SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really, really awesome to be with you again. And guess what... We have a returning guest today. It's Jennifer Jakobsen, Your Business Therapist... I'm so excited to have you back with us Jennifer, welcome.

JENNIFER: Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be back... This is so much fun. I always love talking to you. So we could do this all the time.

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed... I’m so happy to have you with me again. You know Jennifer, just for those people who might have missed our last episode... would you give a quick recap of who you are and what you do?

JENNIFER: Yeah, absolutely. So I am, like you said, Your Business Therapist and what I do is I help basically female coaches and service providers to really get out of their own heads, so they can actually solve the problems in their business. Because what I have found since starting my own business is, so many of us get stuck in our heads… we overthink, we worry, we have fears, we have, you know, all of the things… the imposter syndrome, we compare ourselves... And what happens is we get those stuck in our heads... we actually don't take enough action. And that really holds us back in our businesses. And so if we can get out of our heads and start taking action, and really solve the problems that are in our way, we can start to get more clients, make a bigger impact and make more cash...

SAMIA: Oh, I love that. In fact, the last time we were talking together, we did a brilliant demo for people. I mean, it was a real exercise that you led me through. And, you know, I picked a thought that was bothersome, and you know... you know, could potentially be keeping you stuck. 

JENNIFER: Yeah.

SAMIA: And then Jennifer helped me work through it...

JENNIFER: Yeah...

SAMIA: And we experimented in that context to see… oh my gosh, how changes… by changing your thoughts, you can actually change the way that you feel, and therefore the way that you act... it was really brilliant, I loved it. 

JENNIFER: It's so... I loved it too. And it's just such an empowering way to look at things because a lot of us feel like we were given these situations and then we feel like, you know, we feel however we feel about it, right... We feel really bad about it, we feel like, Oh, this is unfair, this is you know, this is really just a bad situation… we have negative thoughts that  come up automatically. And what's so empowering about looking at our thoughts is we can change our thoughts. And it's something we have complete control of, even if we haven't control of nothing else outside of ourselves... we have control of our thoughts… we always have control of how we see a situation. And it's just such an empowering way to be because as soon as we can change our thoughts, we can change our feelings, and then we can change our actions and our results... And you know, if we focused on anything else, it… we just ended up not being able to make that much of a change. But if we change our thoughts, that's where the real change happens... And I think we can make it fun and easy because, you know, changing our thoughts doesn't have to be the super complicated thing... It just… it has to feel right. And it has to be something that we practice, and we make a habit of practicing… because it's not easy to change our thoughts but it can be if we choose thoughts that we can believe more easily. And also if we practice that and know that… that the results that are going to come about from changing our thoughts are going to make a huge difference in our lives... So even though it's not easy, it absolutely can be something that we all do.

SAMIA: Yeah, and I agree with you... And I think as we practice, it actually becomes easier and easier... because the practice part is really key... Our brain is a creature of habit, if I may use that terminology. And so, you know, it just takes a little bit of time to build new habits… and when you're trying to change the way that you think in terms of thinking more positive, more empowering thoughts, etc., you know, you do need practice, and you need to repeat the new thought that you really want to be led by... Because otherwise, you know, it's natural for your brain to keep thinking the old thoughts. But as you think the new thought more and more, you practice that thought more and more... it becomes more and more natural and easy to do.

JENNIFER: And what's so cool is that actually, when we do that… so it, yeah... the more you practice it, it becomes a habit and it becomes easier. And what's even more exciting is that our brains will actually change... So there's this thing called neuroplasticity, which tells us that the more that we, you know… the more our brain fires a certain way, the more likely it's going to be able to do that. So we're all built, you know, as human beings, our brains are, you know... we are… our thoughts come from so many different places… but we're hardwired to think negatively. So we have to actually intentionally change our thoughts. And when we do that enough, our brain actually changes too... And so it becomes easy in that sense as well, because it won't be so hard to, you know, form a more positive thought when our brain is wired now to actually think more positive thoughts.

SAMIA: Yeah, I love that. And, you know, as I think about this very empowering idea… like for me, I find it very empowering... I can see a potential roadblock in the way. 

JENNIFER: Yeah...

SAMIA: I want to get your feedback on how to overcome it. So when you're thinking about, okay, I want to change my brain, I want to train it to become more positive thinking and so forth... I think the roadblock that can come in the way is confusion, you know, a lack of clarity... about what is even a more positive direction for me to go into, for example… what could even be a more positive thought for me to try and think… because when you are especially stressed and worried about something... it can be really challenging in that state to see a solution. So how do you even begin to, you know, get more clear about, you know, what… what the possible more positive thinking might be…

JENNIFER: Right. Yes, absolutely. And I love that you asked this question because it's, it's something I have struggled with personally, in my business... like I have had times in my own business where I've felt really confused. I feel like, well I don't know what to do next... I'm not getting the number of clients that I want to get... So I tell myself, I have the thought... I'm confused, I don't know what to do. And that is a very safe, comforting thought in a way because if you don't know what to do, and you're confused... you just stay in that loop of I don't know what to do, and I'm confused. And unfortunately, even though that feels... it might feel kind of safe to say that because you're like, well, I don't know what to do. So I can just not do anything… right? Or I don't know what to do. So I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to seek the solution outside of myself… I'm going to try to like, you know, start taking more free courses online, or I'm gonna start looking, you know, looking for the answers outside of me... but I think if you take your thought... Okay, so we're using the thought, "I don't know what to do. I'm confused," right… So if we take that thought, that's a very disempowering thought... that's a thought that makes us feel really like stuck... you feel really stuck, you feel really confused, you feel really like, I... you know, I'm... I'm not good enough to come up with a solution. So if we say instead to ourselves… I can figure this out. I have the ability to figure this out. And I'm choosing to not be stuck and confused… It actually opens ourselves up to things that we haven't thought of before... And when we allow ourselves to think… "I'm going to figure this out, I am capable of figuring this out. I have the power to figure this out"... all of a sudden our creativity like kicks in and we start to be like, "Okay, well, maybe I actually do know what to do right now." And it's like, you can even ask yourself the question... You know, if you're telling yourself, "I don't know what to do next"... you can say to yourself… "What if I did know what to do next? What would I do next if I knew exactly what to do next?" And I know it kind of sounds a little weird, but it actually opens you up... Because what you do when you say that you don't have clarity, is you're just... you're… it's like a cop-out like you're taking the easy street, right? You're saying, I don't know what to do next. So I'm just gonna stay in this stuck place... But when you say, what if I didn't know what to do next? What would I do next? It opens you… it kind of just gives you this power and this creativity, and this possibility to let your brain start to look at the other options... So I was telling myself that in my business for the longest time… I would say, "I don't know what to do. I just... I'm not getting any clients. This is so frustrating. I'm so sick of this, maybe I should just throw in the towel. Maybe I should quit, maybe I should give up." And then I said to myself, "No, actually, you know what to do, you're resourceful, you’re intelligent, you have lots of different support systems out there... You've got people who you can bounce ideas off of." And so it opened me up to new possibilities... And so I started using those new possibilities. And really, like there's so many questions you can ask yourself to get clarity. So in terms of my method, what I teach my clients in my program is, I have what I call my clarity to cash method. And really, clarity is the first step in that. And clarity involves getting clear on your vision... So if you're feeling really stuck, like asking yourself these questions... "So what is my bigger vision… is the first piece of clarity… Where do I want to be one year from now? Where do I want to be three years from now?" And then what you really do is you kind of get yourself really almost like embodied in that future you, right... and you start to show up as your future you, which is another really great way to get unstuck because you can say... "Okay, well, what would my future self do right now? What would my future you, my future self... think right now? How would she feel? How would she take action?" Right... So clarity in your vision is first… clarity in your mission also is really important. And your mission to me is like your big why... Like, why are you doing this? What is the impact that you want to make for your clients and for your own life? And so when you start to ask yourself that question, like, "what is my bigger why?" It really gets… for me... it always gets me out of my own head and starts… it starts to get me focused on my clients and what she needs instead of me staying stuck in my stuckness, right? Like, what does she need? And how can I get out of my head and into action to help her out, right... So that's the other part of clarity. Again, clarity is the... "Who is your dream client? How do I connect with her? Who, you know… what are my offers? What's my solution that I'm providing?" Those are all things that go along with clarity, which is my first… the first piece of my method... Once you know all that you start to get really confident. And when you're confident, you have confident thoughts, right... So you start to take action based on this confidence. The third piece... and these are all C’s, if you'll notice... So we've got clarity first, then we've got confidence, which comes from the clarity... After that you start to connect... so connect with your community, connect with people who you could potentially help, right. Seek out those people that you can make your offer to. And if you're clear on who your person is, and you're clear on your offer, and your solution, you know who to connect with. And then you got to do it consistently. Because let's face it, we all want immediate gratification. We all want this to work really quickly and get clients and cash immediately… but that's not how it really works in entrepreneurship... So we have to be consistent. We have to show up over and over and over again until our people start to know us and trust us. And once they know us and trust us, that's when they'll hire us... So that's what I teach my clients. This is like, what you can kind of come back to when you're feeling really stuck… but I think being stuck is a very, very common feeling that we have... And I want to encourage anyone who is feeling stuck to kind of go back to that clarity and ask, you know... ask yourself, "What's my bigger vision? My mission? Who's my client? What's my offer? How do I connect with that person?" And I think that'll get you unstuck...

SAMIA: Yeah, I love that. It's like, go back to the basics...

JENNIFER: Yeah, yeah...

SAMIA: ...we've just made things too complex. And so going back to the basics can really give us that perspective shift that we need to uncomplicate the things that we have maybe overcomplicated. And I also really loved what you shared about, you know, thinking from the perspective of your future self... I mean, that is actually one of my favorite exercises too. I remember this... One of the very first times that I experienced that was in the context of a business training that I was going through... and, you know, it's like... it's so interesting… like, when you just free your brain, you're like, okay, this is in the future, this is not now. Just imagine what's happening in the future... and then just imagining what I'm doing in that future to make that happen... It just really gets your creative juices flowing… it’s just because you're not worried about the realism in that imagination of what's in the future. 

JENNIFER: Yeah... it gets you out of your head, right... It gets you over all those mindset blocks that are getting in the way. 

SAMIA: Yes. And I remember one trick that I learned from my coach and teacher at that training was... some people were still feeling a little stuck when they were imagining themselves like 1 to 3 years in the future. Because they were like… I want this, but it's not realistic that I can have it in one to three years... like they weren't… their brain still wasn't free enough to truly imagine... And so then my teacher was like, Well, imagine what if it's 15 years later? What if it's like 30 years later? Is this possible for you to have achieved this dream that you have? And most of you are like, yeah, that 15 years from now, for sure. I could have made this happen. I can make this happen in 15 years, or 30 years or whatever that number that you finally think... yes, that's realistic… So okay, go ahead that far into the future and now imagine, what are you doing...

JENNIFER: Yeah, right. And I think, even though it feels like really far off... I think, when you start to believe… even if you're like, Okay, well, it's 15 years from now, and you start… but what happens is, I think you start to believe that you can do it... And I doubt that it's ever going to take people that long… because now they're operating from this place of like, confidence and belief. And they're very energized, because now, you know, there's the pressure off in a way. And I think pressure is good and pressure can be not good... But you know, if they're just taking the action now, as if, like, it's definitely going to happen, I think it just gives you so much more confidence in it... Yeah, I think it can really open you up like we were saying to new possibilities... And if you are putting too much pressure on yourself to do it too quickly, maybe those possibilities aren't going to be there in the same way.

SAMIA: Yes. Because the pressure that we feel is also a product of our thoughts and our thinking... And so we keep coming back to this idea that we can control our thoughts, we can change our thoughts… and so we can relieve the sense of pressure that we have put on ourselves... 

JENNIFER: Absolutely... yeah. I love it...

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed. Okay, okay. So... so, there is clarity, then there was confidence, then there was the… it leads to a sense of… can you remind me of the steps in your system...

JENNIFER: Yeah, yeah... So after clarity and confidence comes connections...

SAMIA: ..connections... 

JENNIFER: Yeah, and the reason that connections... I believe should come after clarity and confidence is because if you start to connect with people and are not clear and you don't have a sense of confidence... And I'm not saying you have to be like 100% confident or 100% clear... But when you make connections with people feeling at least, you know, pretty- pretty clear, pretty confident, they're going to trust you… because they're going to know that you're the expert in what you do because you know what you're talking about, you're not stumbling over your words, you're not, you know, coming across as somebody who's just straight out of the gate… you're, you know, you put some thought into this and you actually know what you're talking about... So people will really trust you, and they will have that opportunity to know if you're the right person for them.

SAMIA: Right… and I love that you made this point of you don't have to be 100%... Because on the clarity and the confidence... because I imagine… I know for me, certainly… these things on the one hand, you know, it's like yes, first we get more clear, and then you get more confident and we make the connection... But then there's also this like feedback loop that happens, right? And so as we connect with more people, it can actually also help us get more clarity and more confidence…

JENNIFER: Yes, yes, yes… I would say it's a journey, not an event, right... Like you have to keep... Yeah, and that's why I think... and especially for people who are in the beginning of their business, if they haven't had a lot of clients already, market research is really great for that because you can actually like find out… if you're a little unclear about who your ideal client is, or how you can help them is… you can start to ask people who you think might be, you can start to ask them questions… and that will help you get more clarity around... Who are the people I really want to help? And who are the people maybe I don't want to help? Which is fine too.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah… and so when you talk about doing some market research... what's your favorite recommendation for how people do market research?

JENNIFER: Well, I'm sorry, what's the... my favorite?

SAMIA: How should people actually engage in the marketing research... Is there any specific process or tool, or anything that you recommend...

JENNIFER: Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, you can do surveys, you can just ask questions on social media... But I think the best way is to actually get on a call with people… either a zoom call or a phone call. Because here's the thing, when we are trying to get to really know who our dream clients is, we want their words. And if we create a survey, what we're doing is, we might be asking questions, and they might actually, you know, if it's an open-ended question that's always going to be better. But like, if we're just having them check off the boxes, then they are our words... And what we really want to get clear on is what are the words that they use to describe their problem... What are the words they use to describe what they want more than anything else, and what solution that they would truly pay for... And when we can ask that in more of an open-ended way, we really get a lot of... I don't know, it's just a lot of really great words and phrases for how they describe what they're going through and what their situation is... And when we know that we can actually use that in our social media copy and in our email copy… because now we, you know, because we might... and a lot of us have gone through the things that, you know, if we're helping an ideal client or a dream client... like a lot of times we have gone through what they're going through now in the past… and we can use our own thoughts and our own feelings that we've had… but when we also connect with more people we can use what they say... And it really helps us to get in their head… and when a client's... Yeah, here's the thing, when you can describe a client's situation or problem even more clearly than they can themselves, they automatically know that you have the solution... So if you can really get in their head and you can describe what they're going through… there… it creates this like automatic trust and they just know that you can help them... so it's really important to get that information… if you haven't done those, you know if you haven't had those sessions with clients already, market research… and yes, definitely, number one, get on a call with them to get their wording most importantly… so yeah... I hope that answered your question.

SAMIA: Yes. I love that, I love that... I agree with you about asking open-ended questions... Because I think what happens is that, in general, if you do surveys, for example, in general, people are more responsive if there are... the less work they have to do, the more likely they are to do it. 

JENNIFER: Yeah.

SAMIA: So in general when you do surveys, you want to have options that people can just check off... But in this particular case actually that backfires on you, because it doesn't help you meet the goal that you have. And so you may not have as many people who are willing to go through the more intensive process of the open-ended Q&A with you... But you'll actually got more valid results.

JENNIFER: Yes, yes… it's quality over quantity, for sure... And you can definitely do both. But I think for me, it has been really invaluable to get people's actual words.

SAMIA: Yes… Love that... And so... yeah, okay, okay… and I know you have like a fabulous, you know, Facebook community, and you also do these wonderful coffee chats on a weekly basis... they are actually open to everybody who wants to join for free. And these are the kinds of spaces I'm thinking about like, if you're aware you could potentially go and connect with other people and, you know, get some willing participants to like, maybe they'll be like, yes, we want to help you do your research.

JENNIFER: Yeah... Oh, yes, definitely. I think that's a great idea. And really, people love to help, right, I think in general, but yeah... if you have a community of people already asking the people in your community… because, yeah, if you're already offering something for free, they're more likely to want to, you know, help out and give back. But it's really amazing, like, so many people actually are completely willing to do this... I have… especially if you're in communities like, you know, maybe communities you've created, but also if you're in other communities... if you're in Facebook groups that you're really active in… or you know, just even ask people that you just know in this space... And, you know, if you're really not sure if they're gonna say yes or not, you can always offer like a $5 Starbucks gift card as a thank you or something like that. Or maybe you could, you know, offer to shout them out on your Instagram or something like that… some kind of a trade… but I have found that... especially women are really willing to, you know, jump on a quick phone call, you know… don't keep them on the phone for an hour... But, you know, just like 20... just 20 minutes, you know, just ask the most crucial questions, which is really just... what's their biggest pain point? What solution are they looking for, that they would pay for, you know… and what would make your program a no-brainer for them... Like, what is it that you could provide them that they would be like, "Yes, I absolutely need that. And I would be willing to pay for it."

SAMIA: Ah! Thank you for sharing those questions because that helps me get more clear on what to actually ask in the survey or market research that I do... That's awesome...

JENNIFER: Yeah, yeah absolutely... You're totally welcome.

SAMIA: Okay, so we've talked a little bit about the clarity and the confidence and then the connection... And so then the next step, I remember this… is consistency... Am I right? 

JENNIFER: Yeah, consistency...

SAMIA: Tell me a little bit more...

JENNIFER: Yeah, well you have to be consistent because you can't just put out one social media post and expect people to know who you are, automatically trust you and start looking for you, right... I think what people forget, is that it takes a while in business... and actually it takes people, you know... seeing your, you know, your content… you know, they need to see it over and over again. It used to be like seven to 10 times, I think now it's like... it's like 20 times that people need to see your information because... And especially like if you're doing your marketing on social media… a lot of times people aren't seeing what you're putting out there. And so you have to really be consistent and keep putting it out there… because it's not going to just be this instantaneous conversion… you really have to keep putting your message out there, keep letting people know how you can help them... And eventually, they will have seen your information enough times where they're like, "oh, yeah, like, that really makes sense to me, I really think this person can help me". And that's when they're going to reach out... And a lot of times, we have to actually reach out to them to, you know… consistency means us making those connections… you know, we often think, okay, if we you know, have this built business, if we build it, they will come, you know, and they're just gonna show up... But it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes we have to consistently reach out to people... And consistency also includes following up with people. So just because somebody, you know, for example, if you're making an offer to somebody, maybe you're on a sales call, and they say… No, I can't right now, the time is not right… or, I don't have the money... you know, looking at it, like, this isn't no forever... this is just no for now… and reach out to those people and say… Hey, you know, we connected about a month ago, and you didn't have, you know, the resources to invest in your business… but I'm wondering how things are now… I would love to, you know, see where you're at right now, see if I can still offer some sort of help for you… So it's consistency in your marketing, it's consistency in reaching out and connecting to people, it's consistency in follow-ups as well... So a lot comes under that consistency, but you really have to do it, you know, on a very ongoing basis. We can't just build a business with, you know, a couple posts and an email every, you know, every three months... we need to be consistent. People need to know who we are… they need to get to know us and like and trust us. And that comes with consistency.

SAMIA: Yes, thank you for helping me to get more clear on the consistency piece as well… yeah, and I think for me... I know, especially in the beginning, one of the more challenging... I didn't know if I actually if it was... yeah, I think the part that I had the most challenge being consistent with was the follow-up part… with… in terms of following up with the people that I already made some kind of initial connection with…. because I was like being pretty consistent in terms of putting out content on a regular basis… I was being pretty consistent with, you know like if somebody's like... like putting out every so often, you know, like invites reaching out to people to connect with me on various occasions and so forth... But when it came to, you know, having connected with someone, having had a talk with them about okay, this is how I can help you and then they're like, later, maybe kind of a thing... that sort of like when I would sort of lose my consistency in follow-up. Do you have any tips and make it more easy... And fun? Because like for me, I think the problem where I got into my head and I was overthinking it is that, I was like, you know, this person said, okay, no for now… but I don't want to be like one of those bothersome, you know, aggressive or whatever kind of people who are being too pushy and things like that... And so I will reach out to this person once or twice again, and then that's it. And in my head, I was like, you know, if I connect with them more than that, then I'm being too pushy, too aggressive… etcetera, etcetera... And that's the talk that I had that stopped me from doing any further follow-up.

JENNIFER: Yeah, absolutely. And that's so, so common... We all… we all let's say we often worry about being pushy or salesy or sleazy or icky, or whatever the word is... Like, you know, this is so, so, so common. So, first of all, I would say… one of the biggest tips that I have for people is to always ask permission, right... So, for example, if you're on a sales call, and you know, you're getting the concern of you know, the timing is not right or I don't have the money right now, you can say to them… Well, I absolutely understand that. And I wonder when would be a good time for me to reach out to you again? And would that be okay if I reach out to you again in a month or two? And if they say yes, then you can even put it on your calendar and say, okay, awesome, we will reconnect at this time… I will, you know… let's connect on Zoom… I'll send you a zoom link… whatever... But always asking that permission… would it be okay, if I reached out again to you? And if they say, No, I really don't want you to... It's probably a good indication that it's no forever. It's not just a no for now but it's no forever, right... But if you… if they say, yeah, absolutely, I'd love to reconnect with you in a month or two, then, you know, schedule that... And then it's not awkward, because it's already on the schedule. And if it's not a sales call, and maybe it's just somebody that, you know, maybe you've made that offer to them, would you like to get on a sales call? They'd say, you know, not right now, it’s not a good time for me... You could say, Okay, I totally understand that… you know, always respect for the clients at… and I would say to them, you know okay, well, you know, now's not a good time, would it be okay, if I reached out in, you know... in what, what would be a good timeframe for you… or something like that... but always like getting it from them. So that they're aware and it's not coming out of left field right. But I think most people are not, you know… unless your sales tactics are really sleazy for whatever reason, most people are okay with it... you know, I mean, they can always say no... And yeah, I think we just we overthink it, and we worry too much... And I don't think people really think that about us. I think we're in our own heads, and we're getting in our own way. So just again, get out of your head and think about your client and what they need. And you know, if you're on a sales call, you've already gotten lots of information about what that client really does need... And you can always say to them, you know, I really feel like I can help you with this. So why don't I reach out in, you know, a month? And how does that sound to you... So always giving them that, you know, that control of the situation… but you're coming from a place of service, you're coming from a place of wanting to help them with something. So you know, I would always challenge those thoughts. If you're really feeling like you're being you know, pushy... or you know, something doesn't feel right about that… always challenge those thoughts. Because it's likely that is just something you're creating in your head and not something that people are even thinking at all.

SAMIA: True, true... Okay, cool, cool, cool... Man, Jennifer, you give such amazing advice and such amazing insights... I can keep talking to you for a long time... 

JENNIFER: It's my pleasure.

SAMIA: And we need to start wrapping up again, for today... Do you have any last thoughts... Yeah, just any last thoughts you'd like to share?

JENNIFER: No, just if anyone's struggling with any of this, if you feel like you're, you know, kind of stuck in your head or stuck in your business, not sure what to do, wondering if maybe, you know, some of these thoughts are getting in your way of getting more clients and making more money in your business... feel free to reach out. I mean, I think after two episodes, they probably know in the show notes, where to find me… but I'm on Instagram a lot. And, you know, I do have a free coffee chat and a free Facebook group for you guys to come just to, you know, check out a little bit more about me… and I am here to help... So I absolutely love helping women grow their businesses. I think more... if there's more coaches and service providers on the planet, this is gonna be a much better place to be, so…

SAMIA: Indeed. I so agree with you on that... All right. So I just want to remind all of you who are listening to make sure you check the show notes because we will be dropping Jennifer's links in there so you can connect with her and get the help and support you need to get more clear and get more confident and consistent, and you know, all that good stuff...

JENNIFER: ...make connections...

SAMIA: Yeah, there we go.

JENNIFER: Oh, yeah absolutely. 

SAMIA: All right, so until we connect next time, I just wish you a lots and lots of peace and joy. :)