SAMIA: Hello, Salam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao and Bonjour!

It's so good to be with you today. And I have a very special guest Holly Amarandei, who is a Hypnotherapy Practitioner, Life and Health Coach at Holistic Haven. I'm so excited to have you Holly, welcome.

HOLLY: Thank you, so good to be here.

SAMIA: And please jump right in and tell us more about who you are and what you do.

HOLLY: Okay. Well, I do hypnosis and I am also a health coach. My area of specialty is working with women who want to lose weight, want to get healthier, want to look and feel better, but they are sick of dieting. So they don't want to go on one more diet, don't want to follow one more restrictive thing, don't want to be told what to do… just want to learn to trust their own body and, like, really change the relationship with food. So that's my... I use both hypnosis and coaching with people to teach people how to be more intuitive eaters, more mindful eaters, and just really talk differently to themselves, with that dialogue in their head, to change just their whole outlook on everything, so that everything just kind of falls into place and is easy.

SAMIA: I love that. I love easy. I love fun and I love easy. And I'm so glad that is something that you help people with, that's so amazing. How did you get into this work?

HOLLY: Oh, I've been overweight my whole life. Like, I was a fat child, and I pretty much have dealt with a lot of the things that a lot of women that end up really unhealthy at some point in their life… A lot of... I’m trying to think of the right word... I just… Words from other people when you're young, the things that you're told when you're a child, they can carry with you your whole life, and really affect the way that you see the world and the way that you treat yourself. So I remember being told I was fat and I shouldn't eat that because you'll gain weight. And just that emphasis on how much you're judged by how/what you look like and how much you weigh. And so it just really always impacted my confidence. And I've been on every diet on the planet. I have tried everything, and I can tell you from experience, that nothing works long term if you're trying to restrict, you're doing things that aren't natural. And you make yourself unhealthier really in the end. And I really would... that's not the point of trying to do that stuff. So there is a movement for trying to get away from some of that stuff, and some of the trendier stuff, and you have to look at it from a different angle and realize that companies are out there to make money. Even these ones that say they care about you and that they're going to make you healthy and that you're going to be awesome… their ultimate goal is to make money. So they don't really have your success and your long-term well-being in mind, so…

SAMIA: That's so true, that is so true… like advertising, marketing can be so seriously misleading and just give us false expectations and false hopes. You know… can you tell me a little bit more about the hypnotherapy aspect of your work and how that helps?

HOLLY: What hypnosis really does is, get down to the root of the issue. Because all of our decisions, everything, all the things that we believe about ourselves, are all stored in our subconscious minds. We're not aware of them a lot of the time, we don't understand where these things come from. So sometimes it's a matter of helping people clarify where these beliefs come from, or we change those beliefs from the inside out… kind of is how I view it. Weight loss is a complicated topic. There's a lot of aspects to it, not everybody is overweight for the same reason. Some people have real physical problems that cause you to be more overweight. So sometimes the issue is more just accepting yourself the way that you are and being gentle with yourself. And then just letting go of that stress helps your health aspect in the end. But a lot of times if people have compulsive behavior, like probably maybe nine out of ten people that I work with, either eat too much, eat the wrong things... not wrong things, but eat things that don't get them to their goal or whatever. Or sometimes they have even more compulsive behavior, like eating in the middle of the night, mindlessly eating, where like you'll open a bag of chips and all of a sudden they're gone, you know. And hypnosis can really help with that because it helps make those changes easier for people. It is really hard for somebody who has been eating junk food three times a day for their whole life, to switch to eating salads and things that are really good for themselves and cooking for themselves and really learn to take care of themselves… especially if they have a deep down belief that they don't deserve it or they're a bad person because of being overweight. So it does get complicated, and that's why I combine it with coaching. Because when I talk to people and have patience, we can really get down to the real root of the issue, we go deep… people cry, it's all good -- it's cathartic. But it is really getting down to what is that real belief...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HOLLY: ...why are you doing this? We can try doing something… but if we don't understand why we're doing it, or if we don't believe in what we're doing, or we don't love ourselves enough to treat ourselves wonderfully, then those changes are not going to last, they're going to be temporary.

SAMIA: Yeah, wow, you just raised so many excellent points. One of the first things I heard you say was making the distinction about how not everyone's overweight for the same reason.

HOLLY: Right.

SAMIA: And that's so important to realize, because you... depending on what your specific reason is because of which you are eating in an unhealthy way, or because of which you might be overweight… the solution has to match with that. So that is the important, important thing. And then, other thing that I was wondering about when you were talking is... can you just tell people a little bit more about what hypnotherapy is? In the sense that, I know a lot of people have a lot of misconceptions about it, because we see hypnosis… people getting hypnotized in the movies and stuff...

HOLLY: That’s not how it works!

SAMIA: ..how is that supposed to help me learn how to eat better or lose weight?

HOLLY: A lot of people just, like, see people on the stage where you'll see people on the stage and they'll be acting like dogs or chickens or whatever, and that is really not… That's one form of hypnosis, but that's not the type of hypnosis that I do with people. Just normal clinical hypnosis… it gets you into the state where you accept suggestions more readily. And we are hypnotized every day, like, when you're driving and you're going to a place and suddenly you're there and you don't even remember getting there. That was… that's a form of hypnosis. That mindless eating I was talking about where you're eating the chips and you don't… you're in a state of hypnosis then. You're watching a movie, you're so into it you don't realize that a whole hour and a half has gone by… It is something that we do every day. And a lot of people think that they can't be hypnotized because they might not have been able to be hypnotized at one of those stage shows or whatever. There's different ways of getting people into that state. And I know how to do a couple of different ways, so that even people that think that they can't get into that suggestible state, can do it. It's just that some people need their mind to be occupied instead of relaxed. So yeah, nobody ever does anything they don't want to do. You know, you can... I can never do anything that you don't want. So you're not gonna be programmed. I think that, that's a misconception that people have. And I get people that come in for consultations that want me to reprogram their mind. Like, you're not a computer and I'm not a computer operator, so I can't do that. But it is a natural state, and yeah, it's strange how it works but it does, and it's… People are amazed. Like, I have a little suggestibility test that everybody can do right now when they're watching. See how suggestible you are to going into that state. If you put your hands like this, and you just have your fingers up like this, and look through your fingers… Just imagine that I am putting a really thick, tight, rubber band on your fingers. And I'm gonna put on another one. And it's getting really, really tight… it's tighter… I'm gonna put it on another one… even tighter... Basically your fingers go together, you're not controlling that...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HOLLY: ..unconscious mind coming out, and knowing you…

SAMIA: That's so fun.

HOLLY: People are always amazed. They're like some things that I do to help see how those people's minds work so that I can hypnotize them in a way that's actually going to work for them. I do different types of hypnosis. Weight loss is my specialty, but that's not the only thing I do. I help people quit smoking. I help people remember things from childhood that they might not remember, just to clarify and so that they can move on and let go. So just confidence and...

SAMIA: Yeah

HOLLY: ...anxiety… is huge right now. I've got probably half the people that contact me have some sort of stress/anxiety type of issue.

SAMIA: So you were just saying, you know, if people come to you and they say, “reprogram my mind”. But you're like, “no, you're not a computer, I'm not a computer programmer, I can't do that”... So when you give people suggestions in the state of hypnosis, how lasting is that? Like when you give that suggestion and they accept it in the moment, but how lasting is that impact?

HOLLY: It really depends on the belief they're trying to change, how much they want to change it… And it actually works better, like, when I work with somebody one-on-one… I will record their session so that they have their session to listen back to. I will also provide a recording, like a 10-minute recording, that they can listen to every day. The more you practice going into the state of hypnosis, the better it works for you. So the more you do it, the longer lasting your results are going to be. And some people are just more suggestible than others. Like some people, I can do one session on stopping binge eating, and they will not binge eat ever again. And some people require three or four sessions. It really is very individual, and it just depends on how much you believe that you want... how much you want it really is the deciding factor.

SAMIA: Yeah.

HOLLY: Like, I can't make people stop smoking if they don't want to. So I do… I do a kind of an in-depth intake process with people, because I want people to be successful. I don't want somebody to be disappointed or think that they can't do it. And I'm upfront with people. Like, I think this is gonna… especially like huge issues, like, if you have a hundred pounds to lose, we're probably talking 10 to 12 sessions. So it just depends. If you really want it and if you are in the right state of hypnosis when we're doing it, I think the more that you can get into that state, the longer lasting results are going to be.

SAMIA: Yes, thank you for being so honest and upfront. Because I think part of the problem that a lot of people face is having incorrect expectations, unrealistic expectations, and then, you know, that leads them to feel disappointed and discouraged and all of that. But I loved what you were sharing. And actually it made me think about how, in energy healing work when we talk about similarly that, you know, on the one hand, energy healing, any energy healing modality… the one I practice most is reiki… and theoretically, philosophically, reiki can solve and heal any challenges that you might be dealing with. And again theoretically, philosophically, it can happen in an instant. The healing, the change, can happen in an instant, and it can be lasting forever and ever. But, it all depends on the person who's receiving the healing, how much they open themselves up to it, and how they accept that healing energy, and that healing, like, love… It's actually an experience of being loved. And so how far do you receive that love and allow it to heal, you know. And so only to the extent that you are willing to receive, will you experience the healing. So it sounds like with hypnotherapy, it's a similar kind of thing going on.

HOLLY: Yeah, it's very similar. You have to be open to accepting the suggestions and the suggestions have to be right too. Like, that is why I customize every session. So when I talk to somebody for the first time, we get very specific. I ask a lot of questions, almost to the point where I annoy people because I want to be very specific when I am giving people suggestions, so those suggestions are coming from you.

SAMIA: Yeah.

HOLLY: Their language… if they say, you know, “I don't want to be a fat slob anymore”, I turn that around in a more positive way, the way that they would say it. Like, we actually talk about that before we do this session. Like… What's the opposite of fat slob? What do you want to be? If you're not a fat slob, what are/what do you want to be? And then we use that specific language. So that way they believe it, it comes from them, it's like healing from within, it's kind of a self-healing thing, kind of like reiki... I do reiki too.

SAMIA: Very awesome. And you know one thing that you just mentioned, is also so important… about the positive framing. It's like okay to be like, “okay I don't want this”. But it's also super important to be like “what do you want?"

HOLLY: Oh yeah. Your subconscious mind only hears the thing… Like it doesn't hear the “don't” or “no”. It only hears the word. So if you're saying like, "I am… I feel beautiful, or whatever"... that's not a good example… I think like I... like, smoking people, we don't use that… We don't use the word smoker because even if we're saying we are no longer a smoker, you're still hearing that word...

SAMIA: Yeah.

HOLLY: ...so that's what your subconscious mind is picking up, is that smoker word. So we say, “you are a healthy person, you are somebody with clear lungs, you are somebody that breathes fresh air”... You know those are the positive things, the things that you want. Otherwise your mind is just going to be like: smoker, smoker, smoker… I want to smoke right now. So with food… because you have to eat, it's not one of those things where… like, you can live without smoking but you can't live without eating. So it gets a little bit more complicated when it comes to the food and the weight loss stuff.

SAMIA: Yeah, you know, I find that sometimes it's, like, pretty challenging. Like, you have to really train your brain to think in positive ways. Otherwise it can be really challenging. I remember one of the challenges I had was, I had intense migraines. And when I got a migraine I was like out. I had very low tolerance for migraines. And it, in a lot of… I actually, over time, developed a lot of, like, psychological fear. So even if I thought I might be getting a migraine, it just made me crash. Even if the pain wasn't actually that bad, I was like, no, I can't do anything, I have a migraine...

HOLLY: Oh yeah, thinking… pain, pain, migraine, I have a migraine, I'm gonna be in pain, I'm gonna be out for the whole…

SAMIA: Yes.

HOLLY: Yeah.

SAMIA: And just trying to think about a more positive aspect of, what do I want?... I'm like, I don't want a migraine, I don't want pain, I don't want a migraine. But I couldn't think of what I did want.

HOLLY: Yeah, yeah… The pain aspect is being more positive… Like, that is another use of hypnosis… is working with people with pain. There are some people that specialize in pain relief, or like with cancer patients to make their treatments more tolerable. Or even if it's like an end of life thing, just to make that whole transition time easier. I would cry every day. I couldn't do that type of hypnosis. But it does work with pain. Like, I have chronic back pain. So just using those techniques to relax and to focus on having the absence of pain, really. You don't use the word pain because that's what your brain focuses on. It helps you to not experience it. It's very strange, weird, looks hocus pocus… but it's really the way that our brains are designed. We just don't… a lot of us just don't understand how they really work.

SAMIA: That's true, that's true. And that's the thing… Like, you don't necessarily have to understand exactly how things work. But just if you're willing to give it a try and see if it works. If it works, it works. You know, because sometimes… I know there are people like me who… we tend to be overly… too much in our head. And we want all the information and all the details about how something's going to work, and all that. Because, like for me, in my case, part of the reason why I was so attached with getting all the information first, and show me the proof, and so forth… because it made me feel more in control. And I had, like, huge power and control issues, where I was, like, really scared of not being in control. And so I was like, show me, show me all the data, all the information, all the proof. But that attitude can actually sort of hold you back and prevent you from being able to try out things that are actually going to be really helpful for you, you know.

HOLLY: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, when I work with people they really have to be willing to let go, like, of their control. And I think that, that's why some people have a hard time getting into this, or having it work within one or two sessions, instead of four or five… because they just have a hard time surrendering, just letting go.

SAMIA: So you just mentioned one of my favorite topics… talking about surrendering and letting go. We have been kind of talking about it already, but do you have any other insights or wisdom you would love to share about how we can let go and surrender more and better?

HOLLY: I think that it's something you kind of have to train yourself to do. Like, meditation is kind of like that. I also teach mindfulness meditation. It's one of those things where you let go by paying attention. It's kind of strange, it's kind of the opposite of hypnosis where you just let yourself go into that state. You have to want to, at least part of you has to want to. Trying to think… there's something I was going to tell you… I can't remember... Like, when I work with somebody who has a really hard time letting go, we focus on that relaxation part even more. Like, some people need more of the induction phase… is what it's called. It’s really getting somebody to relax and there's different ways to do it. And different people have different ways that work better for them. So I try out different inductions with people to see what works best for them. Some people, the whole body… I'm sure you've probably done, like, a meditation where they relax your whole body, where you relax from head to toe, you relax every muscle… There’s different… some you tighten it up… Some are just more directive, like… you close your eyes, they're not open, they are shut, they will not open, no matter how hard you try you can't open your eyes… And that works really well for some people. It's kind of like… Well, you can hypnotize me, like, easy. I just am… I am just like that… I'm not, I don't like to be... I like to be in control, but I also love to relax, because it's one of those things where I don’t do it that much. So like, when I can do it, I am just like… relax.

SAMIA: Yes, and it does get easier with practice. Like the more you practice… Now, I've become a lot more suggestive. Like, when we just did the little exercise, I could, like, feel my fingers "ahh...", coming together, yeah.

HOLLY: It's funny to watch that because some people, it’s done, like, right away. I can say one thing and they're like “woop”… And then when someone takes a little bit more time, there's this other test that… it takes a little bit longer to do. But that one, they don't budge on that one. You know that they're what we call analytical, which those people… instead of relaxing your subconscious mind so that you can accept those suggestions, we have to keep your mind busy. And so there's a different way to do an induction, and there's a different way to do the actual session, so that it's more effective for those type of people.

SAMIA: Yeah, that makes sense, because even if you think about meditation as a discipline, there are so many different forms of meditation. Some of… you know, like, people generally only think about, you know, the stereotype of, oh you sit with your eyes closed and maybe focus on your breath, kind of meditation… But there are so many different forms of meditation -- thinking meditations, moving meditations… And some of them are, like, really complex in terms of their… You have, for example… actually, one of my favorite forms of meditation is Islamic or Muslim ritual prayer, that we do every day. And in our form of ritual prayer, which I experience like and practice like a form of meditation... we have thoughts that we have to focus on and then we also have body movements that we're focusing on maintaining, and then on top of that we are also working on cultivating feeling, certain feelings, you know. And so it's like very complex, engaging your mind and your body and your spirit, all in one. So it's like... I mean, it's not what people normally think about with meditation, but it is a very, very awesome form of meditation. And I think for a lot of beginners especially, I find that the more… these more complex forms are actually easier to start out with because you're not used to a more simple point of focus. You have to sort of become more advanced in your ability to focus before you can focus on a more simple point of focus.

HOLLY: Oh yeah, I've been in… or have you seen those like labyrinths, where you walk the labyrinth and you meditate when you do that… A lot of people love that. Like, that is like the first form that they become familiar with because it's fairly simple. You follow the path, you're moving, you're thinking, you're occupying yourself doing things other than just… and I think, it’s like, you're right… I think people do find that a little bit easier sometimes. People think of meditation and hypnosis as being like a "woo-woo” thing... but look what you just mentioned, it’s part of a religion that's been around forever. And all religions use some form of meditation, every single one. So it really is very... it's a practice that's ingrained in the human psyche, so…

SAMIA: Exactly, that's awesome. Okay, we could keep talking about this. But there is another shift I want to create in the conversation a little bit, because earlier on you mentioned something about coaching and intuitive eating. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about that.

HOLLY: Basically we shift away from the diet mentality of following a restrictive plan that doesn't come from something that you do. It's hard because we live in a culture where… actually the whole world is… not just this country, it is pretty much everywhere… Being thin, being perfect is the ideal, where most people can't achieve that. We're surrounded by images of food and beautiful people, and all these things that… people, they don't go together, you know. Like, you see these ads with these dumb people, like these really beautiful skinny girls, eating hamburgers on a car… Like, girls that eat hamburgers on cars don't look like that. It's just such an ideal that people can't live up to. So it's really a more practical way to approach eating. It's really taking time to enjoy what you eat and let go of all of those ideas that certain foods are good, certain foods are bad. Yeah, some are healthier for you and some are not, and there is a component of intuitive eating that's about gentle nutrition. I incorporate a lot of mindful eating practices because I... Some people do genuinely… they need to lose weight. I'm not completely about the, let's reject all things that are going to help you to get healthier. Because we have an epidemic of lots of diseases in this country in particular. So there is a need for people to get healthier. But I think that there are ways to do it that are better. Anything that's temporary is not good. I'm not into all these trendy diets, I'm really not. I'd like people to just eat what they feel like eating and enjoy it. We eat so fast, we eat... we're so busy, we... I eat in my car a lot, that's not good. I've tried to stop doing that. It makes a huge difference. Sometimes I will… I will sit on a curb even if I am, like, in a neighborhood or whatever, and I will eat my food not inside my car. And I will pay attention to what I eat. And you know what? I get full, and I'm not starving two minutes later. We need to pay attention to what we're eating, what we're putting in our body… What does it smell like? What does it feel like in our mouth? What… do we really want to eat this? I'm a big advocate of… if you're starting to eat something and it doesn't taste good, just throw it away, don't eat it.

SAMIA: Yeah, that's so true. And you know this idea of mindfulness eating, or eating with mindfulness, this is actually also such a critical aspect of so many religious and faith and spiritual traditions. For example, again Muslim, Muslims I know… before... first of all… even and for that matter, even Christians and Jews and Hindus and Jains, Brahma Kumaris… these are just some of the traditions that I'm familiar with. And in all of these traditions, first of all, they teach you to be conscious about what you're eating, and choose to eat foods that are good for you and good for the environment, that are… where you're not torturing animals, for example. Like, they might... even if the, like Muslims, we’re allowed to eat meat and animal products. But we're taught that, you know, if you're going to take the life of an animal for food, that's a very serious thing that you're doing. And you better not do it casually and take it for granted, and stuff. So there's a whole ritual process that is mandated for us to go through, and if you're going to take the life of an animal… And then there are all these other rules around, you know, how you prepare food and what ingredients you can and cannot use. And sometimes it's not so much about the rule itself, that's so important...

HOLLY: Yeah.

SAMIA: ...it's about getting into that habit and that mindset of eating with mindfulness, even before you actually get to the point of actually eating. So even the way you prepare your food, the ingredients that you choose, like, do all of that mindfully. And then when you're actually even about to eat, you know, it's like, okay, first you say a prayer and then you put the food in your mouth. And you know, even while you're eating you're encouraged to think of gratitude, like, be in gratitude, you know, and be like, thank you God for giving me this food and this nutrition and... yeah. So this is such a prominent part of so many faith and religious traditions also, but again it's been lost, this knowledge and this way of doing things…

HOLLY: Yeah, we’re really disconnected with our food compared to, you know, even like 100 years ago… people were way more… they knew where their food came from. And it was supposed to happen when you were to take the life of an animal…. whatever…. A lot of that has been lost. And that's kind of what we bring back when we talk about mindful and intuitive eating. A huge component to, especially when I'm working with people who... not… I wouldn't say that they have an eating disorder, but they have disordered eating. Like, they have their own little ritual they go through with food… Like, I can only eat a cookie if it's cut in four pieces, and I eat like one at one o'clock and one at 1:05 and... I mean some people have some really strange rituals, but they are of food. So we try to change the way that they think about eating, the ritual of eating, how they feel about themselves… Go from, like, a mindset of eating to punish yourself and instead replace that with eating to nourish yourself, eating to give yourself energy, eating to give yourself love… It's such a different mindset than most people have, especially right now.

SAMIA: That is so true. And I bet this, having this kind of mindset, you know, getting more into this intuitive eating philosophy and really committing to that… I bet that's a great compliment to the hypnosis work that you do. Because I know, again from my experience as an energy healer and being a receiver of energy healing… like, when I would just receive energy healing, oftentimes, you know, you feel really good and awesome in the moment of receiving healing. But then when you're outside of that time of receiving the healing, then your brain is still thinking in the same typical ways that you think. And that really slows down… it sort of slows down your healing process in the sense that you… you're sort of reverting yourself back, it's like you're falling back… It's like the energy healing session helps pull you out of the hole, and then with your negative thinking patterns you just throw yourself back in.

HOLLY: Yeah.

SAMIA: And so it's like, you on the one hand, you can be giving people suggestions and they accept them in the moment, but then if they don't make some more changes in the way that they think at a conscious level, then it's much more challenging in many cases to actually experience the benefits of the hypnosis on a more long-term basis.

HOLLY: That's why it's powerful, especially when it's combined with a little bit of coaching. Even if we only spend 15 minutes debriefing at the end of a hypnosis session… just be like, okay, we did these suggestions about, you know, you craving vegetables or whatever… so I want you to be prepared… how are you gonna make sure that those vegetables are readily available to you? So sometimes it is about helping people set goals as far as like, how they're gonna shop, when they're going to shop, making sure their food is prepared. You know, they're... it's complicated and everybody's situation is different. But you have to follow it through with actions. When working with my smoking clients… they throw their cigarettes away. We don't mess around with that kind of stuff, you know. They have to change up the way that they've done stuff. Like, if you were somebody who, the minute you get in a car you light up a cigarette, you've got to change that.

SAMIA: Yeah.

HOLLY: Or that conscious cue is just going to bother you every time you get in the car. It's the same with food… we have eating rituals, you know. Like, you might have a snack the minute you walk, you walk in the door from work. So you might have to change how you walk in the door or what you do. And that's the kind of… that'll really make your subconscious mind be in line with what… with your goal that you want to achieve.

SAMIA: Yes, yes, and so bringing the subconscious mind into harmony with the way you act, the way your environment is, and the conscious goals that you have… to bring all of that into harmony.

HOLLY: Yeah…

SAMIA: That’s very important. Thank you for sharing that Holly! Any... I'm so sorry but we'll have to start wrapping up for the day. I’m having so much fun with you, I don't want to stop. And yet we have to. So any last thoughts, any last words of wisdom you would love to share right now?

HOLLY: Oh, I would just say that if you want to make changes in any type of behavior, and if you haven't considered hypnosis, it's something to look into. It works quicker than, like, your traditional therapy, or even if you were working with just a coach and working on your goals. So if you're looking for results that are lasting and quicker, it's something to consider. I can… I have… My website's not up yet. But I do have social media… on Facebook… @HolisticHavenHypnosis is my handle on Instagram and on Facebook. And I have LinkedIn, but I don't know what I'm doing with that yet.

SAMIA: No worries.

HOLLY: Also I do…I do these strange videos… So if you want to laugh, follow me on social media, because I do strange videos talking about the voice in your head… There's one really weird filter with this old lady, and she is exactly what the voice in my head sounds like… that's what she would look like if she were…

SAMIA: I've seen some of your videos, and you're brilliant. I love it. And you know what? We will for sure, for sure, include your links, whichever links that you like for people… that you would like people to connect with you through, those are the ones we will include in the show notes. So people please reach out to Holly and let her help you and support you, and especially given the fact that Holly does this brilliant combination of not just hypnosis but also coaching, or not just coaching but also combining, combining these modalities to help you make sure you get better results and much faster and more easily… More fun and easy, right… so that's what we are all about here. So thank you Holly.

HOLLY: It's been fun for sure.

SAMIA: Awesome, so until we see each other next time. I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy. :)