SAMIA:  Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Hola, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really, really awesome to be with you again. And yes, we have another very special guest with us today, and it's Galeema Davids. And she's a Wife Coach. I think that's so cool. Welcome... welcome Galeema.

GALEEMA: Thank you so much. So lovely to be here with you, Alhamdulillah (Praise be to God). Thank you for having me, for inviting me and for doing this. Yeah...

SAMIA: Yes. I'm like really looking forward to our conversation. And actually, I'm gonna invite you to jump right in and tell us more about who you are and what you do...

GALEEMA: Okay, so yeah, like you said, I'm Galeema. I was just telling you how beautiful it is when it's pronounce properly because it's called Galeema… so often people say “Galeema”, which is fine, Alhamdulillah (Praise be to God). But it's so lovely to hear this diction and intonation… and I'm Galeema. And I'm a Wife Coach. Yes, Alhamdulillah (Praise be to God)... I help women or support women… facilitate them in the journey towards connecting more deeply with themselves and connecting with their core strength, Alhamdulillah (Praise be to God). So, yeah, that's what I do...

SAMIA: That is really cool. So tell me more... So when you talk about like helping women and coaching them… what is like one of the major issues that you see the women struggling with?

GALEEMA: So many different things, you know… but I know we talked about humor and marriage…. and we decided to tackle that topic. And you just asked me that question now… just the first thing that comes to my mind is that, that is actually the thing that we… I say we women because I'm one of them… that we struggle with, that's a big challenge for us… is to be light-hearted and humorous and funny in our marriages, you know. We often concentrate on connection and developing that connection in the marriage… and understanding, and the communication… we often focus on a lot of those things. That is a very essential piece I learned about… and in life and in marriage in particular, one of the things that I often referred to… as one of the things I wish I had known much sooner in life and in marriage, you know… and that essential piece, is… it's the humor… it's having fun, and making the marriage this kind of playground… you just experiment and explore, and you have fun, and you laugh and find the humor. So that essential piece is I think, often neglected... I know I neglected it… it was like, you know, the blind spot. And yet, it's so powerful, and it has the power and ability to transform everything in the marriage, you know. So when we kind of give connection a bit of a break sometimes, and we give this need that we have to communicate… we give that a break sometimes and we just have fun… sometimes that in itself just transformes the marriage. You don't even have to sit down and have long conversations… and have this deep need to want to connect… you know, just having that lightheartedness and fun, and having the humor, and focusing on that can actually give you the result that you want, in an effortless way.

SAMIA: Yeah.

GALEEMA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Why do you think people struggle with being more lighthearted in their relationships and having, you know, this fun element in their relationships?

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GALEEMA: That's such a good question. Because it's something I was thinking also… starting with myself… All of this always starts with me, because I had so many struggles in my marriage, and in so many things. I am a good researcher from when I studied at university… I researched and studied communications. And so I'm good at researching. So I always go back to the research and find out things about what will make the marriage, you know… what will bring the best results in the marriage and what will help marriage flourish and things like that. So I love to research about marriage and finding out what helps the marriage and what destroys the marriage as well... So back to your question… Why is it difficult? It's because we are so inhibited. And I know this too well because I am one of those people… we're so inhibited and we are so scared and it’s unknown territory, you know, to put ourselves out there, to be funny even… because we don't know… when you're trying to be funny, you don't know if anyone's going to laugh, you don't know if you're actually going to be funny, you know… So you have to be brave about it and just… it is, it's risky... So being funny, being humorous… it's kind of stepping out of your comfort zone… it’s being uncomfortable. And being okay with being uncomfortable. So it's a lot of, I think, self-work, to get you to that point even to be able to be funny in your marriage, to be able to be light-hearted and humorous… and take the risk of just being funny and fun...

SAMIA: Yeah... So, are you saying that this is then something we can learn? So it's like… because, you know, I know that I had this misconception that there are some people who just are funny and light-hearted and they just have that kind of personality. And then other people are just not like that. And I know, like for a long time, I was a very, very serious and silent person. And actually, I think it... not necessarily intimidated other people.. but it just made it difficult for me to connect with other people and for other people to feel like they could even connect with me… because I was just so silent and serious, pretty much all the time. So yeah… so you're saying… no, this is something we can learn to change and improve about ourselves. So how do you go about doing that?

GALEEMA: You know it is something that can be learned, I think. And I'm still learning myself and so many other women as well… women that I coach and women that are around me… So I definitely think that like so many things, it is something that we can learn... But we… you do get the women who this comes naturally to… and she has a special spark about her… You can see that she's just… she's different to other women because it just flows for her, it comes naturally to her. And if you study a woman who… if you observe a woman who is funny, and is able to just be funny and not be so inhibited and just be daring and be confident enough to be daring... you... it's really interesting when you see the difference between a woman who is not afraid to just be and be confident, and the woman who is inhibited and scared and too afraid to take risks. So while it's something that I think can be learned, and it takes practice, you can get to the point where this woman who's naturally funny… you can get to the point eventually through a lot of practice. That, but yeah, it's a vast question I think. So your question was how do you get to that point? And I think it's through devotion, through learning from women who naturally have this knack… doing some research as well… always helps to do some research… and to try it out. So do the research... Look up different ways to just… different jokes… different ways to be funny… watch some videos… get an idea of what it is to be funny… why are people funny… what makes them funny? Why do some women have it and some women don't? What do, you know, what makes that they have it…? So study these women in real life. And then also watch some videos… learn about them… study about them. Yeah, I think...

SAMIA: Do you have any specific, like, exercises that you recommend women try out so they can develop this side of themselves?

GALEEMA: So, I think watching videos, watching funny videos... You know, I was very much listening to what you were saying earlier about the personality type… about your personality type… and how you didn't always feel like you connected with people because you were just quiet… And I’m very much like that. And I'm still like that. I have moments of being like that... I think we all have different parts of our personalities. And it also very much depends on the people that we surround ourselves with. So I would say surround yourself… find moments where you actually do surround yourself with funny people… people with a different personality than what you're used to. Somebody that resonates with you… people who you can click with… but who are also funny and who are light hearted… because that does open you. Because whoever we surround ourselves with, it affects us… the energy… we pick up on that energy. So I think that's important, and it's powerful. And then just watching the comedy… change your genre, change the things that you usually watch… switch it up to include comedy and find things to laugh about… so that when you're laughing, you tend to have that energy. So yeah, just changing everything to funny.

SAMIA: Yeah, and I really like your idea of, you know, sort of, exposing yourself to different kinds of personalities… because there isn't just one way to be funny, or to have a light hearted kind of personality. There's, like for example, even if you look at professional comedians as it were… they are funny in different ways. And for different reasons. Like some people I know, especially in like some of the olden forms of comedy, it was very physically oriented… where, you know, the person themselves, there weren't trying to be funny… I mean in terms of… but they would do funny things… like they would fall or something. And it'd be very funny to us to see them falling or, you know, having funny things happen to them. And a lot of classic comedy was that kind of more physical comedy. But I see that also, now especially, there's more… like different kinds of comedy where people are being funny in terms of the jokes… like, they'll say funny things… but some people will actually, like, say things with a very straight face... But nonetheless, what they're saying makes you laugh. And other people are just… are saying jokes or funny things where they're actually being funny and making, you know, like different voices and things like that… That's more of like the… I guess what you might call the stereotype of what a funny person is like...

GALEEMA: Yeah, yeah. So I think it goes back to trial and error, you know, because sometimes you'll, you'll be risking it and you'll be trying to be funny, and you won't be… you won't be funny. And you probably won't get the desired response… But to be brave enough to recover from that, and to be confident enough to recover from that, and do it in a, you know, in a in a beautiful way, you know, in a dignified way. And you can do it... it's fine, you know, we all mess up. That in itself can be funny, that in itself can be a moment for humor, depending on how you recover from that and how you deal with it. So yeah, sometimes something could be funny to one person and it could be not funny to another. I think... in the marriage, especially... I think it's... like I said earlier, you know… it's a playground and you are… you should be comfortable enough to take these risks… But also not too comfortable… because I think in that uncomfortableness, that is where the magic lies. And that is where the fun actually is in the marriage… when you are a bit uncomfortable, and it's a bit risky for you. And, you know, it could be either/or... and you are taking a chance, you’re being daring. So, yeah, that, I think, is where the fun actually is in marriage.

SAMIA: Right, Right. And especially like if both of you as a husband and wife can communicate this intention with each other and be like… you know, this is a value that I have and I would love to cultivate this in our relationship. So you know, when you try different things out, then you know your partner knows what you're trying to do and they can  support you in your efforts. And hopefully you can support them back.

GALEEMA: Yes, yes, that's a good way of looking at it. Yeah, yeah, it's good. I think it also depends on the personality type of the people… of the husband and the wife… and maybe more especially of the wife… whether she will need that soft pillow to fall on. If she's being really risky, if she's really taking a big leap, and she knows herself well enough to know, if she's going to feel a bit down, or she's going to feel a bit affected or her self esteem will be damaged a little bit, then maybe she does want to talk to her husband about it… and tell him… you know, I’m trying something out, don't be too hard on me… or don't, you know, consider lovingly how you respond with these, with these things… But then you could also get a different scenario or a different situation with a woman who is strong enough within herself, and she's strong enough to recover from that… and then she can surprise her husband with whatever she comes up with... she can be so unexpected and spontaneous about it. And that also, I think is even more… kind of a bigger element, more effective, and a more powerful element to find in the marriage… when it's unexpected… When he's just like… I don't know… if she said something funny, or she did something funny that she never usually does… and it's out of the ordinary, and she just like pulled the rug from under his feet. But it's in a good way, you know… And that just completely, just flips the marriage… and fun. Yeah...

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah... you know, I think for sure, one of the problems I see a lot of us struggle with… and why, you know, like as a happiness expert, I think, you know, that we are/can be so challenged with our happiness, is that we take ourselves way too seriously.

GALEEMA: Yeah, totally, totally... You know, I speak about these things, but I never want people to think that I exclude myself from it. Because I'm one of those people. I also take myself way too seriously, sometimes. And sometimes you are completely caught off guard. You don't even realize until after the event… I took that to seriously… I don't know what overcame me… You know, so we all, I think, go through… I know I do… I still go through those moment. But definitely, I think when we can be confident in ourselves, and give us ourselves those essential things that we're looking for from the world and from some people around us, from our husband even… if we can give ourselves that, we are so much better… we are so much more able to just be this gift for the world, and just be this free spirit and just be the love and the happiness. And you know, not focus so much on neediness.. on this one thing so much… on needing so much from the people around us…

SAMIA: Yeah, it's like, well… we all have needs, and we all want and need support in our lives. And if you… at the same time there's maybe some better ways of having our needs met and getting people motivated to help us out. Because if you're like, really… you know, like you were saying Galeema… it's like if you have this more, like, positive, happy energy around you, it puts other people more at ease. And so then it actually helps… in a way, by having this lighter energy around you, you're helping other people help you better.

GALEEMA: Yeah, yes, it's a beautiful exchange, and it just works so harmoniously. But I hear what you're saying also. It's not easy. There can be moments when it’s very tough, especially in the marriage… The marriage is, I think one of those very difficult relationships. And it takes a lot of work. And understandably so, a lot of us, we focus on the connection, and the communication, and understanding in the marriage because it can be really hard sometimes. And so when you have those pieces of the puzzle… I think of it as a puzzle and there are so many different pieces... So the connection, the communication… that's not the only parts of the marriage that is needed for the marriage to flourish. You know, the humor is a very essential part. But at the same time, I can understand why so much focus is put on communication… because we’re always feeling misunderstood… and we… when we have a need of wanting to be connected… because we're always feeling disconnected from our spouse… So my point was… I just forget what my point was... Just give me a minute to think. Yeah. But so... I just lot it…

SAMIA: So one thing you made me think about is, you know, this idea that you mentioned… there's different pieces that go into making a really healthy happy relationship. Can you share with us a little bit more about some of the other pieces? And I think what we were… what you were getting at was helping us see the connections between the different pieces also...

GALEEMA:  Yeah, probably… I zone out sometimes… A friend of mine calls it mommy's brain. Because we see it so much amongst kids. And yeah, it's just… yeah, I didn't know, subhanallah (Glory be to God). So the different… other pieces… I think, the essential pieces from my experience, and from my research, and just what I think is… is the communication, the connection... I think admiration… admiring your spouse and actually having respect for the person, as a person… You know, I think that's essential. I think that's the starting point. I think just that respect and admiration is very important. So I think that's an important piece of the puzzle, of the marriage puzzle. Yeah, communication... And then I think humor is an important piece. And with humor, I think also, is this very important element… and it matches in with humor… and it’s that spark, that desire, that... that chemistry, you know… And I think we underestimate, we neglect that… we neglect in the marriage how important chemistry is, how important that fiery attraction is for a husband, for a wife. So I think that's also a very important piece of the puzzle. But it's funnily enough that you talking about being funny and being humorous. Because I think that ties in with being funny… Because when you think of chemistry, I know… I don't know if you know, this lady, she's an amazing woman, Ester Perel...  She talks a lot about marriage, and what helps the marriage thrive, and what kills the marriage... So Ester Perel is her name, and she speaks about love and desire. And so she says, love is the connection part of the marriage that we want… especially as women, we want to feel loved, we want to feel connected, we want to feel close. And then comes the communication… that comes in as well, we want to feel like we’re in communication constantly with our spouses. So that's the last part, but a very important element of the marriage is desire. And we need both… We need to be constantly feeding both in order to have a flourishing marriage. So the desire part I think, is we... we humor… what we were talking about… because that desire... Ester Perel refers to it as the space between the spouses, as the distance, as the unknown, as that risk that you're taking. So not kind of taking your spouse for granted. Oh, he's... I'm so used to him… we've been married for 20 years… he's just like part of the furniture… you know he's always going to be there... You're basically taking him for granted. So Subhanallah (Glory be to God), we are laughing about it, but it's actually something that kills the marriage. You know, it can be so disasterous and so detrimental to the marriage, that it could end up actually killing the marriage. So Ester Perel refers to desire as an important element in helping the marriage survive… and not just survive, but flourish. Because we learn then not to take our spouse for granted. And in that risk, and in that unknown, those feelings are all put in the same bracket, you know… because those feeling... I don't know… those feeling just help us to feel how important this person is in our lives… just you know even in that risk of wanting to be funny, and not being funny perhaps, even in that… just that feeling that you get afterwards… it is a feeling of… each year I appreciate him. You know, he might not always be here… and it's just that you're not taking him for granted. So yeah, so that's maybe the other element of a successful marriage...

SAMIA: Yeah. And I suppose also… maybe you can share more with us about… especially in the context of long-term relationships… I mean, I'm sure, pretty much all the couples who become couples do it wanting to have a healthy, long-term relationship, especially like when you're… when you're a couple in the context of, you know, getting married… I'm sure no one wants to get married with the intention of, you know, breaking it off, or getting divorced or separated anytime soon, or ever. And yet, you know, obviously, that's an issue that we face in our communities where there's a lot of separation… And actually, having a long healthy marriage is not the norm, you know. And I think maybe one of the issues that we need awareness and more education about is how things can change and look different as you grow together. Like, I know… like for example, I think about my parents or my grandparents… my parents have now been married, mashallah (as God willed), for 44 years... So, I mean, that's a long time to be together. And I know, my mom… I've heard both my mom and dad talk about how their relationship has evolved, and how they have changed and changed each other over time… and how they are together, how they express their love to each other, how they express and practice, you know, other aspects of their togetherness, and even the desire aspect of it all… sort of shifts and evolves over time. And in some cases, if you're not being proactive about making sure that your relationship, you know, that you're taking care of it and growing it in a healthy way… like you were saying, it can get to that point where you just start to take your partner for granted. And you know, it's like, oh, he's no different than the furniture...

GALEEMA: Yes. Yes. Sorry. So what was the question?

SAMIA: So yeah, my question was more about… so as we think about the evolution of, like, a relationship, and you think about keeping it healthy and keeping that love and desire alive… are there different things for us to consider or do in the different stages? If there are any definable stages that you're...

GALEEMA: Okay, I don't think they are any definable stages. I think it should just be consistent and continuous, from beginning to right through, you know… So the things I think a married couple could do… it is such simple things, but it creates magic in the marriage. So say, for instance, your husband is a lecturer, or maybe speaks to a big group of people. You could go and attend one of these gatherings. You could tell him you're going to be there or you could tell him nothing, and just surprise him, and just be sitting in the crowd and watching him. And it's been researched, I think… but I read this somewhere that… just observing your husband, or your spouse, your wife… just observing from a distance, seeing him in his element, seeing him perform, seeing him at his best… that in itself sparks chemistry, it sparks passion in the marriage. So you could surprise him and let him just see… oh, here is somebody I know -- it’s my wife in the audience! I didn't know, I didn't expect that… You know, you could tell him you're going to be there and he wouldn't know where you're sitting. And that could also help create some kind of passion and some kind of chemistry in the marriage. So that's one thing you could do. And I also think.. just changing things up, just for yourself, and then also in the marriage… But even just for yourself… So for instance, if you were to just go for a regular walk, maybe you do a walk every day. And this one particular day you change the route, or you do something different on that day. That in itself, just that change in your life, in your routine, it does something to a person. And then you bring that energy to your relationship with your husband. And then you could do something with your husband as well… a different task. I think the point being… just changing things, keeping it fun and fresh… thinking of new creative ways of being, of living, of being around your husband, being with yourself and being with your marriage. And so yeah… just send him a message at a time of the day that he wouldn't expect. So I think that also is the key… doing something that is not expected… something that you don't usually do… just like… surprise him out of the blue, do something different… send him a message, maybe a funny message that he would never have expected. All of these things create an element, a dynamic in the marriage, which is necessary… It sparks a desire, it sparks the chemistry… it creates that… not taking things for granted. And especially for your husband… he will feel loved and appreciated. And likewise… you'll get that same treatment, inshallah (God willing).

SAMIA: Inshallah (God willing), yes. Thank you for sharing… sharing all of that amazing wisdom and experience that you have. Do you have any last thoughts or ideas that you would like to share with us as we begin to wrap up?

GALEEMA: Your husband should never feel like he knows you completely. That is also a really important thing.

SAMIA: Tell me more about that…

GALEEMA: Yeah, there should always be that 5% mystery… there should always be the 5% of unknown... Like, you should maybe one day tell him something that he's never heard about you. And he should be like… Oh, like, I thought I knew everything… and he didn't. So you should never feel like he knows everything. You should constantly be surprising him with new information about your life. And the way to do that is to constantly be improving your life and to constantly be evolving. You know, when we not evolving, we're boring… when you're not evolving and growing and trying out new things and doing new things, we become ordinary and routine and expected… and you don't want him to always know what to expect from you. So the expected part is the love that Ester Perel talks about. And we need that, we need routine at times... But we do also need the other parts of it, which is desire, we need the spontaneity, we need a bit of the unexpectedness… the, you know… the randomness and things like that. So yeah, he should always be thinking and wondering about you. And you should always be thinking and wondering about him. So you should both... we should all be constantly be doing new things.

SAMIA: Yes. Oh my gosh, that is such an excellent point. Because I know sometimes we can develop an expectation in our relationships that… like, I know for example... I am thinking about so many dramas and movies I've seen where they’ll have couples play games where, you know, you get asked questions about your partner. And the attitude in these contexts is that if you're not able to answer all the questions about your partner correctly, then that's somehow an indication that you don't know them, and you don't love them and your relationship’s not as great… and so the best couples know everything about each other… from the tiniest details of your favorite color and what you like to eat to the deepest desires and everything… and you have to know everything. And if you don't, then that somehow means your relationship is not a good one. And I, you know… whenever I've thought about that, it just makes me feel really stressed… because that's like, such a… like, to me, it feels like so much pressure… like, I have spent all my life for example with my parents and my brother and sister. And I don't think I even know everything about them. And I love them, you know...

GALEEMA: …It’s impossible… it’s impossible.

SAMIA: Yeah.

GALEEMA: Yeah. And it’s so much better when you don't know everything about another person, and even about yourself… you want to be constantly learning… I’m  finding new things, new parts of myself… even the funny part… I mean, I didn’t know I could be funny… but sometimes I can be really funny... So that makes life more interesting, I think. And, yeah, we need to, I think, basically work constantly and consistently to create rich, beautiful lives… and when our lives are rich and juicy and beautiful and exciting for ourselves, firstly, you know, that automatically goes to transfer to the marriage... Yeah.

SAMIA: I love that. Thank you so much. That is a wonderful, wonderful bit of wisdom and advice for us to wrap up for today. And I'm just going to remind all of our listeners… please make sure you check the show notes because we will be adding Galeema's links in there so you can connect with her and get some help and support to improve your relationships… and you know… include more fun in your relationship, and more humor in your relationship, and just make it more fun and easy... So with that, until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy... :)