SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really, really good to be with you again. And you know what... I know you'll be so happy you've tuned in for today's episode. It's a very special episode... It's actually part two of a conversation and interview that I had with Hafsah Adham. Hafsah is a Confidence Coach who has been coaching for almost eight years... She founded and runs an organization called the Confident Muslim and works primarily, although not exclusively, but primarily with professional Muslims to help them build spiritually centered confidence. And that's what the part one of our conversation was all about… the idea of spiritually centered confidence… what it is, why it is so critical and important, and how it can really make this whole process of confidence building and living with confidence in our lives more fun and easy. So make sure you check that episode out if you haven't already... Now, towards the... like you know… at some point in our conversation talking about spiritually centered confidence, I asked her a question that ended up actually shifting us into talking about a very much related and yet I felt somewhat distinct topic. That is the topic that you're going to be hearing about in just a little bit from her and I together in conversation. And that is the connection between grief and gratitude... Connection between grief and gratitude... And how that came about is that we were talking about spiritually centered confidence. And I asked her about, well, what happens to our spiritually centered confidence when we experience something in our lives, for example, a trauma that might shake our confidence in God, that might make us question, how could a good God, a loving God, a God that's supposed to take care of me and just love me, how could a God like that let a trauma or tragedy like this happen? Because these things happen in our lives, true or true? So that's the question that I posed to her. And here is the response that Hafsa made to my question and the rest of the conversation that we had that spun off from this question centering around grief and gratitude…

HAFSAH: So there's quite a bit to unpack there…. Oh, boy... I'd say first of all, we are all on our individual journey, and no one is in judgment of anyone else. And at the end of the day, we can only embrace whatever reality we feel makes sense to ourselves. So I say that my belief… and I speak on my belief and no judgment to anyone else... It's where I am on my journey, you know, for me only God knows… But, you know, everyone's at a certain stage at a certain frame… I mean, you yourself said earlier, that you know, when you went through your difficulties, and I'm so sorry to hear that, but you when you went through your difficulties, you didn't have access to information and the resources with it that spirituality can bring… the help the comfort... You know, but I truly believe God gives you what you're ready for at the right time, when you're ready... And you know, when your heart is open, and when you work… when it makes sense to you. And you know, there's a lot a lot of factors there that go in... So I can only speak from my perspective. And you know, I can tell you that, I don't think if I didn't have my faith in God, I don't think I'd be able to be sat here and have this conversation with you... After recent events that have happened in my life… if it was not for my faith, I don't believe I would be saying, I don't believe that I would be here… what my faith has given me in probably the biggest calamity that I feel and I pray I ever have to face, you know, has been nothing short of life-saving. And, you know, just… it's given me a way to give context to everything... So that's what I feel spirituality gives, it gives context. Without that context I don't know what, you know, what certain things would means... So what you're referring to is last year, early last year, I lost my husband, very, very, suddenly, without warning... he was healthy. By all accounts to he was just going about the day, as usual… we… you know, I have three children. And we'd made plans for that weekend. And you know, God had made other plans for us. And he expressed that he wasn't feeling well, like he was having a bit of tightness in the chest. And 20 minutes later, his soul had returned to His maker... And it was literally like our lives had been taken up and turned upside down... And I think the hardest part of that was that it was just so sudden, and unexpected, you know… when I guess when there's sickness, or when there's some kind of warning, then, you know, it gives you a little bit of maybe… it's just as hard I'm sure, it's hard in a different way…. But there's a bit of mental preparation, a bit of emotional preparation, perhaps… I can't say because I've not been there. But I can say that having happened having it happens, so suddenly, if not for my faith, I can tell you Samia, I would not be here today... It… you know, because I'd been married for 20 years, it's a lifetime... You're married to somebody build your whole life, you set expectations. And this is why I say that reliance on God that he has a better plan. And that… I, we planned this, but God planned something else for us. And the context that comes with it. 

SAMIA: Yeah.

HAFSAH: That's what gives us that grounding...

SAMIA: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that part of your life with us Sister Hafsah… and you know, I trust that your husband is like resting in peace, is well loved and taken care of with God right now... Amen… Yes, indeed. And can you just maybe share with me a little bit more of like some lessons or some steps that you can share with us right now in terms of like, the healing process and the… you know like we started out the conversation about… talking about confidence… and you know, I, you know, like I was sharing earlier for me, the healing process and the process of regaining my sense of confidence, whether it's in myself or my spirituality… very much, very much connected... So I know we're not really going away from that topic, but just exploring now maybe a different facet of it... So whatever calls to you to share with us now…

HAFSAH: Thank you, yeah... I would say this, that I feel like God prepared me for this moment in many ways... A lot of my work around confidence and spirit… the sort of the spiritual paradigm of confidence and building that connection with Allah and that total reliance on Allah... on God… when we say Allah, we mean God... enabled me to have a relationship with God established that could carry me through what I can... I mean, it's hard for me to even explain Samia that I didn't even know the depths of pain and sadness that could even exist within me when it happened... It's like my right arm was just ripped off…. It's, you know, it was so sudden, it was so raw, it was so without expecting, you know, just not in our vision at all of what the future held… it was just that it was from God... And I remember, and actually, I didn't even know this, but people told me afterwards… that on… because when it happens, you're in a, you're in an altered state. And there's a lot of things people tell me that happened on the day and afterwards that I have actually no recollection of... and I think maybe that's part of the trauma… that apparently I'd been holding my kid's hand and saying, "We will not question God, this is the will of God, we will not question God”... and I can put my hand on my heart and say that I have never questioned God ‘why’… why did you do this? And I'll tell you why... Because as much as the grief and the pain and the hurt and the sadness is there, I know, I know, fundamentally, that we don't live in this world as though it's forever. This world we consider a temporary pitstop, in comparison to the eternity that awaits us. And so this is a temporary separation. And that's part of our belief. That's part of what faith gives us… This idea that it's a temporary separation. Secondly, that God does things for the best reason... And what gives me a lot of comfort is thinking that, God willing, my husband's in the best place, and he's free from the burdens and the stress of this world. And God willing, he's you know, he's in peace in his, you know, wherever he is in the next world right now... And that gives me comfort too… to know that, you know, that perhaps this was God calling him back from His mercy because my husband had passed the test of this world. And you know… and I also know that God gives us the tools to cope… like part of one of his names is al-Latif, which means The Most Gentle... And I learned from my spiritual mentors, that part of al-Latif is that when He tests, he also gives you the tools to cope... not just to cope, but to thrive… and for something to come from there. But you know… so not question... But I will say this, that grief is extremely messy... And it's not linear. You know, when they say grief hits in waves, it's true. And even to this day, even to this day Samia, probably if I had this conversation with you yesterday, I may not have been able to get through it. Because yesterday was a day where the feelings were a bit intensified, and, you know, a few triggers and you know… and it's a process I understand, it's a process... But grief is not linear. It's messy... There are times where you think, Okay, start… my body’s starting to accept… I'm start... and then the next day it hits you like a big wave, you know… and it's just intense… and I've learnt a few things. One is give yourself permission to grieve, it's part of the journey... And grief comes in many forms for many things… whether it's the loss of a loved one, whether it's the loss of health, whether it's the loss of a lifestyle that you had, you know… and there are many levels of grief. There are many ways to experience grief… but I, you know, for me, in particular, this experience of grief has been on many levels extremely painful, extremely hard… but equally… the sadness and the loss is there... but equally, I feel immersed in gratitude. And that is what I feel faith offers me... and people might think, then you're grieving, how can you feel grateful? Grateful for what? right… You've lost your husband... What are you grateful for? But when you're linked to your faith, and when you believe in God, and when you know that there is goodness in everything, as we are told... Then you look for the khair - the good, right... Which… ‘khair’ means good. You look for the good, you look for the ways that God compensates… and He has sent so many mercies and He has you know… we know with every hardship, there are so many eases... And if we stay connected to looking for that… it's not mutually exclusive, it's not that you just say, well, I'm grateful, and you know, and that's it... because that's a bit of what some call spiritual bypassing... Meaning that we just say... I'm just gonna say, I'm grateful, I'm just gonna believe in God, I'm just gonna… but we're not actually dealing with the fullness of the emotions that come up... It's, it's grieving and it's gratitude. It's allowing both processes... You know, I took grieving, grief counseling which, to be honest, was a lifeline, as well... And so there's a lot of work that we need to do on ourselves whilst we stay connected to God in gratitude… in, you know, in having the best opinion of Him, and trust in Him, and knowing that this is temporary, and there's a higher purpose to all of this. And there's a reason for all of this... My children had to change overnight… they had to step up in many ways that you know… so there's lots to say about it all. There's a lot of comfort in our Quran, in our Prophetic tradition as well.

SAMIA: Oh... Thank you again for sharing that. And you brought up so many, like really deep, deep,  bits of wisdom to follow up on. I think, for me, one of the points that I would love to highlight and sort of talk a little bit more about is this idea of the grief coming in waves... Because I know, like in a different context, like when you have any kind of trauma that you're dealing with… the healing journey is sort of like, it's up and down… you know, sometimes you're doing better, and sometimes you're not doing...

HAFSAH: ..absolutely...

SAMIA: ..so good. And I think one of the lessons that I've learned about that is, you know when it seems like, Oh, I'm in a dip again, and not doing so well... Like sometimes it's old stuff coming up that you have not been able to deal with and properly let go of. And so it comes up again, when you're perhaps, you know… like as another chance, another opportunity for you to work through it again this time... But also another reason why you can experience a dip is sort of like because you dealt with and healed a certain aspect of how that trauma impacted you. But trauma impacts you and so… like, the impact of trauma is so complex... You know, it's like so layered that maybe the reason you're going in a dip right now is because there's now this other layer that you didn't deal with before or weren't able to deal with before that now here's another opportunity to deal with. So it's not necessarily a bad thing that you are, you know, going through this sense of up and down... it's just really like you were saying, part of the healing journey.

HAFSAH: It's absolutely a process and there are stages... and I remember quite early on, I mean, there's many stages to grief…. And I would say that although they say there's five stages to grief, and there's theories around it, I would say it's individual to each person. And I know… especially when you lose someone suddenly without expectation, without warning... it feels unreal for a very very, very long time... The denial stage was quite long of myself and even, even 10 months on sometimes it's still like you know I catch my breath and I’m like, "Really? That happened? like, Subhan Allah (Glory be to God)"... You know but I found that that was really hard when that would come up when suddenly the reality kind of… the reality comes in… whether it's through conversation, or just a thought that comes up, an impulse that comes up, or a realization that comes up, or something that you would normally do together... And I'm all by myself, you know, and that's not there... when those thoughts would hit, that's really some of the biggest moments where I would spiral down. And so the way I would eventually handle that, and handle it today, is the moment that happens… and that unrealness comes in, I immediately say something that we say in Islam, "Inna Lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un." And which means… to Allah we belong, and to Him is our return… Because immediately it grounds me in the context of my faith... The understanding that we're here temporary… temporarily… we're just passing through and we are belongings to our God...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HAFSAH: And He... we came from Him, and we go back to Him... And that's the reality of life. My husband has just led the way… we're all following him, we're all going in the same direction… we don't know when our souls will be taken. But all of us will taste death, as we are told… as we know... So, you know, immediately it just grounds my heart, it just... and I got a lot, a lot of strength from what we're told in the Quran, and what we're told in our prophetic tradition... The stories that are there about people in our history, prophets who are tested. You know, one such example is Moses… when his mother released him into the Nile… And there it talks about her pain and her anguish at the loss of her, you know, losing her son… for her, essentially, she was inspired to, you know, send him onto the river… and but did she… you know, imagine a mother putting her child into the river, and just releasing… and she felt her heart was like, you know, ripped in two… and God talks about how He bound her heart together, tied it back together... So when I would read stories like this, I would make supplications to God saying… God tie my heart together… you know, and one of God's names, one of the names that He calls… because he has revealed names and attributes about Himself... One of his names is AL-QAWIYY, The Most Strong… and I used to find that so like… when I would, especially in the early stages, when it hits, it's so, it's so deep, it's so painful… it literally felt like a physical pain in my gut… a physical pain in my gut that, you know… how am I going to like come out this… And holding on to that rope and saying to God, al-Qawiyy... means Oh, the one who is most strong, give me strength from your strength, give me strength from your strength… And one handhold at a time, I would climb my way back up. And it would just take me back to a place where I could function again. And I could, you know... And so there was a lot of strength that I drew from my faith, that without which, I just… I don't know where I'd be...

SAMIA: Indeed... indeed… Yeah, yeah… I mean, for sure I agree with you that the way we experience grief, the way we go through our healing journey… there are some aspects to it that are very individual to us, you know because we are different people. And so we respond, respond in different ways... And yet there are certain things that, you know, just because we are human, that we share… so certain… like this beautiful lifeline that we have in the context of the healing process of our faith and the beautiful lifeline of being able to tap into… find something good to be grateful for... These are principles that I think no matter who you are, you can... if you're aware of them, then you can reach towards them in your own… at your own pace and in your own good time… but you can reach towards these to help you on your healing journey...

HAFSAH: Yeah, yeah. And I would also say, you know… staying connected to yourself, and what your needs are… being present to your needs and allowing it to be so... So there were days, because I think, you know, especially in our Islamic tradition, I know the wife has given four months of solitude and time to… four months and 10 days… the recommendation is, you know, three days of grief, and then there is an encouragement to move forward... not move on, I don't say move on… because I don't think you can move on... I think you move forward… you learn to adapt to life around this. But you know, even post the grieving stage, there's still moments where your body will speak to you... and it will say… like there were many moments where I just knew… something I craved, especially in the early stages was solitude... just “ḵalwa”, solitude… just to be alone with God, just to be alone with God, and just you know… I didn't have it actually in the first month because, I mean, I have an incredible, you know, mashallah (by God’s will) community and people. And that helped, definitely that helped, because it gave supportive you know… structures for the kids and sort of support for myself… But at some point it just became too much and you know, it felt overwhelming… anxiety started kicking in… and then I knew... I have to give myself some time out. And I did that. And that's what my body needed... And there are some days where you have proactivity and then you have that big dip. And on those days, I just give my... myself permission to be with the down feelings... And just, if I need to take the day off, if I need to go out for a big long walk, meet with someone… just give myself what it needs to refresh, to recharge, to rejuvenate… to just you know… whatever it needs to console, to you know, to soothe... and then… without judgment...

SAMIA: ...hmmm...

HAFSAH: ...without the judgment. And I think that's a big thing because there was a level… there was at one point of frustration of why am I still feeling like this? Why am I... why am I able to just do this one. And I released all of that. And I said, you know what, this is my companion right now... the sadness and the grief, and when it shows up, I'll be with it. That's okay... And I will do whatever I need to do, and then inject myself back into routine and life again.

SAMIA: Yeah...

HAFSAH: That was a big healing part as well...

SAMIA: Oh... oh, my gosh... Yes… it's like, I think that's one of actually the most important things for us to understand about our feelings and why we have them is that… whatever feeling we're having... And in this context, we're talking about the harder feelings that we can have... But really... I… the way I see it, their role is to actually be alerting us to the fact that there's something that we're needing, and we're not receiving that. And so then the feeling comes up to be like a warning bell, you know, as it were, to let us know, hey, there's something you're needing, and you don't have it yet... Do something about this...

HAFSAH: And it's... and it's dangerous not to give your body what it needs. Because I remember when I wasn't giving myself that solitude, that timeout, I started to get panic attacks which is not something that I've ever experienced in my life before... But it's the body's way of coping, it is the body's way of fighting back and rebelling and saying, "Hey, this is not cool." You know, there are signals that it sends. And if we're not listening to the signals, then it will scream... It will be like alarm bells firing off. And that was my alarm bell... And one of… at one point, one of my kids saw it, and they got sort of… they’d just lost a parent and then to see, you know, their mother go…. that's when I said enough is enough... No way… I have to listen to my body and what it's saying. And I have to do timeout. And we had to put a hard stop on just you know seeing people and just give ourselves the time, for that moment what we needed...

SAMIA: Yes. Yes. And that I yeah... it can be tricky sometimes for us to recognize what it is that we're really needing… because there's a lot of times you know, conventional wisdom that... or people you know, I mean, they're coming from is a really good place to try and help you… And they are trying to help you from the best they can… from their perspective… from their knowledge…. But as you were sharing, and we were saying earlier, for each one of us, in some ways, our journey for healing and coping, it's going to be different... So for some people, they need that constant companionship and activity, and to be around people as part of what they need to deal and cope with their grief... or you know… and, and probably all of us need it for some period of time. But there's some of us for sure, who also need that time of solitude as part of our healing and coping... And I know that that has been true for me as well, that you know... I'm the kind of person where… I mean, I love and appreciate the people in my life and the support that I am able to receive from them... And usually, it's not enough… I need quiet time with just me and my Lord...

HAFSAH: It takes courage to do that Samia, because the temptation is to get… because it's painful... It's painful to sit in stillness, to be present to the emotions, to give it some airspace… We can get very used to stuffing it down and suppressing it, and then just distract ourselves. And I see this time and time with a lot of my clients… they distract themselves… they go into that numming space, because this is too hard... And that's, you know, initially, that might be what needs to happen to cope, to… until the feelings settle a bit for us to do the processing. But if we don't do the processing, and we don't create some stillness, and we don't address it... then that's not actually going to help us in the long run. Because those suppressed emotions, they… they're like an engine that's slowly churning away and they start to come out, they leak out in different ways... And we carry all of that around with us, and it gets heavier and heavier…. So at some point, at some point, we will need to create those moments of stillness, connect with someone that can help...

SAMIA: Yeah...

HAFSAH: And work through and process… and that journey looks different to everyone...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HAFSAH: ..but in whatever way that it actually serves the individual and offers release, then it's important to do it...

SAMIA: Yes. You know, what you're sharing makes me realize that I think one of the reasons why I tend to crave solitude as part of my healing process is because… again, it's like, the people who are around me, are trying to help me...

HAFSAH: Yeah…

SAMIA: ...with dealing with whatever it is that I may be dealing with... It's just that they have different ideas, and they have different strategies… and you're just people and I think, in general, in our culture… we are thought to be always sort of, in this Doer mode, you know… you need to be doing something to solve a problem or help yourself with whatever, whatever the issue is… and I'm realizing more and more now that a lot of times the solution is not us doing more... But what is really needed is that letting go... that we talked about earlier...

HAFSAH: Yeah...

SAMIA: Yeah... yeah…

HAFSAH: It's that, you know, we tend to go external focus to fix things… So let me do this... Let me, let me get busy with this project... Let me take on this so than I don't really have to do the work that I need to do… but what we need to do...

SAMIA: …it is not always the external focus... I mean, I agree with you, that is oftentimes what's going on… but also sometimes what I'm realizing is that we take on the responsibility… like even as people of faith, I think sometimes consciously or unconsciously, that we take on the responsibility of fixing our problems. And the fact is that there are problems we cannot fix... they're beyond our capacity.... And I think when it comes to healing aspects… certain aspects of healing from trauma, this is true that there are certain aspects of healing from trauma that you cannot heal yourself, that you cannot fix yourself in certain ways... no matter how much you try, you know… And the only thing that can really work is letting go of that responsibility... Like, you know, and being like, "God please, take care of this for me, because I can't." It's just like, I know for me, the reason that I took on that responsibility, and I held on to it, and I refused to let go, and I suffered as a consequence… was because I was scared, I was so scared... my faith was not as deep you know... yeah…

HAFSAH: We're looking for solutions. We're looking for solutions outside of actually the source that can really help us...

SAMIA: Yes...

HAFSAH: And we'll never find it... It's like looking in empty buckets, because nothing's gonna fill that void... except that context that faith gives us, except that ‘tawwaqqul’, or that trust in God… and I would say also being brave enough to bring an internal focus...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HAFSAH: When ready... I mean, I know for me, it took a long time before I could access grief counseling, I wasn't ready before. You know and so when you're ready to do some of that work, bring in that… rather than looking out externally, you're tapping into your soul, and you're doing some of that soul work...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HAFSAH: Some of that, you know, understanding what is it that I'm experiencing, how am I looking at it... Is there another way that I need to look at it... Is there another way that I need to hold on to this… Like, I know one of the things I think in the beginning is I wasn't giving myself permission to grieve… I was feeling like I had to be stoic, I had to be strong… I had to be this... I have kids, I need to be tough… there was so much control being exercised there. But I'm not able to control that. And I wasn't given a release or an outlet. So exactly what you said… giving myself permission to grieve just offered that release… and then taking all of that, all of that and giving it to God and saying, "God, help me with this. I'm entrusting all of this with you. And I know that you will respond to it..." God says… call on Me and I will respond... so having a lot of faith that when I turned to God, and I'm supplicating to God, He is responding. He is responding...

SAMIA: Yes... You know for me this brings up the distinction between you know, having an intellectual understanding about something and really feeling that belief or that idea... like really, really feeling and experiencing the reality of that idea. It's like… at an intellectual level, you know, we have learned and known, perhaps from when we were little kids… intellectually we learn these concepts of… God is compassionate, God is merciful... God is… you know… there to help us with everything… But it's only when we go through these really, really difficult times, that belief gets tested and deepened… or not, you know, or not… but it's like when you're in that moment of trauma... in that moment of deep grief, then, you know, it's like, intellectually, you have an idea… but are you in that moment really able to feel that presence of God as The Compassionate and The Helper and you know, all of that… And, yes, sometimes, we are not able to feel that right away. And I think for me, that's part of where I need the stillness before I can actually feel it… 

HAFSAH: You know, I think you've touched upon something so profound and deep and relevant… that it's the journey from here to here... When we're looking for a healing, and we're looking for long-term strength to move forward and that release… we intellectualize, we kind of tend to live up here… And we kind of cut off from down here... But all the emotions, all the beliefs, all the pain, all the... you know, all of that is locked in the body. And until we drop… learn to drop from here to our body… and it takes courage really, it does... but it's, it's worth the journey. Because when we do and we process, and we go from here to here, and we allow the body to release… and in every part of us every part… from the feet, you know, to the, to the arms.... and that is a process... So people may be wondering, well, how do you do that?

SAMIA: Yeah...

HAFSAH: It's really, through, you know, stillness, faith, working with someone, learning to read the signals your body gives, getting in touch with our soul. And, you know, understanding what's, what's my heart? What's my soul? What's, what's my inner wisdom? What's the core of my being expressing to me? What's the wholeness of my body saying to me... not just here… because our thinking mind can take us in all different directions… really good things, and not great things at all, right... And we can just, you know, go… go kind of crazy with our thoughts and start ruminating on things and/or thinking we're okay… but actually, our body is responding in very, very different ways. And that kind of disconnect creates a lot of difficulty...

SAMIA: Yeah, oh, my gosh... I really, really deeply believe this now, that ultimately, any healing we experience comes from our heart, it really does. And our mind, it's there, it's doing its best to figure things out and help us. But really, it's not its area of expertise. So it's just not able to help us in the best ways with the healing process. And really, the best guide is our heart. And because it's our heart that connects us to… in the most direct way… to the guidance, the spiritual guidance…

HAFSAH: I think it's, you know, I think it works in tandem... So I think, you know, being able to process the emotions, being able to connect with them as a semantic, you know, bodily experience… but then the process and the unpacking and working through it, that's a lot of, you know, connecting the mind, then the mind and body... And working together in unison, you know, with our intuition, with our heart, with our spirituality, with our soul, with our mind… and using all the facilities that God has given us...

SAMIA: Yes...

HAFSAH: To work together to process and move forward. That's really when we can do that in a way that feels we're in alignment.

SAMIA: Yes.

HAFSAH: And we're connected within and externally to the things that are meaningful and purposeful to us...

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed... That's an excellent point. Because ultimately, we are… everything's interconnected, you know, within us… like my heart is not something completely separate and independent of my mind and/or my body... It's like, we are ultimately one being...

HAFSAH: Yeah...

SAMIA: Yes. So, oh, my gosh... I want to just keep talking with you. And we have to start wrapping up... One last question that I want to ask you is that… for people who are grieving and needing some help and support with their healing process, is this something that you're able to help people with now?

HAFSAH: I would recommend for someone who's grieving… and it depends on the level of grief and what the grief is... So if it's the experience of losing a loved one, if it's the loss of life, if it's very deep, a very deep calamity that has happened and there's there's real raw emotions... I would say when you're ready, reach out to someone who is an expert in grief therapy or grief counseling… And definitely it's important to work with someone who will be able to work with you on that deeper level… because it may be therapy, it may be counseling… It may be, you know, different, various treatments that's required... I do coaching. So it's really when a person is ready and able to move forward… Maybe they're a bit further along and maybe there's some elements that they haven't, you know, worked through in terms of grief… we do some work there… but they're in a position where they're able to move forward. And I think that's the key distinction for me… If somebody came to like, if I… if someone experienced what I experienced and came to me, I wouldn't… I would absolutely signpost them to someone who is... this is their specialty… and you know, they would be in, they'd be in better service going in to somebody who could deal on that level with them...

SAMIA: Thank you for clarifying… so my follow-up question is… can you talk just a little bit more about what you have coming up… where you are most excited about… about helping people… like, what people come to you for that you are really happy and excited about...

HAFSAH: Thank you so much... So I do confidence coaching… well, I still do it, but that was my primary focus… helping people find faith-based courage to take action in the different areas of their life… so whether it's marriage, whether it's relationships, children, parenting, work, career… you know, it's kind of across the spectrum… I'd say primarily, it was the work with themselves, the relationship with themselves… finding the truest, most core essence of who they are, and connecting from that place, place of their soul, you know… and really making their life, building their life, coming from that place... After what happened with my husband and the sequence of events thereafter, my... I still do that work… but my focus has shifted. I think, for me, through that process, the world was unveiled in a way that I didn't appreciate before. And there's a sense of urgency now for me to share some of the truths that have been… become very, very apparent to me from my faith perspective... The idea that we are on this earth very temporarily… I think we get very quickly sucked into this resident mindset, that we're here forever, this is our home. And then we make decisions… we sort of make choices and create lifestyles around that attitude and approach to life… which, you know, from, again, from a faith perspective doesn't serve the next life which we consider our eternal home... And the place that we need to be building assets for whilst still, of course, making a life for ourselves here… aiming high, you know, working towards the things that we want to enjoy, the comforts that God has put for us in this world… but not in a way that disconnects from the next world... So with that being said, I felt inspired to open up an academy called the Awakened Hearts Academy... And I've one of the… one of the prophetic sayings that came up very early on in my process after things that happened, you know, with what happened… was this prophetic saying where the Prophet, our Prophet, went to a youngster, and he gave him a very short but very potent advice... He said, "Live in this world, as though you are a stranger or a traveler." And it really got me thinking… because this, what we're talking about is an attitude… is an approach to life... If I put myself into the shoes of a traveler, I'm just traveling through… I'm just passing through… that now informs my whole approach to things. As a traveler, do we build and build and build? As a traveler do we try to accumulate so many things? Or are we enjoying the sights and sounds as we travel, but the focus is still on the destination...

SAMIA: Yes.

HAFSAH: So with that being said, I've created a program called the travelers program, which will be offered on the Awakened Hearts Academy. I believe we're gonna post links with this. So if anyone is interested, they can click on the links. It does go live on the fourth of February... And it’s… it's a six-week program called the travelers that is helping us adopt this approach and attitude to live... How do I live in this world like a traveler, but not live in a monk-like existence where I'm disconnected from life… because I think there's a big misunderstanding around that… that I have to abandon life, I have to live in poverty... And this is not what the prescription is at all. It's actually yes, build a life here, enjoy the comforts, but whilst building your assets in the next… for the next life, and keeping that very much in mind. So that's really where my focus has shifted to. And I feel very purposeful around, you know, helping myself first and foremost, and others, adopt this traveler's mindset...

SAMIA: I love it... I love it. I think, you know, that is a really, really practical approach to understanding and living out our spiritual faith and just living out our spirituality, or living… leading our life from that spiritual orientation... I just absolutely love it...

HAFSAH: Absolutely... it's an orientation, you said that it's an orientation… it orient us towards God, towards the eventual home. And, you know, we look at this world differently… not that we can't enjoy this world, but we look at that enjoyment differently. We feel a sense of healthy detachment.

SAMIA: Yeah...

HAFSAH: ..of our own way. And honestly, it's liberating. It's actually liberating, in many ways… because I think a lot of the stress and pain comes from our attachments to this world and the things we need to happen, and the things we feel we should have and what should happen... But the moment you adopt this mindset, that we're traveling to… there's a healthy level of attachment to the right things.

SAMIA: Yes. Oh my gosh. So, sister Hafsah, you're going to have to come back and tell me more about that...

HAFSAH: Thank you.

SAMIA: That is a whole other you know, deep, deep discussion that you can get into... And I will look forward to that. So just for right now, we are going to go ahead and wrap up… and yes to all of our listeners… please make sure you check out the show notes so you can connect with the sister Hafsah… Check out this new fabulous new course that she has coming out or, you know, the other things that she has to offer… and connect with her… I really, really hope you do… And until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy… :)