SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet!Welcome again to our show... And I know you'll be so excited and happy of joining us today because we have a very special guest... It's Hannah Chapman who is a Wealth Advisor... Welcome Hannah... 

HANNAH: Hello... thank you so much for having me on the show... I'm so excited to be here and to talk with you and your audience about making building wealth and building a business joyful and easy and how we get into the flow...

SAMIA: Yes! Oh my gosh, building wealth... I love that… and doing it in a way that's joyful and more easy... I love that even more. So tell us more about who you are and what you do...

HANNAH: Well as you mentioned, I am a wealth advisor… which can you know, even just saying that sometimes people can recoil a little bit, right... Like there's this energy around money and wealth that we pull back and we pull in, you know… no matter what you have or you know in your business what you're making what's in your personal accounts... truly people tend to feel like there's not enough, they're not doing a good job, they haven't you know saved enough, they're doing the wrong things… there is all of this shame and guilt that we hold around money all the time. It doesn't… seriously doesn't matter how much is there, which is just so interesting... So I say all of that to kind of build into you know what I truly feel that I do, which is to help visionary entrepreneurs to really empower them to start taking control of their income and to start seeing their financial picture holistically so that they can make decisions from a place of power and a place of education and a place of understanding that will actually get them to the goals that they want to achieve... And we do that by, you know, really painting out the whole picture, building the whole puzzle... And then once we know where you're at and where you want to go in life and in business... that's when we can start to look at your investments, and start to put all of the strategies and implementation in place, you know… to do the numbers and make them work. But it starts with your heart and it starts with your feelings about money... and your feelings about your business and your feelings about, you know, how you're growing... It all starts there… so that we can really manage that… so you can start making decisions that are best for you and your family...

SAMIA: Yeah... that makes a lot of sense to me… to have that bigger picture perspective on what you want... And not just in the narrow sense of oh this is what I want the context of my business, but to put that in perspective bigger picture perspective of your whole life and how everything will fit together... That makes a lot of sense.

HANNAH: Yes... yes. And what I've found... I've been in this industry, in the financial industry, financial planning specifically, since 2007... So 15 years… and I was in banking before that... So I've been in this space for a long time… And truly there has not been a movement until, I feel like recently… I feel like recently… that we have really begun to embrace comprehensive planning… that we're planning… we are… I don't want to say planning… we're creating or creating a wealth strategy that will do what you want to do… Because everyone is so different... And that's the biggest thing to me, and the biggest difference that I saw myself, you know, shifting away from the big franchises that I worked for before as, you know, one advisor of many, and moving out onto my own, being independent... One of the biggest things was that it was all about just the assets... how much money do you have? How do we grow it? How do we make the numbers bigger? Right... How do we just keep growing money and not losing money... And all that matters is what number you have... 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

HANNAH: And so instead... I mean like every week you can have two clients who have the exact same numbers exact same charts and graphs, and depending on what each of those people wants to do in their life... one could be elated and one could be terrified with the same information, right...

SAMIA: Yes... And you also made me think about the values aspect… because for example the first time I connected with my wealth advisor… you know, because I'm you know what has been described… you know there's these different tests and so forth to figure out what kind of money personality you have and what kind of a relationship you tend to have with money... And I'm a money monk which means, you know, like for me the values and ethics that I live by are very, very central and extremely important to how I do everything in my life, including how I make my money, and how I spend my money, and how I’m going to save my money etc... And one of the reasons I chose to work with the advisor that I finally ended up with was because she was willing to have that conversation... And she actually had created that space and systems where my values and my ethics could be taken into consideration in a systematic way and be like... Okay we're going to invest your funds over here and not over here because this is going to be in greater alignment with your values and ethics... And a lot of advisors didn't even talk about that or approach that or want to really talk about that when I wanted to talk about that…

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HANNAH: Yeah so that's... so I'm so glad that you brought that up... Because I literally had this experience with a client who… at my old firm where I was like working with an older advisor who was going to retire... So we were working this book of business together so that the clients could get to know me and, you know, it would be a smooth transition... It's was a great idea in theory... And we had a new client, a woman who was in her 60’s, who had never really been in touch with her investments before… and she had the conversation with me about... hey, it's really important to me that I'm not investing in, you know, these different spaces that just don't align with my values... So she wanted what we call ESG Investments in the industry... So just environmentally, socially conscious investing, right... And when I heard her say that, I said... Absolutely... like there are so many options, of course we can make that happen. And so I communicated that to the other advisor and he immediately shut it down... Like why would you do that… there's no, you know… the returns aren't the same… you can't do it… which is not true, by the way, anymore... Maybe it was 20 years ago… it's not true anymore… But just the way he shut down the conversation so quickly...

SAMIA: Yeah... 

HANNAH: ...was amazing really to me... I was like, wow, you're not even gonna… you're not even gonna talk to me about it, and let alone the client… you're just gonna like pretend that she didn't say that... Like I could not believe that that was the case. And yet, you know, like you're saying, your experience was like, yeah, so many people wouldn't talk to you about that, right... So I mean it really is... There's a big kind of cloud over this industry of, you know, this advisor knows best, right... Don't question me. I know what's best... You know, you'll just make the decisions that I say are good for you… And what that turns into… what I experienced and what I saw in my clients was that women especially... women especially felt like they couldn't even ask questions, right... They couldn't even say what mattered to them... and get a clear answer without being like… Oh aren't you so cute… I'm going to listen to you for four seconds… I'm going to turn and talk to your husband...

SAMIA: That's right. Oh my gosh... I remember, I went to several meetings because you know this was like oh my gosh maybe 20 years ago... when we first started exploring you know working with Wealth Advisors and so forth... So at that time I was still in my early 20s and so I wasn't going there alone, I was going with my dad… And just like you said people kept looking at my dad you know and talking to him... And even when I showed that I had some knowledge and I knew what I was talking about… I was fresh out of having taken some classes in college and so forth about financial literacy and investing and forth… They were so surprised... Oh...

HANNAH: Right. And yet still... it's still it's like alright we're gonna talk to the you know the dad in the room, like... ah, that's not the person we need to be talking to right now. Or even if it's…if it's in a couple, you know, like, both of those people have different thoughts and opinions and feelings that need to be held and listened to and respected as their own, you know, sovereign selves... And that for me… that was one of the biggest value misalignments that you know I realized that that was not going to change in a way that was going to work for me in that practice... That was one of the reasons I had to leave… and it gets straight to, you know, what was my desire... What was… what did I desire to create in the world and how did I want to feel while I was doing that... 

SAMIA: Yes... yes because... 

HANNAH: And so like yeah a lot of my experience around that was that, you know, as it was feeling more and more heavy… as I was you know like… I was bringing… I was doing everything that all, you know… I had a wonderful mentor actually who was also you know at the same… in the same firm at a different location... So she was separate from my group which was great... But she was still you know like an amazing woman advisor… like leading a huge practice and just such a wonderful woman... And you know so she was mentoring me in like, okay, how to speak up for myself… hey, this you know… this part of your contract doesn't say anything about how you're going to be able to build and like have equity in your own work… and you know all of these things… like, so we were you know, I would be having conversations with my partners at my firm and Kathy's voice would be in my head… like I got to speak up for myself because she's gonna ask me about it, right... So it was that push that I needed, that support that I needed to speak up for myself over and over again… And at the same time the more I spoke up, the more of a problem child I guess you know is kind of what how I started feeling... And it started to turn into just huge amounts of anxiety and like depression, anxiety… Like, there were times where I was feeling like my family and my workplace would be better off without me, literally... And that was like… just it… I knew it... Like when I was driving to work and I would be making there was one place where I'd make the left turn every single day… and it happened a couple of days in a row... I mean more than that… but when it started to be a couple of days in a row of like you know if someone just you know sideswiped me and I was gone and they weren't hurt and it was just like… everything would be easier... And the piece inside of me… my inner knowing, my inner genius, my inner guidance, my higher self… whatever we want to call it… that part of me was still strong enough to scream basically, like, this is not you… this is not okay... 

SAMIA: Yes... Oh my gosh... 

HANNAH: ...it was so important... It was so important... And like I'm just I'm so thankful truly that piece of me… where other people are saying like, "You can't do this job... you can't do this job"... that inner piece said, "No! You are amazing... you build relationships with people like nobody else, you know what you're doing, you are good at this… you are meant to be in this place... Like, be like, keep, keep going, keep going”... And the feeling… you know, so my desire at first was to stay alive... 

SAMIA: Yeah... 

HANNAH: Like as sad as that is, right... Like my first desire was to like, okay, this is not good… we need to, we need to find a way to shift you know how I'm feeling on a daily basis... And so I started taking steps in that direction... And then my desire I realized was to work with business owners and to help entrepreneurs… And that was where you know, that's where I feel like I just explode with like all the ideas and all the value and all the ways that we can build together. That's where I get so lit up and I knew it way back then... And yet I was still like not being supported in that either… with the partners you know… with the partners like just work with executives and work with, you know, the people that just come to you, you know… like you don't get to pick your niche… this is one of the things they said… you don't get to pick your niche, it kind of finds you… and you just… it's like… I don't think that's true... I don't think that you just like accept whatever's coming at you and then that's your business, right... That's not how I want to do that… And I wanted to really empower women in a big way to help them feel confident in their financial decision-making and to like understand that hey, wealth is for you, prosperity is for you on your terms... And that like we can do this… we can… you can build wealth just like anybody else, right... So all of these pieces were really important to me. And it was you know meeting after meeting have against standing up for myself and like asking questions of how would I be… how can I be a partner... How can I you know have a voice in the direction of the practice… all of those things... And so when it finally became clear that that was not going to happen where I was at… that's when the result hit that like okay, so we need to do this on our own… we… I need to do this on my own... But it was truly like following those pieces of desire all the time what is it that would feel good to me to build… And so you know through to cut that story a little bit shorter, I did… I took all the steps I needed to do to launch my own firm... And I did that in January of 2021… And then… and that was only the first step, right... Like I had like... it's like I had clawed my way back up to the surface of like okay, now we can start fresh... 

SAMIA: Yes. 

HANNAH: And that's what it felt like... And so from there… all of the time you know from January 29th when I launched X² Wealth Planning until today in July of 2022... I have had the opportunity to build something that feels amazing… and work with clients that I adore… Like, I love them so much… I love my clients. I love seeing them make changes in the world. I love hearing what it is that matters to them and showing them how we can get there... Financially, it's just… it's the best thing that I could possibly imagine doing... And now I get like… I get to do it on my terms... So yeah, that's a little bit of my story there… following my own desire.

SAMIA: Ah… your story thank you for sharing it... because it highlighted so many amazing aspects of what it really takes to build wealth with joy and ease... Because I mean you were having those experiences in the context of doing the work that you were doing as an advisor at that firm, and then later of course starting on your own… But I could see so many parallels as a client, you know, where… if I'm not allowed to question, if I'm not allowed to choose my investments, and how I want my money managed and so forth… then that takes for me so much of the joy out... I mean theoretically, in some ways, it might make things more easier… in the sense that if I don't have to deal with and think for myself, and I just let someone else take… it might seem at one level easier… But really, in so far as that makes me feel horrible... because I'm compromising… I feel like I'm compromising my ethics, my values, etc... I mean, that's not really easy… that's a different kind of problem and difficulty that I land myself in... And then, you know, the other thing that you highlighted so beautifully is that… these systems are set up in a way where… I see this as a really serious social justice issue… where you know, the people who question or who try to create any kind of change or do anything differently than how the system is set up... we're made to feel like there's something wrong with us... And that has such a hugely bad impact on one's mental health and one’s sense of empowerment and ability to help, you know, help yourself... It's just so disempowering… and that you know like literally like you were saying it can make you think there's something wrong with you… like you are the one who is going crazy... And so the but that's not it… I mean just... it like you know in a very different context if I might give a different example from my work... I had… one of my very first clients that I was working with when I first started my happiness coaching practice... I connected with her at this just random social gathering that we were at, and I just told her I'm a Happiness Expert, I help people learn how to be happy… And she was like… I need to learn how to be happy. I want to learn how to be happy. Will you work with me? I was like… absolutely. But very, very soon after I started working with her, I had all of these, like, red flags that I could see and alarm bells going off in my mind… It's like her problem isn't that she doesn't know how to be happy or that she doesn't have good skills with managing her mood and so forth... Her problem… and very soon I got verification of it because she started explicitly sharing with me… was that… her problem was that she was actually in an abusive relationship... So it was like, you know… and as soon as I had verification of that, I knew that the work… that if I was going to continue to work with her, it couldn't focus on teaching her these, you know, how to be happy skills that I work on with most of my other clients… Because her problem wasn't not knowing how to be happy... her problem was being stuck in an abusive relationship. So you have to first resolve that root cause… fix that unhealthy environment in whatever ways you can... And only then… yes, can you know be like… okay, you know, by practicing smiling and by doing this practice or that practice you can improve your well-being and you can improve your mood... But all of that has to come later... First you have to fix the root cause... And so like that is something your story so beautifully demonstrated to me... I'm so glad that you had that realization for yourself.

HANNAH: Yes, and that... what that story, that you just shared is heartbreaking... and at the same time so relatable, right. Yeah, because it's not kind of like I shared in my story… like when I launched my firm it felt like I had clogged up back to ground level, right… like, I was so deeply depressed and was taking anxiety medication to get through meetings with people that made me feel bad… and like my whole body was reacting, right... And that yes, smiling... And like… just do the work… just smile… just… like, no, no, no, no… that's putting a band-aid on like a gaping head wound. 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

HANNAH: And that's how it felt... And so to understand and to listen... So like if that… at the same time if that… if that woman hadn't come to you...

SAMIA: Yes...

HANNAH: ...and started sharing vulnerably with you... She… I mean, like, I'm interested to know if she even knew that she was in… or like realized the how much, you know, impact that relationship was having on her... sometimes we don't see it until we reach out…

SAMIA: That's right. That's right... It's like… I mean of course she knew she was unhappy... She knew that. But she never… like, it… and I see this again and again in my work where people don't put two and two together... Like, if you saw that happening to someone else you might immediately be like... Oh it's the relationship that's the problem… but when you're in it yourself, you know, it's just part of the nature of being caught up in an abusive relationship… where it just sort of… just ruins your entire perspective and your objectivity and so forth... And so you're not able to see what's happening to yourself... And so she like never used… even after we started talking… and I really started… trying to educate her about the nature of abuse and abusive relationships to help her see that that's actually what she was caught into... For a long time I didn't even use the word abuse with her… because it wasn't a word that she used herself… and she wasn't ready to accept that… and she wasn't ready to see what was going on with her in that context... And I think… luckily for her, and luckily for me, the reason that I was able to see what was happening with her so quickly and so clearly, is because I actually have training and a background in working with survivors of abuse... I have worked for four years as a hotline crisis counselor on a sexual assault and domestic violence hotline... And so having spoken to literally hundreds maybe even 1000s of people going through, you know, these forms of abusive relationships… I was immediately… was able to pick up on the signs… And I had the training for, you know, how to speak to her and, you know, sort of gradually bring her to that point of realization and acceptance of what was actually happening with her… point her to the correct resources... Because it was something… a situation that was way beyond what I could as an individual help her with... So you know, the fact of… you know… so there was like just lots of bad stuff going on in the situation… But thank God you know we were able to resolve this situation and you know in a good way...

HANNAH: And what you know what that sparked in me was the… this feeling... something that I have experienced as well is that there are times when I am drawn to someone for some reason… and you know they… they were placed straight in my path to, you know, to work with on something... Like something that I needed for my growth, for my you know resolution… that I would not… like that's not what I thought I needed, you know... So even with my first mentor Kathy… that was like… I didn't think I needed a mentor to help me realize I had to leave my… leave my company, right… But that was exactly, like, that was the advice that I got, right… like, truly, like, after working with her for quite a while… like that was what we worked at, you know… that… And that's what I needed with my business coach that I work with now... Originally, I hired her because she had built a law firm from scratch... She had been at, you know, big law firms, small firms, medium law firm… then launched her own and then grew that in a very specific niche… and I was like oh, it's so similar, right... Like you built a law firm in a specific niche... That's what I want to do with my financial firm... Like, yes, you're the right person...

SAMIA: Yes.

HANNAH: And guess how much business... I mean like she is still yes absolutely my business strategy coach… but guess how much of our relationship focuses on that... Like 10%... because what she had done really… So my brain, my logic brain saw her and said... Oh yes, I need you to help me with this aspect of what I have… how I want to grow... But energetically, what was actually happening was, you know, she healed from a traumatic childhood... And that's what I needed help with. And it was like… Oh my gosh… like I can't even wrap my mind around because it was not meant to, right... Like it wasn't… that wasn't the decision… that decision was a very heart-based decision, right... Like feeling… feeling that connection… like I need to work with this person... and honoring that and stepping into it.

SAMIA: Yes... oh my gosh… and that brings me to... Like you know, when we're thinking about who is the right person for us to work with… like, in your case, when our listeners are thinking about who's the right wealth advisor for me to work with… like, to know that it's really important to pay attention to, like, being a good match with that person… not just at, like you were saying, at that logical level of… oh they meet the specific criteria of having this degree or that specific credential... but also like… do our hearts align, do our values align... And for I know for a lot of women… it's also like… maybe I need to work with a woman… because men just have a very different experience, you know… They have male privilege in a world that… especially in the context of wealth development, wealth management, wealth creation, it's such a male-dominated area... And men are experiencing a certain level of privilege that sort of blinds them to a lot of struggles that women have to face because they're women, and they don't have that male privilege… And unless a man is very conscious and has consciously worked to raise his consciousness around these struggles and these issues that women face specifically... he's not really able to help us in the best ways...

HANNAH: Yes! Yes and so what that is… because you bring up… I mean, it's… it… the example is so salient to the discussion that it's like... yes I'm so glad you went there because men are taught from the time they are little tiny boys to take risk… to challenge whatever is around them… to compete… to rise to the top, right... And so literally in terms of money that equates to… they are willing to take risk sooner and more of it… because it's encouraged… it's ingrained into them… And it doesn't even get into… you're like we don't have to talk about that… but they're also, you know… like men are promoted based on their potential versus their results, right... Women are judged on their results… men are judged on their potential… And there is some of that at play also… But even more so this… is this, you know, grooming of women from the time we are little girls to be caretakers...

SAMIA: Yeah...

HANNAH: And so the men are groomed to be risk takers and the women are groomed to be caretakers... And so financial risk feels like we are not honoring that inner need to be a caretaker... And so what I have seen over and over and over again is that women will have mountains of cash… mountains of cash… like, we're talking six figures… like a million dollars… like, I have seen so much cash on the sidelines… even women who make you know 50 or 60,000 a year will have 50 or 60,000 of cash on the sidelines... because they… it's that caretaking responsibility, right... They're very worried about investing. This is not all women by any stretch of the imagination… but it's one of those things where if you ignore the trend you ignore the problem... You know if you have gotten through that it is beautiful and amazing… and that's where we want to raise that level of consciousness around prosperity and wealth building and how to take appropriate levels of risk... Because men get on the other side too where they're just like too risky sometimes… like, they won't listen to, you know, a more tempered, you know, perspective either… and they’ll just like, you know, gain and lose, and gain and lose, until they're done with the losing part, right... So I mean the risk factor goes both ways… with the positives and negatives… But it truly does set women back from the time that they are in their… you mentioned being in your 20s and sitting down with the wealth advisor… that's amazing, first of all... So good for you for being in that room in your early 20s… most women don't get that… And most women, by the time they're in their 40s and 50s, they either have some investments… but they've mostly just managed their household...

SAMIA: Yeah...

HANNAH: Or they see that other side of they have tons of cash and almost nothing invested, and they're terrified... And so we have so much work to do societally… in any… and I know not all cultures are the same in this regard… but definitely in western culture we have, you know, this, you know, female supression with money, just overall... and you know that we're not as good at math… we're not as good at numbers in general… and like, that's just… there's no evidence of that...

SAMIA: …stereotype, stereotype...

HANNAH: Right...

SAMIA: I’m better at math than my brother…just putting it out there…

HANNAH: Exactly, you know... I mean but that's another piece you know that we don't recognize to the degree that will allow us to change it, right… or to change the conversation enough… So even just having this discussion and like putting it out into the universe, is really important so that we can continue to talk about it and continue to raise that awareness and that consciousness around wealth and prosperity for equally… for all genders, right... And it's just… it's such an important and impactful piece… Like we can't do the things that we want to do in life and we can't have the impact that we dream of having… whether that's you know for ourselves, for our families, for our communities, for the, you know, the charities and the non-profits and the work that matters to our hearts... If you aren't building wealth, you can't do those things, right... and not at the scale where, you know, where we actually… To make the amount of impact that we actually need to make in the world, we have to… you and I... you know, like us and everyone else on our, you know, on our level here… we need to value ourselves enough... and start building wealth in a way that will be truly impactful… so that we can help raise up all the other boats, right... The rising tide, you know, helps everyone... And we are the ones that are gonna make that biggest difference, I think...

SAMIA: Yeah. And especially those of us who are committed to building up in a socially and environmentally conscious manner… Because I feel like there's lots of people who are just like, okay, I want to make wealth and do good things with it… But what happens… like, this is my money monk self speaking now... Like one of the things that I've seen in the world is that there's so many people doing so many good good things… But because they don't pay attention to other aspects… like, the unintended consequences of certain things that they're doing, that they're not… their point of focus… so things like you know you're like okay I'm gonna save money, I'm gonna invest money, I'm gonna build my wealth and then your intention is to do really, really good things with that wealth… awesome... But if you're not careful about where you invest that money... if it's getting invested and is inadvertently supporting causes that are actually not in alignment with your values… then on the one hand, you know, once you have money in your hand you're putting money in to solve those causes... But on the back end your money is first going to create those problems, or you know, contributing to making those problems worse… So you're actually sort of undermining your own effectiveness in a way... And so like for me it just doesn't make any sense… And so I want to be really as consistent as I possibly can in all the stages and steps of how I both create my wealth and then use my wealth...

HANNAH: I love that... and I especially love that it's becoming so much more of a conversation… the conversation is getting bigger… you know it wouldn't have started if there weren't people who were like adamant about it in the first place, right... Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, like that… like this movement has been growing and I feel like it is expanding a lot more now... In the industry it’s known as… ESG itself stands for… environmentally conscious, socially conscious and governance... like ESG… the governance… G is governance… for you know, investing in a way that is, like you said, building a world that we all want to live in… the non-polluted and where we have clean oceans and clean air and clean water and you know clean energy... like those are important pieces of creating a more sustainable world in general, right… and that's you know… I love that conversation is just growing and expanding... I know like in my own firm where you know the investment strategies that we do… like that's always one of the first filters… like that's okay we're gonna start with that filter… and then we're going to you know go from there... but that's always you know if someone wants very specific… like this is the type of ESG investing that I want... guess what... We can go out and find that. Like that's a hundred percent doable, always… and in like… you can make good returns... So it's not… you're not sacrificing to the point you know… the earlier story with the advisor who was like, no, we're not talking about that... you're not sacrificing your returns... just to… right. It's not a game of thought anymore...

SAMIA: Yes... and why should that be the only criteria for what you invest in any way… or why should that be the most important criteria... I mean that of course I want good returns… that's one of my criteria… but it's not my only criteria. And so it has to be balanced by you know… like, because... okay we're going back to the idea of building wealth with joy and ease. It's like you know if you are creating… if your wealth building is harming the environment… is creating more socioeconomic disparities for people… and creating more social injustice, etc... we're all ultimately, you know… our world is so connected, interconnected… that when we contribute to someone else's suffering it comes back to us directly or indirectly… it comes back to us... I mean, just the situation with COVID for example, where so many people have landed in deeper trouble… are more financially insecure now you know because they lost their jobs or had to cut back on their working hours, etc… And now the crime rates have gone up… and just like in my neighborhood for example... I mean, I've lived in this part of town for at least the last 15 years, maybe more… and we had… I cannot remember even one time when we had a case of like any major, like, incident in terms of robberies or things like that in our neighborhood... If they were happening, maybe they were so few and far in between, like, it wasn't like a thing… it wasn't a matter of concern. And in the last three years, like, every few weeks we're seeing like reports of… this robbery happened, that car got broken into... my… just in my own family, in my own home, you know, our car got broken into… and we had like some… someone come into our backyard and steal some things from our backyard... And I know I'm not the only person in the neighborhood who's you know experiencing these things… it's definitely, you know, we have seen an uptick in crime rates and so forth. And it's like… it's because of this greater environment where people are struggling… So even though I'm doing fine, my family is doing fine, but because my neighbors, you know in a larger sense, you know, they're struggling... So it starts… it's impacting me too...

HANNAH: Yeah, yeah, I can… and that well... that gets straight back to that point of you know creating more, right... More abundance, more prosperity… not just for yourself, but allowing… the more you allow, the more you create wealth and prosperity with that mindset of giving back and of supporting your community in whatever ways that it needs… maybe it is like the food banks need to be better supported… you know the places that you know when someone does lose a job, right… that they have more support in getting  back on their feet… like, whatever it is that your community needs… like when you build wealth and you build true prosperity in that overall bubble of you know giving back... of having you know wealth with a purpose... That's where you know we can help more… and we can create safer, more loving, more...  yeah, just higher consciousness areas for everybody... for all of us. And that… so we didn't talk too much about… well, we did talk about alignment, and we just didn't say the word, right... so that whole process of discovery, alignment and expansion… that discovery of what it is you truly desire… what it is you truly care about… what it is you truly want to see made better in the world… that's all part of that discovery process… And then aligning… it is simply redirecting yourself… all the time constantly asking yourself… and, you know, tapping into that inner guidance, that inner genius… how you… your relationship with your higher power whatever that may be... But consistently tapping into that to ask, you know… am I in alignment… am I making steps towards these goals, right... And so we have two things that we can align… that's our time and our money.

SAMIA: Yeah.

HANNAH: So you're talking a lot about money with the ESG investing… that's aligning your money with what matters to you, right… And that also comes in the form of spending, in the form of saving… you know, whatever you do with the dollars that you're entrusted with...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HANNAH: How can you align those more so that you're spending your money or saving your money or investing your money towards the things that actually matter to you... And then your time… that's the only other thing we have, right, that as you spend your time, are you spending it in aligned ways that will get you to the places you want to go... And when you do that, when you have… when you know what you want, and then you align your time and your money to those, you know, to get you where you want to go... That's where the expansion just naturally happens. You don't have to… you don't have to expand… expansion happens... And then as you expand suddenly new possibilities start to come into your awareness, right… And that's there you know… So that expansion piece… all of a sudden, you know, if we're talking about a business owner and their revenue is expanding and they're like impacting more clients and they're having this beautiful, you know, year of expansion… all of a sudden in their awareness it's like... oh, I probably need to hire an accountant, or I need to hire a, you know, someone who can help me with operations, right... So that's a new… that's a discovery… that's a discovery...

SAMIA: Yes...

HANNAH: ...a new one...

SAMIA: Like a cycle...

HANNAH: Yeah... and then you're like… oh well, if I bring someone on, and now you're paying that person, and now you've expanded what your money is doing… you're now supporting either another contractor or an employee or whatever that looks like… but your money is now being even more of service...

SAMIA: Yeah...

HANNAH: Allows you… not only does it do you know you're being more of service with your money it also allows you to make more money… and you're in the discovery stage you know... now here's a new thing here's a new thing that I desire to do or have or be… and you can align again and do that next thing and just keep expanding… so it does… it turns into this virtuous cycle of growth and expansion and awareness... And that's where I find so much joy... I find so much joy in helping people through that process. Because yeah, when you're moving… and that's where the the fun and easy and the joy and ease come in… is that when you are moving in the direction and you start seeing the things happen that you, you know, if you look back a year ago, or two years ago, or five years ago... and say… holy moly, I am living the thing that I dreamed about… like, all right, well, let's keep going... you know that's exciting… that's you know… that's, that's it... that's how you start to see that all of this… that I'm all the things that I've been desiring and wanting and aligning to are happening… and it feels good… it feels good to see that progress and to see who you're helping in the world...

SAMIA: That's amazing... and you know we have so much more to dig into and so for that I'm going to encourage all of our listeners to make sure you check the show notes... because we're going to be dropping Hannah's links in there. So you can connect with her and learn more from her about how to create wealth with joy and ease and get caught up in this amazing cycle of wealth building that promotes joy and ease... Any last thoughts or last words Hannah...

HANNAH: Hmm... I am just… I'm just so thankful and grateful to be able to speak with you and really connect... I feel like this… even just this conversation feels like it's connecting with so many more people, right… and I feel that… and that the link between you know prosperity and love, right… the way when we use our heart space to help make decisions about where we put our money... like that is so beautiful and it helps the entire world, truly... And I'm just so thankful that we got to talk about it. So thank you...

SAMIA: Me too... thank you again Hannah… and yeah... to all of you who are listening… just again my final reminder… check the show notes, connect with Hannah... and until we connect next time I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy. :)