SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really really good to be with you again today. And I know you will be really happy you’ve joined us... Because guess who we have as our guest? It's Jennifer Jakobsen... who is Your Business Therapist. That is so cool. Welcome, Jennifer.

JENNIFER: Thank you... Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me…

SAMIA: Yes, I'm so happy to have you. And I’m going to ask you to jump right in by telling us more about who you are and what you do...

JENNIFER: Yeah, absolutely. So I am a... well, I'm a therapist, and I am a life coach. And I have... I started my life coaching business about… almost five years ago, I took a lot of time off… I was doing therapy, and then I became a stay-at-home mom and I stayed at home with my three girls. And then I had to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up again… after... after my youngest went… went into school full time. And so I thought, You know what, I love life coaching. So I got certified as a life coach. And then over the last almost five years, I've changed my niche several times and have landed on the perfect one for me, which is being the business therapist. And basically what that means is, I help coaches get out of their head... coaches and service providers both… but I help them get out of their heads so they can actually solve the real problems in their business. So many of us get stuck in our heads and our mindset just throws us for all these loops... And so I help you get out of your head, so you can actually really build the business of your dreams... So that is me in a nutshell. And I'm just so excited to be chatting with you.

SAMIA: Oh my gosh, thank you again for joining me. I'm so excited to be chatting with you. And for sure, you know, I see a lot of resonance and commonalities in what you're sharing and a lot of what I've experienced also… for example, being a business person, going through that journey of changing your niche, trying to figure out your right fit... And in that process, you know, there's just so much stuff going on that's like just your mind playing tricks on you...

JENNIFER: Yes…

SAMIA: ...and fears popping up and all of that… And I am telling you, this is one of the most important lessons that I've learned that some of my mentors and coaches have helped me learn… that really, truly, when you look at the root causes of pretty much any problem you have... it's not really about the strategy, or, oh, I'm not having the right tools or software or this or that... Usually, almost always, it comes down to… like there's something going on in your mind...

JENNIFER: Exactly, yes...

SAMIA: Figure that out and shift that, you can solve your problems with more fun and ease...

JENNIFER: Absolutely, yes. Because our brain likes to make it complicated. Our brains... human brains, we do this… and this is totally normal. This is what we do... We make everything really complicated... we worry, we doubt… we have all these mindset blocks that come up… we feel like an imposter, we compare ourselves to everyone else, we feel like we're not good enough... And that is truly what holds us back, I believe. And no matter what strategy you're using, I mean, let's face it, there are so many strategies… There's so many tools… there's all of these options out there... But you cannot implement any strategy if you don't have your mindsets, you know, in the right… kind of like, you know, you got to have your brain kind of screwed on correctly otherwise... otherwise nothing's going to work… and that's what I discovered over the last five years… because really, like, having a business is tough. It's really a roller coaster ride. But if you have the right mindset, if you have a positive, you know, mindset… and I'm not saying you have to be like, happy and positive all the time… but we… if we can look at our thoughts, and we can really question our thoughts and ask ourselves, is this really true? And what is a different thought that we want to think about this? …we can get out of our own way, and we can make our strategies actually work for us...

SAMIA:  Yes, exactly... exactly. Oh, I’m so on board with you about that.

JENNIFER: Yeah. And we can make it fun and easy, right? Like, we can make it fun and easy...

SAMIA: Yes!

JENNIFER: And it doesn't have to be as hard as we're making it… we always make it more complicated. And like I said, that's totally normal. And so... and not only do we sometimes, like, get down on ourselves, and we get, you know, we doubt ourselves… and then we get mad at ourselves for getting down on, down, down on ourselves. So it's really like, yeah… if we can just kind of like get out of our brain... And one of the things that I really think it's so important to focus on when we're in a service-based business is to really get out of our heads and focus on our clients. Because ultimately, it's about that… that's why we're doing this… we are coaches, we are, you know, service providers… because we want to help other people. And when we get stuck in our head, and we start to, you know, feel down on ourselves or, you know, feel like we're not good enough... we're really, we're not doing our clients any favors… because the longer we stay stuck in our head, and we're not putting our offers out there... we're not, you know, helping our clients… that is, you know, that's... it's a shame… it's really a shame because we need to be out there making offers to help people because that's what we do best...

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed... And I mean, not just making the offers, but when someone accepts your offer, and you're working with them, and you're not in the right headspace yourself, you can't serve them in the best way, at any stage of the process, you know... so, my gosh… so when we think about, you know, all the different kinds of problems that can sort of come into our brain that, you know, we get stuck on… that, you know, make us feel like... "Oh, my God, this is so hard, business is so hard, making change is so hard..." when you think about all the potential problems… what would you say is maybe like one of the most common problems that you help your clients deal with?

JENNIFER: Yeah... oh, my gosh, that is such a good and difficult question to answer. I honestly, I think... ugh… it’s tough... I want to say doubt… I think there's so much doubt, especially when you're kind of newer in your business… and/or you've been doing it for a little while, and you're not making the money that you want to make, you're not making the impact you want to make. And so what you do is you start to doubt yourself... And what happens is that doubt, kind of, it tends to spiral out of control. And what happens then is we, you know, we start by doubting ourselves, and then we sort of, you know... I've heard the term coined "the cute quit", we kind of quit on ourselves in a small way... And we, we don't show up… and we start to distract ourselves with unimportant things, you know… we start to focus on things that aren't really going to help our clients... And so doubt can really spiral out of control. So I think that's one of the big things. And really, it's like, I think doubt gets in the way of one of the most important things that we need to do, which is being consistent... Because honestly, like, one of the biggest things that I've seen, you know, coaches… when things get difficult, they, you know, unfortunately, they give up... and they think, "Oh, this is too hard. I can't do this", you know… and that's, that's such a shame because really, it is going to be hard... And we also make it a lot harder than it needs to be. So I think if we can just look at those doubtful thoughts and we can try to reframe them... we can try to shift those stories… like for example, I know for me... like I've had so many failed calls that have ended in a no or not right now, or I have to wait until I get the money... And so oftentimes, we... and I've done this myself many, many times, especially when I first started out… we make that about us. We think, "Okay, well, they said no, because, you know, they don't think I'm good enough… they think that I'm not going to be able to help them." And so what happens is we… that... that doubt turns into, you know, we're making their, you know, they're ‘no’ mean something about us... when really it oftentimes has nothing to do with us. And when we believe it's about us, we start to feel really bad... And we might quit, we might cute quit, where we, you know, we stop doing the things that are going to help us grow in our business... we distract ourselves with other things. And that's really... it's such an easy thing to shift if we can remember that, you know, it really doesn't have to be about us. And we have to come back to our missions. So what, so what if somebody said no... there are so many people out there who are going to say yes… you just have to keep going. And you have to trust yourself. And you have to believe in the fact that you can help people… and you really can help people… if your hearts in the right place and you want to make a difference in the lives of your clients and in the world, you got to keep going... You've got to deal with the roller coaster... And that's where I come in, that's where I can help you manage those thoughts so that you don't quit on yourself...

SAMIA: Yes. And isn't that like so... I mean, important also, in the sense that, especially for those of us are service providers, who are coaches… like, so much of what we work on with our clients, is helping our clients manage their thoughts and manage their doubts...

JENNIFER: Yes…

SAMIA: It's like, let's practice what we preach… apply all of those good ideas and strategies and mindsets to ourselves. And as coaches and service providers, we know, it's not always possible for us to maintain that positive energy and mindset that we need if you're struggling on your own... Sometimes you need help and support. And that's really what it's about...

JENNIFER: I totally agree with you. And I think it's hard because I think as women, sometimes we think, "Oh, we should be able to do this on our own, we should be able to figure it out." And truly we can't figure it out on our own. I know I've tried time and time again to coach myself… and it's so hard to coach yourself, it really is... because we can't always see our own blocks. A lot of them are subconscious… like a lot of the times we don't even realize what we're doing. And somebody else can see it so much more clearly than we can... Yes.

SAMIA: For sure... I mean, I've had this experience again and again and again where... man, like just… I had this really ironic sort of experience recently when I was going through a little bit of a hard time... And definitely I could eventually see that it was a mindset issue. But one of the things that sort of helped me get out of it was I wrote a book in which I have given amazing advice on how to create inner peace to world peace in three simple steps. And I forgot to implement my own advice... and my number one advice that… I happened to open my book, and it landed on of course the perfect page... 

JENNIFER: Oh my gosh... 

SAMIA: My number one bit of advice was, "Get some help and support."

JENNIFER: Yes! Yes! I know right… and we so often do that we forget to follow our own advice… and we get distracted, right. Like you have to stay focused… and it's so hard to stay focused as... focused as humans because we have like 60,000 thoughts, you know, running through our head every day… and so it's hard to like focus on the basics that we might know, and we might be able to tell our clients this… but sometimes we forget to, you know, take our own advice… we forget to focus on the basics... And the basics are really like… who are you helping? How are you helping them? Focus on your client, right… And we forget that because we get so like caught up in our own brain… then we get in that doubt, in that worry, and we think… oh gosh, you know, what if, what if… right… all the what ifs... What if this doesn't work? What if I'm not going to be able to help this person? Oh, I should be able to figure this out…. We “should” on ourselves a lot too... And so if we can just come back to the basics… but it's not always easy to do, because our brains don't... our brains aren't supporting that for us. So we really need an outside person to be able to, you know, help us and guide us and support us. And I really think it's one of the most important things we can do.

SAMIA: Yes. And so when you're helping and supporting your people, what are some concrete steps that, you know, you might encourage them to take to help them begin to transition to a more positive, empowered mindset?

JENNIFER: Yeah... oh, there's so many. I mean, there's so many tools, but the be... the very, very, very first step always has to be awareness. You always have to become aware first of what your thoughts actually are. And, honestly, the best way to do this is just to really figure out what works best for you. I mean, honestly, it's... you might have to just experiment and try several different things. Maybe you love to meditate so you can kind of meditate and become very aware of your thoughts… you can journal... even just going for a walk, going out into nature… but really tuning in to what your brain is saying… what are the... what are the sentences running through your mind… because, believe it or not, those are the sentences and those are the thoughts that are kind of controlling so much of your, your everyday actions and your feelings and your success, right. So our thoughts lead to our feelings, and our feelings leads to our actions and our actions lead to our results... So the first thing we have to focus on is getting to know what our thoughts are… and then we have to look at them, we have to analyze them... without judgment, right… Because, you know, we don't always have control over our thoughts if we don't know what they are. Now, as soon as we're aware of what they are... the crucial thing that you need to realize, and you need to know is, you have a choice… you can choose what those thoughts are. And it's hard, because no one told me that growing up. When I was a little girl, like, I just thought I had a feeling and that was just the feeling I was stuck with. And I was doomed to have that feeling. And it made me feel, you know… if it made me feel like crap, then I would not, you know, take the action that I wanted to take. But knowing now that I can choose my thoughts is so incredibly empowering. So as soon as you know what they are, you got to start to really look at them and question them... And you have to kind of ask yourself the question… is this thought serving me? 

SAMIA: Hmm...

JENNIFER: ...and then if you're like, "I don't think the thought is serving me, the thought is leading me to feel a way that I don't want to feel..." You need to take a look at what is a different thought that I would rather believe… what is a different thought that I would rather think… and how would that thought make you feel. And when you realize that that actually is a better feeling, you need to start to practice thinking that thought over and over again. So it's really just getting very in tuned with your brain… and your brain is gonna play tricks on you… your brain is it's there to keep you safe. Like that's where all of… you know that… that's how we have, you know, survived for millions of years, right? Like we need, we needed our brains to keep us safe. A nd they're still hardwired in the same way... So we have to really question, you know, yeah… maybe the thought is keeping me safe. But is it really giving me the result that I want. And a lot of times in business, being safe is not really what you want. You want to get out of your comfort zone and you want to push yourself past where it feels safe, because that's when you're gonna get the results that you really want...

SAMIA: Okay, okay… You’ve brought up some really excellent points… and just to play a little bit of the devil’s advocate...

JENNIFER: Yes! I love it. 

SAMIA: I want to ask you like, some questions… So, you know, like, when... when you, when you say, oh my gosh, you didn't always realize that you could choose your thoughts... 

JENNIFER: Yeah…

SAMIA: I think that's like so huge. Because just like you, I didn't always realize that I could choose my thoughts. And when I was in that state of believing that I couldn't choose my thoughts... It's like… it just… to hear someone say that, it's like, "No, what are you talking about? I cannot choose my thoughts." Like, I know, especially as a trauma survivor...

JENNIFER: Yeah, yeah...

SAMIA: ..I was so disempowered in that context with all these thoughts constantly going in my brain… they were not happy, they were not empowering… they created a lot of shame, and anger, and fear, and guilt… and all kinds of negative emotions... And I honestly didn't think I had any control over them. And so for people for whom it's not their reality that they can control their thoughts… or at least that's how it feels... How can you help them... Or how can they help themselves begin to experience the different reality that... "No, you can choose your thoughts."

JENNIFER: Yeah, that's a really, really hard question to answer because it's so different for every single person... I think you just have to try it on, right? Like, it's... if you've never done this before, yes, it's going to be so like, uncomfortable and strange. And you know, it's not gonna... it's gonna go against the grain, right? Because you have always believed one way. And so I would just challenge people... And, you know, it's tough to because I… it sounds so simple, right? And so I want to... I don't want to ever discount the feelings that people are having because yes, if you've gone through trauma, if you've gone through horrible things in your life, like, it's, it's okay to feel what you're feeling... And yes, we... it's so normal as human beings, we're going to feel that way. But the reality is that you don't have to stay there, right. Like, you don't have to stay there. If you're not currently experiencing that trauma anymore, you can try on a different thought, right. And sometimes we have to try on a lot of different thoughts… and this comes from one of my mentors who I went to her conference this weekend, Brooke Castillo, she is like the founder of some of this, you know, some of these models and thought work... And really, that's what she talks about is trying on a different thought… and just seeing how it feels... And, you know, sometimes you got to try on a lot of different thoughts before you find the one that feels good for you. Like, sometimes it's too big of a jump to go from, you know... I'm like, give me I thought… like, help me... Give me a thought and I'll see if we can work it.

SAMIA: So I remember having this thought a lot, especially during my early days as a coach, where I was like, "Oh, I'm not good enough, because I don't have enough experience."

JENNIFER: Yes, yes. Okay, perfect... I am not good enough, because I don't have enough experience, right. And so how does that thought make you feel? 

SAMIA: Oh, well, very disempowered… nervous about working with clients… oh my gosh, I have to learn more, learn more... So wanting to go into, like, avoidance in terms of actually working with clients by focusing on learning more... 

JENNIFER: Right, right. Right. 

SAMIA: And just feeling a really, you know, like, just feeling a sense of stress and anxiety in terms of when I was actually trying to help clients...

JENNIFER: Okay, yes... Okay. Perfect example. Thank you for that one. So, "not good enough, because you don't have enough experience." So what that leads to is nervousness... And what that leads to is you learning more… and learning more isn't actually helping your clients, right… like learning more... the result is you're learning more… and that's great. And I definitely encourage learning more... This is something I do all the time… I, I'm always learning. And sometimes learning can be a way of avoiding what you really want to be doing, which is helping your clients. So let's take the thought I am not good enough because I don't have enough experience... Let me ask you this. Is that true? Do you really not have enough experience to help?

SAMIA: Well, in that mindset, I really did, yes, believe that was the truth… because I was just starting out. And I had in fact not coached very many people, at least not professionally... And I mean, I compared myself to my coaches, and I saw how much more quickly they got to the point and identified the root cause... And I was like, I am just not able to do that as quickly and effectively. And so yes, it's true. I don't have enough experience.

JENNIFER: But did you... Okay, so it feels true. It feels very, very true that you don't have enough experience. However, prior to that, did you have any experience in your life helping people?

SAMIA: Yes... 

JENNIFER: Yes, you did, right... So what if you tried on the thought… I have had some experience helping people and so I can help some people...

SAMIA: Yes, that, that's... that was true. That is true. Yes...

JENNIFER: And how does that feel?

SAMIA: That feels better because there are at least some people I can help. So I might not be able to handle all the cases, but I can definitely help some people. That's good...

JENNIFER: Yeah, so that feels better. Tell me more about better. How does that feel? Like does it feel… like before it was nervous… Do you feel a little less nervous... maybe?

SAMIA: Yeah, probably a little less nervous, but also a little more hopeful...

JENNIFER: Yeah... And what actions do you take when you feel more hopeful?

SAMIA: Well, I am more willing to actually try working with clients...

JENNIFER: Yeah...

SAMIA: …until I run into a problem that I've really… that I'm like, Oh, I cannot solve this, or something like that, I'm willing to give it a try.

JENNIFER: Absolutely. Yeah... And that's thought, you know… just trying on that new thought gives you this sense of hope, which gets you moving into action, and actually serving those clients. So that is a great way to start to build a business...

SAMIA: Yay!

JENNIFER: Yeah, and it doesn't have to be perfect. You're right... In the very beginning, you're absolutely right… you don't have a ton of experience, you don't have as much experience as your coach has… but you have some experience to help some people… and then you can keep learning, and then you'll get more experience to help more people. But by staying stuck in that thought, you won't ever get that experience you need... So you're never going to grow, you're never going to be able to help even more and more people. So yes, so just switching that one thought... do you… can you kind of see what a difference that can make?

SAMIA: Yes, indeed. And it actually made me think about other thoughts and other lessons that can support that one… because I remember one of my… actually, this was… I can't believe I forgot, you know, like I was saying earlier, to apply things that I've actually learned and that I would teach other people... But before I started coaching professionally, what I was doing was working on a sexual assault and domestic violence hotline as a crisis counselor... And one of the most important lessons I would say we learned in that context was… yes, you're not going to have the solution to every situation. But we always had a planned response. And so in situations where I was like, Okay, I have personally tried everything that I can, and I'm still not able to resolve this situation or help this person in this moment… So then the response was to ask for help and support… go to my mentor, my supervisor, and, you know, basically… literally, we would hand the case over to them. And/or refer the person out to some other organization or resource from where they could get the more appropriate help and support that they needed, you know… And so, it's like… but as a coach, when I stepped into that role, I built up this expectation in my head… like… and who put that expectation on me that I should be able to help every client in every situation... I had already learned that I couldn't do that in a different context and what I could do instead, so...

JENNIFER: Yes, yes. And you are the only one who put that expectation on yourself, right. And so yeah, and we do that so often… as... as human beings, as service providers, we put these high expectations on ourselves. And in the beginning we can't, we can't meet those expectations… we have to kind of go step by step, little by little... And then we gain confidence. And then we help more people. And then we gain more confidence. And it's just, yeah, so... But putting those really high expectations on yourself, and then, you know, feeling bad about yourself, that doesn't get you to where you want to go. So you have to give yourself some grace, you have to give yourself permission to, you know, do it imperfect in the beginning… and definitely ask for help... definitely ask for help.

SAMIA: Thanks for that... That was like... I can totally see the business therapists in you, and you're a brilliant, brilliant business therapist. Oh, my gosh, now I'm in a dilemma. Should we keep talking, although it's time to start wrapping up...

JENNIFER: I know, we could talk forever...

SAMIA: …or just bring you back... I'm thinking… let's bring you back and keep talking in the next episode…

JENNIFER: I would love that... Yes, I would love that.

SAMIA: Oh, me too, me too... And so for right now, do you have any last thoughts or words that you would like to share with us?

JENNIFER: I really, I think we covered so much… so many golden nuggets today. But yeah, I just want to encourage everyone to really, like, listen to your... listen to that inner voice. And you know, know that help is out there. If you're struggling, there's always somebody there that can help you. And, you know, if you can get out of your head and stop telling yourself… I should be able to figure it out on my own… I, you know, I need to be able to do this without another person... That's just another thought. And really, that leads us to feel very isolated, that leads us to feel very much alone. And so you don't have to be alone... We can, we can make this change fun and easy by helping others know that they can, you know, really reach out for help. There's so many people in the world… and I really, I mean, I'm just gonna go on a... on a tangent here… But I think the more coaches in the world, the better this world is going to be... So if you're wanting to be a coach, if you are a coach, like keep going… don't give up… and seek help. Because you're going to make a huge difference in the world. And that difference is a ripple effect because you're going to help other people. They're gonna help other people. It's gonna keep going and going... So yes, don't quit on yourself. Keep going. You can do this. But don't hesitate to reach out for help.

SAMIA: Thank you, thank you for that really, really important encouragement and reminder  Jennifer... and I'm going to remind all of our listeners… please make sure you check the show notes because we will be adding Jennifer's links there so you can connect with her and get some help and support whenever you need it, whenever you're ready for it... So please do that. And until we connect next time I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy. :)

JENNIFER: Thank you... :)