm going to do this. So yes, I've done the trainings, but if I know today that I need to make… I need to sell one course, okay, one training course. So if I know today that I need to a sell training course, five days a week… I just need to do one sale a day. That's all I need to do. And then that compound effect is going to get me to results… So I just realized how dim my screen was, so I brighted up. Better late than never... So if you understand what your goal for that day is… okay, what it is you need to achieve when you're creating or when you're not talking to people, you would ask yourself, Is this getting me to… Is this going to achieve my goal for the day? 

SAMIA: Yes.

DEBBIE: You question that and say, is this taking me toward my goal? Or is it taking me away from my goal? Because if it's not taking you towards your goal, then you'd have to kind of sit down and say... Do I really want to achieve that goal? You know, what is this... and that's when it starts coming back to your beliefs and comes back to some mental blocks of… it could be an imposter thing that you're… you want your training calls to be absolutely perfect before you show it to anyone. So you trap yourself, making it perfect, you know… You have people who could be coming in, right, to buy your course, but you keep changing it… improvement is never ever ready and no one ever sees it… Compare that to the person who sells the course before they've written it. You know, those two people… so somebody who sells it and then says… right, I need to write the course now because someone's interested... Because you're… and what you're doing if you… and you're smiling, so I'm guessing that is what you do… is you're only using your own opinion on whether it's any good or not. To get your proof of concept, you have to go show it to somebody to say… does this work for you? And if they don't like it, how much better would it be for them to say… oh, it kind of works, but if it had this, then that would be perfect... Or actually you could lose all of that, because it doesn't really add any value. And it's gonna take me too long. But I love this part... So you maybe need to look at it a different ways to say, let me just go talk to somebody about my work. And I'm going to talk to somebody and get some feedback on whether they'd be interested, whether that would work for them, whether that be a balance… And then you're not having that vulnerability of… you know, no doesn't matter… if someone says no, doesn't mean they say no. Someone says to me... I can't use that example… when a server asks most people, do you want desert, they say no… if you ask them again, they say yes. Because they go, oh, hang on, what is it? What have you got? That's the best example, right… Desert? No, no, no desert. Are you sure? Well, what is for desert? Oh, it is apple pie or it’s chocolate mousse. Oh, wow. No, chocolate mousse sounds good. Then they bought the chocolate mousse... The no was just, that was just processing… you know....

SAMIA: Yes.

DEBBIE: Not all… I do believe that no doesn't always mean no… it means ask someone else... But you know, that's processing. Sometimes that's just social processing of the question of… it's got to be good this morning. But now you're talking to me, so from my point of view of... if you know what your goal is for that day, and this is where the magic is, it’s in the goal setting… It's something I didn't always used to do. I did wing it a lot. I'm not going to, I'm not going to lie... And that's when I was in the chaos. 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

DEBBIE: To come out of the chaos, I go, Okay, I need to do this... So I need to get some feedback on my course to know whether it's a product that someone is interested in or not a product that somebody is interested in. And then the next day I go... okay, so I didn't sell it today, but I know I need to just make these changes. And then I go back to that person and say... How about now? And they go… oh, this amazing, and that's perfect for me… And then you just ask them to recommend a friend. And then you've got your two sales on your two days. But you've got it with proper intention, you know, you've got it with… and that… How much easier does that sound than the thought of going out there and having to sell 30… or fill up a… you know what… it’s that we make our goals so massive that they're almost unachievable…

SAMIA: That’s right…

DEBBIE: I’ve got to fill a venue. I've got to fill a training course… No… what I’ve to do is just get one person. And that maybe means I've got to talk to five people. And I've got to get the attention of 15 people to get five people to want to talk to me to get one person to say yes to me… so okay, well, where do I go and find 15 people? 

SAMIA: Yeah.

DEBBIE: And then… and that's your day. And if you've achieved that, because that's your goal… and we've broke it down, as simple as that, then how happy you're going to be… and that's change that is manageable… that’s change… that flow is easier and is not stressful. And then you just replicated that everyday, and you’re going to get better and better. 

SAMIA: Right.

DEBBIE: And then next thing you know is you're like, I am nailing this. I've got this all day long. And your joy and your confidence… and the fun is back in your business...

SAMIA: Right. Debbie, I'm having so much fun talking to you and we have to wrap up for today...

DEBBIE: …I just rambled on...

SAMIA: No, no, no, you weren't rambling at all. You were sharing so much amazing wisdom with with us. And I thank you so much for that... Do you have any last thoughts you would like to share for right now?

DEBBIE: Well, thank you so much for inviting me on, and I have loved it... I think it is just, you know, for anybody who's feeling a little bit stuck, or if, you know, resonates with anything that I've said, then please do get in touch... We have goal-setting workshops in January. And they can be online as well… but they're super, super powerful. I guess my message is, don't live in the chaos… don't stay in the chaos. However comfortable you think it is, it is so much better out of the chaos. And if you just do the small steps, they will take you away from the chaos and they'll take you to the joy, to the happiness… and as your avatar says… make change fun and easy... And the very last thing is you know, I slipped it in earlier, but it was quite quick… But how do we eat an elephant? One bite at a time…

SAMIA: All right. I love that... Thank you, thank you so much, Debbie. I really appreciate that. And yes, to all of our listeners, I just want to remind you… please make sure to check the show notes because we will drop Debbie's links in there so you can get in touch with her, get some help and support... And until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy. :)