SAMIA: Cool! Yeah, so you have been working in the school system, you've been working with kids for over 30 years now I believe.

SAMIA: So you are an amazingly excellent resource for us to talk about this topic of creating more self-confidence in kids. What do you see as some of the big problems that our kids are facing that affect their self-confidence?

NEIL: Well, I think the schools are putting too much emphasis now on testing. A lot of parents I don't even think are aware why school now starts in like the second week of August rather than after labor day. And it's because of this emphasis on testing. It's test, test, test. And you know that's how schools are measured... our school districts are measured if they're successful or not. So there's a big emphasis on testing rather than, I think, the social emotional well-being of our students and also teaching students life skills that they can apply to their life now and when they turn our age.

SAMIA: Yes! Yeah, I definitely see how a lack of education in the context of life skills is a huge issue in our education system, and not just here in America, but globally. I actually never went to school here in America. I was like practically 18 when I immigrated here so I went straight to college. But I did go to school in India, in Pakistan, and even in the Middle East for a few years before we immigrated to America. And in none of those countries did we receive any significant life skills education, or just, you know, life wisdom education. I mean there was a little bit that we learned in the context of... like, in Pakistan, they forced you to go through religious studies classes, or rather I should say Islamic studies classes. And so they try to, you know, teach you some basics of the religion of Islam.

NEIL: Is that mandatory?

SAMIA: In Pakistan it is pretty much mandatory. But, you know honestly, my experience of going through those classes is that it did very little good for me... Like I got some basic knowledge and I learned some basic rituals and things. But what I found was really missing, and why it wasn't really helpful for me ultimately, is because I didn't truly understand what I was learning and why I was learning it. A lot of the emphasis was on just rote memorization, and just being able to reproduce accurately what my teachers told me on my exams and so forth, and...

NEIL: Well, I think that's traditional teaching here too in the United States. It’s just rote. And even our college system is set up that way... that, you know, you have a lecture up there and the professor talks for, you know, an hour to three hours depending on how long the course is. And you're taking notes and then you're getting tested on it. Or you have some type of project to do. There's no interaction between the professor and the students. That's starting to change now. But traditionally, you know, that's how our system was. And I'm surprised. I mean, I never learned how to do a checkbook in school. My father taught me. And I don't know about the countries that you were educated in, did they teach you even how to balance a checkbook?

SAMIA: No! Certainly not me, a girl. I never learned that even after I was out of school in those countries. Like, I graduated my high school in Pakistan. And I didn't know how to balance a checkbook. I didn't even have a bank account. I didn't... my gosh, no... I had practically no practical life skills in terms of if I had to go live on my own, I wouldn't have survived.

NEIL: And also like filling out a job application.

SAMIA: Oh no, not at all!

NEIL: In high school, I just applied for a job... I had no training in school on how to do that. And now they do it. I think they do it out of the language arts class in high school. But it's not a class... I mean, I think all these life skills should be a class. It should be an elected class rather than trying to do it out of your language arts class where you are... you know, taking a workshop. You know a lot of times the school counselors have workshops on how to fill out a job application, how to put your resume together, you know, doing mock interviews, filling out financial aid statements.

SAMIA: Yes, those are helpful, helpful things. But because they're not required, they're not part of the core curriculum, most of the students don't end up actually taking advantage of it. At least that's how it was for me in college. Like, well I started out my college career in the US, in Santa Monica College, which is a community college for those people who are not familiar with it.

NEIL: And this is also one of the better community colleges in California.

SAMIA: I love Santa Monica College. I absolutely love, love, love it. It changed my life for the better. I wouldn't be sitting here with you talking so comfortably and confidently if I had not had the experiences and the learning that I had in Santa Monica College... I mean that's where I really began to come into my own and develop my sense of my own individual self, and you know, my... I began to recognize myself as a leader. I began to see dreams of having an actual career, and you know, how I could make an impact in the world. All of that for me really started when I was in Santa Monica College. They have a lot of awesome resources on campus. They have a lot of very, very cool classes. I actually took a class there in financial literacy. And that's how I learned about credit cards, and how to buy a car, and you know, like all those type of things...

NEIL: But they should be teaching these skills in high school. Because some of our students don’t go on beyond high school for you know further education. They don't go to the community college, they don't go to the state college, or UC, or private college. They go to the workforce.

SAMIA: Yeah. --

NEIL: And another thing that just blows my mind is that we don't teach students how to be parents.

SAMIA: Yeah!

NEIL: The only way you learn how to be a parent is how your parents brought you up. And if you had a parent that was abusive or neglectful, what kind of role model do you have?

SAMIA: True, very true! I mean... and actually even before you can become a great parent, you have to become a great person who treats yourself with love and compassion and respect, you know. Like so many of us, we struggled... I know as a teen, I really struggled with my self-esteem, my self-confidence. And a big part of that for me was all the negative self-talk that I gave to myself, you know... I blamed myself, I judged myself, I criticized myself. And I was doing it in vicious, vicious ways.

NEIL: So, I wanted to talk about self-confidence because people talk about it but I don't think they understand it.

SAMIA: Yes.

NEIL: And I was listening, you know, to some TED talks, and some YouTube videos of some of the experts in the field like Jack Canfield who wrote the Chicken Soup Series. And he had some really good advice and I'd like to share that with our listeners today if I may.

SAMIA: Please, please, tell us.

NEIL: So he was talking about a lot of times we have negative memories locked in our brain. For example, if you get fired from a job that's ingrained in your brain, okay. Or if you go through an ugly divorce, or if you face some type of trauma, and if you were in New York when 9/11 hit... that's ingrained in your brain for life. I mean last week I think there was a series of specials on TV on 9/11, 20 years later. And the first responders that were there, you know, the police, firemen, paramedics, and so forth... they still get triggered today and they have post traumatic stress disorder. I mean from smells, sounds... These things trigger off memories, traumatic memories, that's ingrained in their brains for life. And so what Jack is suggesting is that we have to acknowledge our accomplishments. Too many times people aren't willing to share that. They think they're bragging or showing off. But it's important to acknowledge small accomplishments, small steps, that you make. For example, you know in school, if you're usually getting C's on papers and you could push it up and get a B on an essay, that's a small step accomplishment. Another one would be like losing five pounds, you know. If you can lose five pounds that's quite an accomplishment. A lot of people, you know, during new year's resolutions... Everyone makes these resolutions. And I would say 95% of the people after a month or two, they give up because they have unrealistic expectations. So if you could make it into small steps and chunk it, I think you'll be more successful. And that's what I do when I'm a swim coach or a swim instructor during the summer when I work with students. I break things down into simple little steps. I don't jump from a to z. I go from a to b to c. And I don't go to d until a kid feels comfortable in a, b and c.

SAMIA: Yeah! What are some of the specific steps that you teach when you're teaching swimming?

NEIL: Well, the first step is, you know, putting your face in the water. A lot of students for whatever reason don't like putting their face in the water. And especially, I think they get that from their moms... moms, don't hate me out there! But a lot of times I see kids holding their nose when they go underwater. Or they get… they want a nose plug on their nose. And I think they get that from their moms because I don't think dads would do that. So the first thing is learning how to blow bubbles underwater. And sometimes kids blow too much really hard. And then it goes, like, up their nose, and then they start choking and gagging... So I tell kids to think of like blowing out a candle. That's how much, that's how hard you want to blow. It's just, it's a, you know, a low blow bubble step I guess. And then once you can do that, the next step is learning how to glide. So it's just pushing off on the side, arms in front, you know. I tell the kids to pretend like you're Aquaman or Superman and just glide. Pretend like you're in the sky and you're gliding. And then the next step would be the flutter kick, learning how to do the flutter kick. A lot of times kids tend to bend their knees. So you want to show them how to try to keep their legs straight. And it... you don't even have to really kick that hard. It could be underwater, it doesn't even have to be above the surface. So like those are some of the steps that, you know, that I teach. But I think, I think, you could use those same principles in anything that you want to learn. You got to break things into chunks. You can't expect someone to, for example... I'm not the most computer literate person in the world. And I think it's important for students as well as teachers and adults to know your learning styles. So for myself, I am not an auditory learner. And my wife could vouch for that. A lot of times she doesn't think I listen or follow her directions. I'm a more visual, hands-on learner. I have to see it, and I have to do it hands-on in order for me to learn how to do something new. And I think it's important for students to know their learning styles. Because a lot of times teachers teach to their style. And that might not be the style that's most beneficial for the student to learn the new task.

SAMIA: That's right. And actually, I know of research that shows that, unfortunately, the way our educational system is set up, it's designed mostly for the benefit of people who are auditory learners. It's like you were saying earlier Neil... most of the traditional way of teaching is focused on... the teacher lectures at you, and you have to listen and take notes. And so that works really well for people who are auditory learners. But for people who are... what's that... where do you use...

NEIL: Visual? Kinesthetic?

SAMIA: Kinesthetic, yes! The kinesthetic learners are at the biggest disadvantage in this methodology. And actually there are way more people who are kinesthetic learners compared to auditory learners, or even visual learners. The largest chunk of the population is kinesthetic learners. And they are the least, they're the least well served in our educational system. Like even visual learners have some thought given to their learning style and needs in the traditional context. So for example, a teacher will usually... might have, you know, a PowerPoint or write some things down on the board. And that can help the visual learners. But what are we doing to help our kinesthetic learners? There's very few teachers who incorporate teaching strategies that are geared towards helping kinesthetic learners. And that's one of the reasons why so many kids in school struggle.

NEIL: And drop out.

SAMIA: Yeah!

NEIL: Because they don't have any success.

SAMIA: Yeah.

NEIL: So that's what I like in the high schools now is that they brought back the trades. And they call it a CTC. And I forgot what that stands for, but it's for the students that like want to learn how to auto shop, or the kids that want to do robotics, or kids that want to learn how to do graphic design. And I'm happy they brought that back because those type of students are kinesthetic learners, and they were getting frustrated. By middle school a lot of students were dropping out, especially in our inner cities. And those students already are at a disadvantage... especially with this COVID. I mean, I was hearing recently… during this COVID-19 pandemic where students were out of school for 16 months and were supposed to do distance learning, a lot of the inner city kids didn't even have access to computers or chromebooks. And if they did, they didn't have wi-fi for them. So they can’t, you know, get the lessons that the teacher was teaching.

SAMIA: Yeah, and it's crazy that, you know, the kids are struggling because of lack of resources, they're struggling because the teachers are not actually doing as good a job at teaching as they could be in terms of accommodating the different learning styles the children have, and so forth... But for the most part the kids don't recognize that. They don't realize that's why they're struggling. The system doesn't acknowledge that. And so, what you end up with is the kids struggle, and then it impacts their self-esteem, it impacts their self-confidence. And it's just... and how do you get them out of that? So what can we do?

NEIL: Well, the kids that are struggling... also they tend to act out because they don't understand what's going on.

SAMIA: Right!

NEIL: So they act out, and then they get kicked out of the classroom, and then they miss more instruction.

SAMIA: Right, it becomes a vicious cycle.

NEIL: And then it, you know, it deters the other students that want to learn too because these kids are distractions.

SAMIA: Right.

NEIL: And substitute, well substitute teaching, I've noticed... at least the two school districts that I'm subbing for, and they're both elementary ones, go up to middle school... Anaheim Elementary School District and Buena Park School District, is that they're using the white boards for the visual learners. They're doing like google docs and things so kids can actually visually see things on the board, they could hear the instructions of the teacher. So that's a good thing. But something that I'm really concerned about is that these kids are on these chromebooks and stuff. And there have been studies from psychologists for years, and I think writers can tell you this too, that using a pencil or a pen when you're writing... somehow it's ingrained in your brain. But when you're using a keyboard, that information doesn't stay ingrained in your brain. And so kids are missing out on that because they're... I'm shocked, and this is another skill I think kids should learn. Kids, can you believe this? And some parents don't even realize these kids are not learning how to handwrite anymore. And that was the skill when I was in school that you learned. You learned printing and handwriting... Now, either kids don't know how to do it, or their parents have to teach them because the schools aren't doing it.

SAMIA: I did not realize schools weren't teaching handwriting anymore, that's...

NEIL: No, because there's such a, there's such a, focus and demand on testing that the teachers are just pushing the skills that the kids need to learn so they can look good on the tests. It's all about testing, it's all about performance, you know. It's all about looking good either as a school or as a district as a whole.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah.

NEIL: So I wanted to go back... Jack mentioned, you know, on accomplishments. But I thought this was really a neat idea. I don't think I would have ever thought of this. I remember doing like a timeline in school. And this is kind of like the same exercise that he's suggesting is that you break up your life into three sections. So you can go from let's say your elementary school years, maybe to junior high. That could be one section. And junior high to high school could be another section. And then from, you know, college to your first job, maybe that could be another section. So he's suggesting three, so maybe you could even do four, you know, because then you could talk about middle age, and then you could have, you know, being a senior. That could be another section. But he talks about, and I think this is really neat, is to come up with a hundred different things that you have accomplished in your life and put them in each section. So for example, in elementary school, learning your multiplication tables, that would be under that. In middle school it could be writing an essay, or you know, deciding on maybe a possible career path that you want to follow, or you know, a science experiment that you know, that you can, you know the four steps of the science experiment… and I can't think of them offhand, but you know where you have a hypothesis, you test it out, maybe re-evaluate, and then retest again...

SAMIA: Yes.

NEIL: So that would be like a middle school thing. And then high school would be, you know, coming up with a, maybe a resume, or a portfolio of things that you have accomplished in high school... you know, maybe passing AP exams, or honor roll classes, or you know, writing an essay, or a persuasion paper, or speech, you know, being part of band, or a drill team... This would all be in your portfolio. And then in college... you know, I know that in college, being in education, I was going for my administrative credential and we started putting a portfolio together. So when you go for a job interview you could share this information with the interview panel. I think that's a marvelous idea that/what Jack came up with... is this concept of, like, having a timeline and dividing your life up, and putting down your accomplishments. And they don't have to be great things. And he was talking about like, you know, getting promoted to middle school, graduating high school, passing your driver's license, you know, getting your first job...

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I received two lessons from that - number one celebrate... celebrate every accomplishment whether it's big or small in someone else's eyes, or in society's eyes. Celebrate every accomplishment. And number two, like in the context especially of developing this kind of timeline for yourself, you want to get at least a hundred of them in. Because... I think that is something that's really important. I know as a Happiness Expert, one of the things that I work on with my clients is raising their gratitude awareness, or what I call tapping into our gratitude attitude, right. And one of the things that I find is that a lot of people really struggle to find things that they can be grateful for. Like, if I say, "Come, tell me 5 things you can be grateful for right now". A lot of people can't think of 5 things you know. They'll think of maybe one thing, two things, and then they have to think a lot to come up with the third, fourth, fifth thing... And if I say, "Tell me 10 things right now that you can be grateful for", most people can’t do it. And so I'm anticipating that when people start to create a timeline like this for themselves, and they have to think of a hundred accomplishments, some people might feel a little challenged by that number hundred. But don't give up! You know, like once you...

NEIL: Well, even try to do 10 or 20 to start off with.

SAMIA: Yes, exactly! Just start the process. And then the more you think about it, the more you practice this -- it's a skill, I think, the better you will get, and the more things you will begin to remember that you have accomplished. And you'll be able to add that to your list over time.

NEIL: Yeah, Steve Harvey talked about gratitude, you know. I like to talk about him on another podcast, about how he talks about success. And a lot of people aren't even aware of this, that he was homeless for three years. He was living on the streets, and he's not a very well-educated man... I don't even know if he passed, you know, completed high school. But yet he's very successful.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I love the topic of gratitude, and I would love to talk about it another time. And I'm keeping my eye on the clock for you and me Neil, and I see that we are running out of time for today. So any...

NEIL: We're still good, we're still good!

SAMIA: We're still good, we're still good... but we need to start thinking about what are some last thoughts that you would love to share right now?

NEIL: Wow! Okay, because I had a lot more I wanted to try to cover. But all right, let's go to this, let's jump to this one... I think this is really important… is to visualize success. Professional athletes do this all the time. They have sports psychologists that work with them. And in any type of big game, or any game, these players, they visualize their success before they go on the court, or they enter the field. For example, like ___________, before he even goes to the mound, he visualizes the whole game in his mind and him being successful... certain pitches you know, with the scattering report he knows certain pitches where the hitters are weak, he knows, you know, that he's going to throw a slider to this guy, a high fastball to this guy, a sinker ball to this guy... And he visualizes each inning, and what he wants to accomplish. And that's what makes him successful. Lebron James, you know for the Lakers, he's probably one of the best basketball players of all time... he visualizes success before he even gets on the court as well you know. Like you know, weaknesses in the other team, what he wants to try to take advantage of, how he's going to get his players on his team open so they'll have an open shot, you know, where he's going to be defensive so he can either possibly block a shot or steal the ball, or make that other/his opponent uncomfortable, and getting off awkward shot. So visualization, we can all use it. You don't have to be an athlete, you know. If you're going to give like your first speech in front of a crowd, let's say 50 people, you can visualize your speech before you go up there... you know, that you're going to be confident, that you're going to stand straight, that you're going to have your shoulders up, you know, that you're going to lock your eyes out into the audience, that the audience is going to be applauding you, that you're going to share knowledge and information that you have gained from whatever career or profession that you do, and that you know, everyone's going to benefit from your speech, including yourself, and you learn. You learn by trying. If you don't try... this is another key point, if you don't try, you're never going to get better at anything. And people are afraid. Kids today are afraid to fail, and failure... We don't emphasize in school that it's okay to fail.

SAMIA: Yes!

NEIL: That’s the only way you're going to get better, is by trying and failing. I think it was Kobe Bryant... I heard this from Steve Harvey, that... no it's Michael Jordan, and Michael Jordan is one of the best basketball players of all time too, you know. He won so many championships with the Chicago Bulls. And he was always the player that they would go to for the key shot. Well, he shot I think over a thousand, two hundred and forty six shots to try to win a game. And out of those, he may be made 146... people don't talk about all the misses he made. They talk about the ones that he made that had his team win.

SAMIA: Yes, that's so true, that is so true! I think that's another issue, this idea of failure, and seeing failure as a good thing... as part of the learning process. This is probably something we could also talk about in much, much, more depth the next time you join us. It's so important. And I must say our school system, like you said, is actually very much, I think, at fault that our kids are afraid of failing. Because we are the ones who emphasize testing. We are the ones who put grades on... and numbers on them. And then we say to them, "Hey if you don't achieve this grade, you don't achieve this number, then you're bad, you're doing bad, you are bad, you're a failure"... We put those labels on those kids and then...

NEIL: Well, we just recently... and it's going on right now, is, you know, the court case about those parents, the scandal about making up things to get accepted into prestigious colleges like USC and some other colleges... parents paid coaches to lie. Kids weren't even on these teams in college or high school, and they were lying to try to get their kid into these prestigious schools, because of the pressure of trying to be better than the Joneses.

SAMIA: That's right, that's right. And you know it, it's like you're, you're given this message again and again, that if you don't get the right grades, you don't get the right, you know, kind of success as it's defined, then you are a failure, your life is ruined you know. You won’t... you will never be able to, you know... if you won't get a good job then you won't make money, and then you'll never be happy because, in this philosophy, all your happiness depends upon your ability to succeed in these ways of, you know - first getting the good grades in school and college and getting the good job and then making lots of money... And it's all tied together. And so it's like failure at any level, at any stage, it's like the message is, your life is ruined if you fail. And so no wonder people are so scared of failing.

NEIL: Yeah, you're right on. Can I share this... do I have time to share this last thing?

SAMIA: Sure.

EIL: I saw this in a classroom when I was subbing. I think this is great. A lot of this, a lot of the schools you know because of this, you know, the COVID-19, are dealing with mental health issues. And they're trying to teach kids about mindset. And I saw this one chart, and I thought it was pretty neat. And I wanted to share it with your listeners. So this is a growth mindset. So instead of saying, instead of whatever, try thinking... "I'm not good at this", how about, think about, "What am I missing". "I give up". Instead of saying, "I give up", how about trying a different strategy. Instead of saying, "it's good enough", "Is this really my best work?". What about this... "I can't make this any better", instead of saying, "I can always improve". A lot of times you hear kids say this... "This is too hard!" instead of saying that, "This may take some time". "I made a mistake"... we were talking about failure... instead of saying, "Mistakes help us learn". Failure helps us learn people!

SAMIA: Yes!

NEIL: And you're saying just, you know... we're blaming the teachers. But I think parents are... should take some of this blame too. Because a lot of times they try to protect their kids from failing.

SAMIA: Right.

NEIL: So let me go on, there's only a couple more. "I can't do this" instead of saying, "I'm going to train my brain to learn how to do this". "I'm never going to be smart", instead say "I will learn how to do this", “If plan A doesn't work there's always plan B”, "My friends can do it and I will learn from them".

SAMIA: Awesome! I love this. Thank you so much for sharing that/those specific ways of reframing these pesky thoughts that can come into our mind... I'm sure people will really, really, benefit from that. I really appreciate your coming on today Neil and sharing so much excellent wisdom and advice with us. Thank you so much.

NEIL: Well, thank you, it's been a lot of fun. I hope we do it again, are we going to do it again?

SAMIA: I am game if you are.

NEIL: I'm game. I would love to be back.

SAMIA: Yay, awesome! All right, so thank you so much everyone for listening. And we will be back. And in the meantime, I wish you lots of peace and joy.