SAMIA: Hello Salaam Shalom Namaste Sat Sri Akal Aloha Holah Ciao Bonjour Buna and Privet! It is really really awesome to be with you again and I'm so looking forward to my conversation today with my guest that is Prachi Das… Prachi is a Spiritual Freedom Expert… And the last time we were together we had a really really amazing conversation about spirituality… the nature of spirituality... And today we are going to dig deeper into a very specific very very juicy issue... I say juicy because I think it's very interesting and I've been thinking a lot about it… And Prachi has been helping me think a lot about it in a very very much deeper way... So I'm so excited.... Prachi welcome...

PRACHI: Thank you so much... And it's always a pleasure talking to you... Because I really feel like you know the way we connect on this topic is something that opens up my mind even more… like I share something with you and you share something… like some history point is shared with me about subcultures etc. And it's always something new that we can try to fill which expands our knowledge… expands our way of seeing things... So it's very very good that we have been able to connect over this topic and you know have that sort of bonding about very similar views... And coming from very… variety of cultures I would say… like you've also been in India and now you were in the US. So you have different cultures that you've tasted and experienced... So from that perspective like you know comes out to be a more I would say... blossomed …you know point of view…

SAMIA: Yeah…

PRACHI: and definitely amazing to talk about these topics… So I'm glad to be here for a second time… Thank you for inviting me...

SAMIA: You're so so welcome… I'm so happy you're here.... And just so we're not being very mysterious about what this juicy topic is that we want to talk about today… It's all about boundaries… we are going to be talking about… about how we understand boundaries and why they're important and what kind of boundaries do we want to have and not have etc… So let's jump into it... And I would say my first question for you Prachi is... like can you tell me a little bit more about how you understand just the idea of boundaries… like as people in general understand… like you are spiritual freedom experts so you have a very unique perspective… but for people who are not grounded in the kind of spiritual perspective that you are... how do you see them understanding boundaries… Why are boundaries important to them…

PRACHI: Right… So you know boundaries… basically the concept itself may not have been... like you know… I have no idea how it originated… but I know like the way it is understood right now and that is what I sort of do not agree with… So right now it has become like this part of your identity that these are my set of boundaries and nobody can violate those boundaries etc… So my understanding of boundaries was basically that you are trying to protect yourself and you're trying to protect your identity… maybe you know you're trying to protect your emotions… your physical body... And that comes from a very strong like you know fear based thinking that there is something that is going to harm me… people are probably you know trying to harm me in whatever ways etc… And earlier… when I was going through… in my initial phases of healing where I was taking different modalities of therapy trying to find out you know… because I had gone through a lot of traumatic incidents even in my childhood and later on in my adulthood as well… So going through those therapy modalities initially like yeah definitely my coaches my healers they would tell me to have boundaries… and in that time probably that was required because I was very very vulnerable... And you know... not having any boundaries was just kind of keeping me taking on more shock waves in a way... 

SAMIA: Can you... Yeah... Can you give me an example of the kind of boundaries your therapists and counselors were telling you to have at that time that you tried and found helpful…

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PRACHI: ...yeah …so the boundaries like the conventional ones like you know how people are supposed to talk to me… what are the things that they say to me that they're like allowed to say to me… or things that might offend me or hurt me and that they're not supposed to say… and you know that people are supposed to respect me and love me… whatever like… and eventually I found that you know that was more about... sort of expecting from others not really like you know trying to change myself in a way... And I found that you know... if they don't do those things… if nobody offends me… if nobody hurts me etc. I am fine... But as soon as somebody does something out of the line so to say I am again in that place where I'm hurt and I'm upset and nursing the wounds… And what that told me was that the wounds are still there... So if the wound is still there, what did my healing do… I didn't feel like my healing did anything... And so that from there I already had this sort of... kind of epiphany that you know maybe I have to think from the perspective that how can I become a person that does not get hurt no matter what the other person says or does or whatever right… So that was already something that was coming into my mind but it got reinforced when I was working with another coach and she said to me that… and she did not use the word boundary…. But she said to me that you have to become that person… the kind of person no matter what anybody says to you… does to you… you are not damaged physically mentally emotionally… Then I thought that yes this is what I already had in mind... And this is what is really going to change… Because I come from the spiritual perspective right… So in the spiritual perspective there's this concept of inclusion… that we are all one… And when we're all one and then we don't try to control the other person… So I really felt like you know whenever we are coming from the perspective that somebody else can harm me that's a very… like separation mindset… very fear-based mindset... And it’s a very strong like survival instinct… and survival instinct will keep you in that fear base... that you know every time I have to be on guard… every time to you know like wear some kind of armor… And the very word boundary basically feels like you know you are sort of having some kind of wall around you whatever right… Now from a non-spiritual perspective how I understood this was like whenever we talk about the parasympathetic nervous system versus the sympathetic nervous system… so when you are in that survival instinct… when you're on guard all the time… there is a sense of danger… pertinent danger…

SAMIA: Yeah… 

PRACHI: Right… What that does to us is it puts us in the fight flight freeze faun… whatever you call it… that sort of mode... And that kind of compromises a lot of things in your physical body… it like you know you're probably your muscles will get the oxygen… your main organs will not get the oxygen… you will be producing more stress hormones... So your body is constantly you know stressed out… it's thinking like you know where's that danger coming from… How am I protecting myself… Do I have to run… Or do I have to fight… like you know all of those kinds of things and that like... perpetrates your trauma… perpetrates the wounds… And that does not really allow you to heal… And to be healing or to be healed you will have to switch to the parasympathetic which is the rest and digest… where your body's like okay there is no danger... And now… which is basically what we do when we go to sleep... But then when you are in that sort of fear-based thinking and you're anxious and your mind is going in different ways even when you're sleeping your body's not able to like rest and recover and restore good health…

SAMIA: Yes... So you actually made me think of something... when you were giving these examples... that perhaps the reason... like for example when you were going through the counseling and therapy process… the reason that the counselor was recommending you create certain boundaries and you found it helpful to a certain extent in that context was not so much… it's like... you put up a boundary and the boundary itself isn't healing... The boundary itself isn't able to do anything to heal you… Like... it's just a boundary right… It's just a boundary… 

PRACHI: It’s like the bandaid I would say… 

SAMIA: Yeah… but like what I was thinking of is that you know like… what's going on behind the boundary… And maybe the hope is that we will put up this boundary that’ll separate… create some separation between us and what is on the other side to... you know we perceive that on the other side is what's dangerous to us… what is hurtful to us... And so on this side... that... source of danger is not present... And so that space just gives us the time and the opportunity to be able to relax and rest… And so then you know that will allow us the time we need and the space we need the capacity we need to be able to heal… but just having a boundary in and of itself of course wouldn't do anything... So it's like once you… even if you do set up a boundary but if you continue to remain in that state where you know you're stressed… you're feeling afraid… in danger… and you're not able to rest and relax or rest and digest as you said… then no healing can take place... So the boundary in itself then... you know... I mean in itself by itself it cannot help you heal…

PRACHI: It doesn't serve its purpose…

SAMIA: Yeah…

PRACHI: It's kind of like you can think of it in the sense of like a bandaid or something... Let's say that you have put a bandaid on… So the healing is happening because your body knows how to heal right… your body knows naturally how to heal and restore health... But if you are like pulling it up and you're constantly seeing has it healed…has it healed… Oh nobody you don't touch it… don’t touch it …or like always trying to be like okay… even though the bandaid is there you're still on guard and you're still trying to see that okay nobody touches it… nothing goes in it etc… So there's that sort of you know maybe a fear or whatever… like in manifestation people say that you know if you keep thinking Oh is it manifesting… Is it manifesting… it's less likely to manifest… And if you just think yeah it's manifesting and let it go it will manifest …like you know in that sort of way probably people will understand like that... The other thing was you know that kind of trying to control somebody else instead of controlling your own emotions… instead of controlling your own behaviors... So I really felt like you know if it's always about controlling others… other people have power... Because in spirituality there is this huge concept of being in your own power… knowing that you are a creative being… knowing that you are sort of you know deciding where the life takes you… where… which direction you are moving in… Whereas when you are thinking about… Okay other people have the power so I have to control them... So it's more like you know you are trying to… it's like a tussle… you are trying to be on a particular path but then other people sort of try to control your path... And so it's very very difficult for you to evolve in a spiritual sense because you are kind of stuck in survival instinct somewhere...

SAMIA: Yes…yes...Yeah… Because one of the primary goals of spirituality is for us to raise our consciousness beyond the needs of our body... And of course the survival instinct is such a strong need of our physical selves... But I think you know like when you begin… the more you begin to tune into that spiritual perspective... and you begin to see yourself as a spiritual being… you know a very different reality begins to emerge because your soul... you know from the spiritual perspective it's indestructible... It cannot be harmed… it cannot be killed... You know like no one can destroy it… stab it.. murder it… etc… You know so...

PRACHI: No matter what they do to your body…

SAMIA: Yeah it makes me...

PRACHI: Actually that reminds me of two things… like there was this one book that I read which was "Can't Hurt Me" by David Goggins... And so he talks about like you know how he actually put himself in those situations... Like even though as a kid he was really like fed up of all the bad things that happened to him… all the trauma that he had to go through... But still like once he decided that he wanted to be a Navy Seal he took on that challenge… like you know no matter what they put him through… hell week… and you know the way he described everything.. and even after going through the hell week after becoming a Navy Seal… again he put himself in those situations where like his body was challenged over and over… his mind was challenged over and over etc… So how you perceive it… right... So if I perceive it as something which is danger it sort of weakens me… But if I see it as something empowering it will strengthen me... So there are a lot of these Shaolin cultures or whatever like where people they actually hurt themselves or they do very very intense like you know physical practices where they are strengthening the body... So it's like you know the more you hurt the body it will become strong… whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger… Right... So it's a little bit about the perception also... And the other thing I wanted to share was like that there was a story about Buddha... And there was this person he comes to Buddha and he's like you know angry at Buddha and he's insulting Buddha and everything... And he goes on and on and on... And then when he stops and he looks at Buddha all calm and everything he says… How can you still be calm… like you know I'm angry at you... You have to… you know… you have to be angry as well... And the Buddha simply says that you know it is your anger and I do not receive it... So again it was like that choice… it was I feel like you know it was somewhere about that choice… making that conscious choice that does this harm me.... So I am in control… I am in power of my body… of my perception… of my energy etc… So that is something… and David Goggins in his book talks about callousing of the mind... It's not just the body but also the mind... So the mind keeps telling him to sort of you know give up or not do that because it is dangerous… But you have to bring that awareness that you know that is the tendency of the mind… And as soon as the mind says that I'm becoming aware and I'm still going and doing it if I… I feel like that is actually going to make me stronger... So you have that choice… And if you kind of give in to the survival instinct or if you give into this sort of thinking that you know whatever my mind is telling me right now is the right thing then you are not able to go beyond that… because the… in spirituality we understand that the mind is just a tool right…

SAMIA: Yeah

PRACHI: ...the mind is not the end …like you have the physical body and the mental body and the energy body and you have a higher self…which is a spiritual aspect of you right… So the mind is not what is controlling you… people are not what is controlling you... So you have to bring that back to the spiritual aspect of the soul… that the soul is in control of everything… And the soul doesn't get harmed… the soul cannot be stabbed… the soul cannot be you know in any way harmed… get killed or anything… so there is really no need to be afraid of anything...

SAMIA: Yes you know... because… oh my gosh... when we think about the soul is indestructible… cannot be harmed etc... but you know a lot of people… I can just imagine this… who are listening to us right now they'll be like… but our bodies can… you know like it's a reality of our lives that someone can punch me… someone can stab me or shoot me… and I will bleed...

PRACHI: Yeah

SAMIA: ...and get bruised and might get broken bones… and who knows what other damage can occur to my body… It's a reality of our lives... And like I could even die… like my body can perish and die… And so you can be very philosophical and say… Oh my soul can’t die… But my body certainly can die… And so what are you saying… It's like… does my body not matter… Should I not value my body… Should I just let someone kill me… So to speak… like how do you respond to someone… someone's concern for their… like literal life…

PRACHI: Yeah... So I think I would say in that matter that you know not every punch… not every attack is going to kill you… So every situation is unique... Every situation is new… every person is new… So when we come from this perspective that no one can even touch me because you know it's going to hurt me… in a way you become I think soft... So there's this concept nowadays people are talking about that the current generation is becoming very soft... And like I gave those examples where people do that to themselves to sort of strengthen themselves… so it's a little bit about perception also that how do you perceive that punch… There are people who go into wrestling as a profession… like they're doing that day in and day out... And will they think that they don't care about the body… they definitely care about their bodies… they take care of the body… they probably go much much more beyond what we do to take care of our bodies right… So it is about perception... Now definitely if you perceive that somebody is going to kill me and you don't want to die… in that moment you are going to stop that attack… you are going to save yourself… doesn't mean that you know you are always saving yourself… that every time every kind of attack is going to kill you... So my concern is also from the perspective that when we set boundaries… or we make something like a concrete thing… it's like we are… I'm always going to behave like this… people are always going to be like this.... So there's a limitation sort of... it limits my capacities… limits my experiences... So you know I kind of realized this while I was in the trauma… coming from the trauma… coming from the fear-based thinking… even like good people would seem bad to me because I was always suspicious… But once I was able to heal and I was able to let go of the thought that you know they can hurt me or they are going to hurt me they're thinking of hurting …I was able to appreciate that you know they are much more than somebody who can punch me.... Right… They are much more than somebody who can say a bad word to me and upset me instantly...

SAMIA: Yeah...

PRACHI: That was also about that choice and that empowerment… And...

SAMIA: Yes and that's a very excellent point... And you also made me think about... you know for example... some of the people that I admire the most are people who are committed practitioners of nonviolence… like for us as Indians you know of course we know Gandhiji… In America you know we have Martin Luther King's example… Then there's Nelson Mandela in context of the South African history... And you know like throughout history actually in multiple cultures across time... you know you can find examples of these figures of people… you know even people like Jesus… you already mentioned the Buddha's example… you know they were like so deeply committed to the practice of nonviolence… where to the point that… I don't know if this is actually like you know a real saying of Gandhiji or if it's actually just something that I was watching... like a biopic of Gandhiji… And this was a dialogue that they had him saying in the movie... So I don't know if it's a real quote or if it was just in the movie... But basically Gandhiji says... you know there are many issues for which I'm willing to die… you know… but there is no issue for which I'm willing to kill... You know and... so like when he said there's many issues that I'm willing to die… he was talking about issues where you know these are issues where... like there is grave injustice going on… you know like for example at that time of course in Gandhiji his lifetime the big issue that they were fighting… was for freedom... for independence from colonialism right… But it's not just about or there's a foreign power that's come to rule over us... It's about the injustice that and the oppression that was being... that the people were being subjected to... And to be able to stand up and say "No this is not acceptable." I mean that's a kind of a boundary isn't it… that they were drawing that... the people were drawing that they were like… No we are not going to tolerate injustice and oppression... We're not going to stand and allow for people to treat us as less than human… and exploit our land and our people… and so on and so forth... So clearly they were… they were in their own way… they were drawing boundaries... And one of their boundaries I would say was that you know just like Gandhiji said… he was like there are many many things for which I'm willing to die but there's nothing for which I'm willing to kill… So for me that's a kind of a boundary you know…

PRACHI: Yeah… I know again like for most people the logical thing was that we are going to take up arms and we are going to fight back… we are going to kill the other party right… But for him... again it was a matter of perception… right… How does he perceive that I can behave in the situation... So I have a choice... It's not that what everyone is doing… So I have to do that… Or just because the other person is hurting me so I have to hurt back… right… Now... that is something that shows like I don't know if he had any other precedent like if he was following somebody else or if he was coming from his own thinking… thought process… but I really find that you know in Indian culture there's this… I don't know if it's Indian or Eastern philosophy… there's this concept of like you know coming from memory versus coming from intellect… So whenever you sort of say that you know this situation was like this and I behaved like this... So every situation I have to behave like that… right… So in a sense you are going back to your memory... and you are repeating what happened in the past… so you're kind of perpetuating the past as well in a way… Right… Whereas when we come from intellect and we proceed which is basically the difference between reacting and responding right… So you assess that this situation this person this word this context is different and unique… And I can think of a new way of behaving or responding or a different solutions to this situation… right... And also like you know this reminded me of something I’m kind of forgetting… But anyway like you know another example that I was thinking of… like I was following Gary Vee… who’s very popular on social media right… So he has a very like noticeable tendency to keep using the F word again and again... And I see in the comments also when this was happening with me also… I don't like the word… I don't say it… I was kind of you know… why does he say it again and again… so I was thinking of like you know unfollowing him… I didn't want to hear that word over and over... So somebody… like a lot of people ask in the comment that you should stop saying the word… It is offensive or it is bad... And in one of the videos he actually addressed that... And he said that you know if it is triggering you it is about you... It's not about me...

SAMIA: Yeah…

PRACHI: Right… So you think why is it triggering you and what you can do about it… Because you can see like you know so many people around you use that word... And if you keep going to everyone and say that you shouldn't use the word because it is triggering me… it is not their responsibility... It is your reality that it is triggering me so I should think about it...

SAMIA: Yeah... Yeah... I mean there is certainly something to be said for... you know… us trying to create an environment in our surroundings… in our culture… that we believe is more peace promoting… that is more respectful towards everyone… you know... And at the same time you know what you're saying… I agree with you that the part that where we take offense at certain language or whatever… that really is more a reflection of us and what we're going through… because... Like I have had this issue also where you know I'm a survivor of sexual abuse myself… And the first time… like actually you know before I came to America honestly I never even heard the F word... And after I came to America I was hearing it and I didn't know what it meant... And then one day someone told me that it basically… the word means to rape… and so when I understood it means to rape and you know immediately as a trauma survivor… as a sexual abuse survivor… I was like oh my god that is so horrible... Like rape is such a... I mean it's… I mean I can't find a word bad enough to like describe… You know like it's a crime… it's like an atrocity… It's like so… like... when I... went through my experience of sexual abuse I felt like it damaged my very soul... You know I really felt like that... And so… and for decades I was suffering because of how traumatized I was because of that… and like… and then when I thought from that perspective and I thought about people just saying so casually "Fuck you"... But you know like in whatever context they use the "F" word right… I'm like how can people do that… do they not understand what they're saying… How can they joke about it… How can they use it so carelessly and casually… You know where it's like... but that's the thing that ultimately I realized that most people… that as a matter of fact are not thinking about it in the way that I learned to think about it …as you know referring to this idea of rape and then associating that with the trauma that I went through as a survivor of sexual abuse... Most of them are not thinking about it… they're using it... 

PRACHI: Just because… they're just using it from a very different place of consciousness and with a very different intention… So once I sort of began to put that in perspective... then I stopped getting so triggered by hearing the word… And now I will you know like I can... sort of hear different people say it in different contexts… Like I just said the word… but there are contexts within which I hear it and I'm like oh this is actually an appropriate use of the word... And there are other contexts where I'm like... you know this person is just being totally careless and not thinking about the meaning of what they're saying or they have a very different meaning to it from how you know it was meant to be originally... and so forth…

SAMIA: Yeah… exactly… yes…

PRACHI: yeah…

SAMIA: That is another thing which kind of keeps us in a sort of you know traumatized or wounded state which is the meaning that we attach to it… right… And if I were to give you examples of the kind of words that... here in my local area people use... they are even more specific… like I don't want to say words obviously like your listeners might not even understand… But they are more about like you know raping your sister or you're raping your mother… like they have very very specific… those kind of words that they use... And they use it so openly and so casually and again like maybe they don't know the meaning… just they've heard somebody else use it and it's like in the younger culture maybe it's perceived as cool to say it… maybe they hear the rappers use those words and that's why they have just picked it up or whatever… Or maybe it is like again they are coming from a place of being hurt themselves right…

PRACHI: Yeah…

SAMIA: So it is possible that they are you know just venting out their own passive aggressiveness whatever…

PRACHI: Right…

SAMIA: So those things are there… so we have to like… obviously we can't change their perception… we can't go and tell them that you need to stop saying this… which is what a lot of people are doing nowadays… but you need to change your perception that what that person is saying is about them it is not about me... right…

PRACHI: Yeah yeah… And also to be… like if I was to talk about this… the use of such language… I would talk about it in my context now... Like I would say you know just like I did right now… I would say you know this is what I learned the word means and this is my experience as a trauma survivor… you know as a survivor of sexual abuse… And so hearing people joke about rape… it's... you know… I find it to be a very very serious issue and not something that should be joked about because… And then you know you can you know… and then I can lay out more reasons for why I think so… Because you know I think the use… for example the use of such language in such a casual manner… thoughtless manner… by so many people… it's reflecting a bigger problem in our society where we are actually living in a rape culture… where so many aspects of abusive behavior are normalized... Like they're so... it's become so common… these behaviors… these practices have become so common… people have become desensitized.... And it… they perceive it as very normal… right… and so that gives people a sense of permission… Like most people still will respect other people's boundaries you know and treat them with respect and so forth… to… beyond… and stop once they get to a certain point… But there will always be those who will experience this kind of normalization and this kind of permissiveness at this level… and then they will take it beyond what is… beyond what is just... let's say to a point where it becomes oppressive… to a point where you know you're now treating someone like an object and causing suffering and causing hurt... for… for the other persons… And so you know like I can share all of that from my perspective and be like you know… so for all of these reasons I do not use this language and I do not support the use of this language… And so far as I have any influence... like all my friends… my family… I will encourage you to not use that language… But at the same time I understand that it's not for me to control other people's behaviors… And so if they continue to choose… like if they hear me and they still continue to choose to use that language that's up to them… Then you know …then I can make my own decision about how I want to interact with them or not… But you know I will also not allow it to become like something that you know begins to bother me and like that I'm obsessing over and destroying my inner peace because of it...

SAMIA: Yeah exactly… and you said the word like choose… they can choose for themselves… So even we have the choice… like you know so do I let this bother me or do I let this affect me in any way positive or negative… right… And that also goes on to like you know sort of again... bring that power inside of me… that definitely like there are things that probably know on a national level or a global level that we probably need to do because maybe you know this is showing that there is as a collective… there is a lot of anger in people and the violence and all of these things have become desensitized like you were saying… which is why we see like wars happening etc… you know... So maybe but then like... as a individual… if that doesn't happen… can I really keep pinning on that that you know it has to happen and unless that happens I'm going to stay upset and I'm going to stay traumatized etc…. So you take control… you take back your power and you say that you know it is my choice that no matter what others are doing …even like the masses you know …if even if the masses are behaving in that particular way and it's a very minority of people that are behaving in a compassionate way or deciding to choose to not get affected by what the masses are doing… I will still exercise that choice... I will still exercise my power and my free will to you know be happy instead of being upset all the time...

PRACHI: Right right… and this was like a beautiful thing that you have pointed out last time where you know… so the boundaries that we are creating as people who are spiritually aware and spiritually grounded… like also as it was beautifully demonstrated in the example that you gave of the Buddha... It's like the boundaries we are creating are not focusing on what other people do or don't do… the boundaries that we are creating are focusing on what I am going to think… what I'm going to say and do or not do… and how I will… what feelings I will choose to cultivate within myself or not you know... So the… I do have boundaries… spiritual people do have boundaries… but you know from a place of spiritual grounding we can see that the best boundaries… the wisest boundaries to have are the ones that are focusing on our own self… rather than… on regulating our own self… rather than trying to regulate other people...

SAMIA: Yeah... And you know in the Eastern Philosophy it's more about like you make your energy stronger... So I really like this concept of when you know some people say that I was in the presence of this master or this Guru and just being in their presence made me feel calm or made me feel joyful... And you know what that says is like they have worked so much on themselves that their energy is now positively impacting others… And so when you really think about boundaries like you know you have this physical body so in a sense you already have a boundary but then when you look but from a spiritual energetic perspective you have an aura... So how much control can you exercise if somebody else’s aura and your aura is already interacting and you don't even know… and like you know a lot of times these things happen that their thoughts… their anxiety can you know… like I'm sure empaths would understand… there's somebody else's anxiety or pain you know I'm able to feel even without them you not touching me or anything... So those are things that when you understand and you do that inner work... do your yoga meditation practices daily and your energy is so strong that… that is like the best boundary I would say… right… your energy is so strong that other person's negativity cannot even touch you... 

PRACHI: Yes... 

SAMIA: The other person... 

PRACHI: You can choose not to receive the negativity like the Buddha said... 

SAMIA: Yeah... And then instead of being the receiver of insults you become a giver of joy in a way… right… think from that perspective... 

PRACHI: Yeah... So you choose not to receive the insults… you choose to... and I think that also sort of goes back to… I think that… that brings up two things for me... Number one is like I think why... or you know like going back to the idea of the practitioners of non-violence that I admire so much… one of the reasons why I admire them so much …because you know I …this show is called make change fun and easy you know …and our audience is changemakers you know …and the people who listen to this show by and large I believe you are changemakers too right... and changemakers… I count myself as a changemaker… we are people you know who are committed to not just creating change in our lives… but we also have a commitment to create massive positive change in the world around us… and do good in the world around us... And so when I think about well what is the very best way that we can create change in the world around us… you know when I think about what's the most fun and easy way to create change around us... the answer for me is non-violence… because you know it's like..  like some of the examples that we were sharing earlier… like let's go use the example of people using language that is offensive… I will say that in quotes… offensive... 

SAMIA: Yeah...practicing non-violence in thought and words also…

PRACHI: Yes… Exactly… And so it's like when we think about how… like what... Okay if someone uses the f* word in front of me… then I respond to them with anger and I blame them and I judge them as doing something really bad… and maybe even being really bad because they've just used that language… I mean is that likely to inspire them to change… is that likely to motivate them to change their behavior and their use of language… Versus if I remain peaceful and calm and I explain to them why I find the use of that word problematic… just like I did right now... I mean I'm still not saying that my communicating with that person in that moment will for sure 100 percent convince them or motivate them or inspire them if I do it peacefully and calmly... But I think doing it peacefully and calmly I have a way better chance that they will actually be able to hear what I am saying and feel some compassion for my perspective… feel some empathy for my perspective… And I think I have a way better chance of inspiring them to think about changing their behavior coming from that energy than from the energy of anger blame shame judgment etc… 

SAMIA: And then you know that is a better way of kind of controlling people right… If you really want to control people… control them with love… control with them with you know very strong and powerful and positive energy… Going back to talk you know about those masters… those gurus… like you don't have to do anything… just by their presence… by their very presence… people around them are changed or controlled or whatever… like in a positive very very positive way... So how good is that instead of trying to you know say to them that you have to change… you have to behave like this… etcetera etcetera… And then in that situation also you would find that a lot of people choose to not be affected by the guru's energy… they kind of… you know if they have that fearful thinking or the suspicious mindset that… no these gurus are fake… etcetera… they don't receive… Like I hear a lot of people with Sadh Guru and himself… like I hear a lot of people say that you know I was in his presence and I was changed and my life changed etc… just by being in his presence... And there are all of these people who would say that I met Sadh Guru… it didn't do anything to me… Like so that is again like you know subconsciously you made that choice of not being affected by him... So we have a choice in every moment… It is only that either we are making that choice subconsciously or consciously… And either we are making advice based on fear or based on love… And definitely from a special perspective we always want to be in love...

PRACHI: Yes yes... because like for me the essence of spirituality is the recognition of our oneness… of our underlying oneness… you know the oneness of our spirits… the oneness of the energy that forms us… that creates us… that we… you know… that we are... And when we recognize that oh my gosh you and I underlying all of these differences and so forth we're actually one you know... 

SAMIA: Yeah... 

PRACHI: That is also the essence of love... To feel that and to experience that oneness… really you know that is the experience of love… and so really it's I think it's like such a beautiful beautiful… like realization to have that you know it's like wow... like yeah... like essentially… like the reason Gandhiji said I'm not willing to kill for any… any issue… any cause… is because you know he was like spiritually grounded in this realization that you know we're all one... So like by hurting someone else we're directly or indirectly just hurting yourself… an aspect or a part of yourself… you know... And so it's like… no… why perpetuate the hurt… A much better approach... 

SAMIA: Yeah... 

PRACHI: Is to like you know approach the problem from a perspective of… I want to heal… I want to heal the hurt… how can I heal the hurt... And so you can only like ultimately heal… you know… through love… with love… you know...

SAMIA: Yeah like there's this adage that you know Hurt People Hurt Other People… And Healed People Heal Other People… right... 

PRACHI: Yeah… 

SAMIA: That is definitely very very true... And then like you know… and I forgot what I was about to say... but again like you know like you said that… it is sort of like you… and sort of when you transcend that aspect that you know this body is different… yeah I was going to say like… we are moving from the 3D consciousness to 5D consciousness... So there's this huge conversation around that... everyone is talking about that... And even though you want to sort of like you know enjoy the very very good aspects of the 5D consciousness… people are still sort of you know… stuck in that separation which is a 3D consciousness… And you really have to realize that if we kind of let go of that thinking… of that sort of identity… to be able to transcend and go into that 5D... So it again comes down to like you know it is a choice... Obviously you can choose to be in separation and you can choose to go into that oneness… sort of like you know inclusion and expansion of your energy etc... Because if you want to keep boundaries your energy cannot expand… It's sort of like… it's not just words… it's not just… it's also about the energy... 

PRACHI: Right… right... So when we think about spirituality… it's not just this particular body that we are looking at right… So it also goes with that concept that you know… the oneness is an actual thing… like you are in oneness… or you are in that spirituality… or you are in 5D... Whereas if you are subconsciously still holding on to your old identity no matter how much consciously you say that I want to be that… you really can't be… So you have to really bring that subconscious thing into your consciousness and say that… okay… now here you know I need to make that change… or I need to make that choice… or I need to be in my power in this particular way and that is what is going to sort of you know make me limitless in a way... 

SAMIA: Yes yes… I mean a boundary is literally about creating separation… it's literally… every boundary that you set up… like literally creating separation you know... And so how can you achieve oneness and unity with all that is when you're literally deliberately creating separation upon separation upon separation by creating that boundary upon boundary upon boundary… Yeah... 

PRACHI: That actually reminds me of something that I had mentioned in the first podcast that we did together… if you remember the Tongan meditation right... So you said any kind of boundary... So even when Buddha says that you know this is your anger and I did not receive it… but there is this practice where you actually receive it... If you remember I had mentioned that...

SAMIA: Yes... yes yes… I’m starting to remember that…

PRACHI: Breathe in the pain of the other person...

SAMIA: Yeah… and you send love… right… Like the ultimate sort of healing… ultimate sort of like the love where you are… and I think there's this concept of energy transmutation… So a lot of people talk about transmuting energy but they only think about that okay the anger in me I’m transmuting it into love… the pain in me I’m transmuting it to a higher wisdom or something… But how does that like you know… how… what kind of an expanded consciousness would really think about… let me take the other person's pain and transmute it into love... So that was very... 

PRACHI: Right… Well but you see that's the thing… the thing is that now the deeper you think from the spiritual perspective… the thing is... if you recognize that you have the power to transmute your pain… but then by... So then I also have the power to transmute your pain… because you and I are actually one… in so far as we are one… if I have a power to transmute my pain and you and I are one then I also have the power to transmute your pain... So it's more about how can we connect… how can I connect with you at that level where I can actually realize recognize be conscious be aware of our oneness… where I can experience our oneness… you know… and that can only be done by being spiritually grounded… we cannot experience that level of oneness as long as we are focused on the level of our existence in our bodies… in our physical bodies… Because our physical bodies… yes... you know… It's like you're sitting in India… I don't even know how many miles and like oceans away from me... but… 

SAMIA: Yeah.... we connect our consciousness... we are one… you know... And like I'm actually working with spiritual teachers… and like literally we are practicing connecting with our spiritual spiritual consciousness… you know and my teacher is sitting like literally like my teacher sitting in Indonesia… and she connects like and she's teaching and I'm learning to do this as well… like literally connect with my consciousness… and they'll be like ah Samia I can feel you have… you're holding something… in your back there is a tightness that I can feel… I want you to breathe into it and do this and do that and relax that… And I follow… And sure enough there is that tightness in my back... and I follow the… follow the guidance and… ahhhh…

PRACHI: Yeah... 

SAMIA: You know… and like they can’t… they're not seeing… seeing me sometimes... 

PRACHI: They're consciously choosing to feel your pain...

SAMIA: Yes... 

PRACHI: Not that... 

SAMIA: I feel... 

PRACHI: ...not that you told that person that I have this pain… they have you know let go of all the boundaries… they're actually you know connected with you and felt your pain and then told you that you know this is the nature of your pain... That is what I really feel like maybe that's another level of being healed or being powerful in a way... 

SAMIA: Being healed… being powerful... and I think it's really just about being more and more connected with our spiritual selves and acting from that place of consciousness of our spiritual identity and our spiritual self... yeah…

PRACHI: Yeah... absolutely… And you know one thing I would like to you know… even though you asked me to do this… but I want to kind of you know recommend to people that you should have some or the other physical workout routine… either yoga or gyming...  Because not only does that aid your healing like you know it just doesn't make you physically stronger… there's also this aspect of like usually we think of memory and intellect as something to do with this area… like the brain the mind everything is here… whereas it's actually everywhere… your body has memory… your body has intelligence right... So when we continue to stay in that like you know… this is how I always behave… this is what I always do… we are like I said before also… we are perpetuating the past… like that memory is still in there... So when I do any kind of physical exercise… yoga is definitely the best in the sense that it is not just about the physical… it kind of you know unifies the mind body soul right… but even if you do gym… like you know you can do cardio… you can do running… you can do any kind of exercise… that will help you remove that past memory from your bodies or from your tissues… from your organs… So this is something that a lot of people don't really consider when they think about healing… A lot of people I hear they only talk about meditation when they talk about spirituality...

SAMIA: Yeah...

PRACHI: So I had this session yesterday with Sadh Guru where he said that you know if you just keep doing meditation and if you just keep focusing on like the mind… the third eye… a lot of people really focus on opening the third eye etc… what happens is that your… one part of you is becoming advanced and the other part of you is remaining...

SAMIA: Yes...

PRACHI: ...backward or like weak and sort of not healing right… So you have to think of it from a holistic perspective which is why it has to be like the physical… the mind-body and soul connected… can't be… the healing… true healing cannot be on just one level…

SAMIA: Yes... oh my gosh... Oh my gosh… okay... I have to force myself Prachi to stop talking to you right now because… oh my gosh… you just brought up something that I think is… like we can have a whole other… other conversation on… but we won't be able to do it justice right now… we're like out of time... So do you have any last last words of wisdom as we wrap up…

PRACHI: Okay… that's very difficult to kind of wrap up in one sentence because it's such a huge vast topic… and every time I learn a new piece of it... it just opens up my literally like makes me feel like my eyes are more open now… So yeah... don't limit yourself… is one thing I would say… Because every time we have like limiting beliefs or we have like these boundaries or we have like a set way of doing things etc… we are limiting ourselves… as like you know humans… we are limiting our experience of other people... Like I said that you know you can probably choose to be suspicious of even the best of the person and not be able to perceive the goodness in them... So really like you know go beyond... let go of all the ideologies that you have so far… just maybe momentarily… let go of the boundaries… let go of your identity… let go of whatever you think about the world etc... and just try to be in this sort of space where you are just perceiving… you're just looking at things… not attaching meaning to it based on what you have gone through before or what you've heard from other people etc… So I think that is a very very important thing to do on a regular basis...

SAMIA: Yeah... and the only reminder that I will give is actually something that you mentioned like early on… is like that you know... I see it a little bit you know… this practice of boundaries and taking on this more spiritual perspective of boundaries… as a little bit of an issue of growth and being sensitive to where you are in your healing process… As Prachi you had given your own example... when you were in the earlier stages of your healing process… you know you actually found it helpful to create some physically oriented boundaries… and think about boundaries from that perspective of creating that physical safety for yourself… So if someone is you know at that stage of their healing... if you're at that stage of your healing process… if you're at that stage of your growth where you know you really experience a lot of physical danger… or you know… or you find yourself in a dangerous situation… yes... please do what you need to take care of yourself… to protect yourself… to get yourself to a place of safety... Once you are in the place of safety then allow yourself the opportunity to sort of do what you need to do or what you can do to relax… and truly relax and rest in that place of safety… once you feel you have some safety around you… Because that's when the true healing can really... not that... not that it's true healing… but rather like a deeper level I should say… a deeper… that's when the deeper level of healing can begin to take place and you can begin to connect with this more deeper spiritual perspective and experience of healing and boundaries and so forth…

PRACHI: Yeah and I feel like you know for that actually it's very very important to have a coach or a healer or somebody guiding you… because when you are in that place of being very very hurt etc... on your own it's a little difficult to create that space of safety... So you need somebody else to hold space for you... And the boundary… the expectations we have from other people that you know they won't hurt me… they won't... maybe you know the people around you cannot really fathom that… because their experience… in their experience probably anger is the right way of behaving in a particular situation right... But your coach or your healer is somebody who's trained… who is trauma-informed… who is understanding of like what you are going through and able to hold that space for you... So I would definitely say that you know when you are really in the depth of it... don't really try to do it on your own… get that help… Because you know on your own probably you will not be able to create that safety that you require for yourself...

SAMIA: Yeah... I mean not that it's impossible… but for sure it's not the most easy thing to do because it's actually difficult to maintain proper perspective… Like when you've just been hurt you know and you're traumatized and you're you know... and you know you're struggling to recover from that experience of trauma… you know... It's very difficult to maintain a bigger picture perspective… you know it's just the way that you know the body reacts… the mind reacts… the brain reacts… it tends to like create a very narrow narrow vision for you… a vision that it thinks will give you your best chance to survive and so forth right... So it's just again about… like what will allow you to get to that place of safety and then recognize that you're actually in a… in that place of safety… So sometimes you need that outside help to allow you to be able to you know broaden that… broaden that perspective and that experience... All right! Thank you so much Prachi... again… I yeah... I'm so grateful to have this connection with you… and to have been able to engage in this conversation with you… I really really appreciate it. And to you who have been listening to us this whole time...

PRACHI: Thank you to all the listeners...

SAMIA: Thank you for staying with us... yes… and listening... And we will be adding our links in the show notes… Prachi's links… my links... So please connect with us… get in touch with us… and we'll be happy to do whatever we can to support you and so forth... So until we connect next time I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy… :)