SAMIA:Yes, I love that. That's amazingly awesome, and you know in that context last time when you were with us, we were talking about how important it is to get to know our own stories, to become more self-aware, and why that's so important, and how we can do that more and better… And then as we were getting even deeper and things were becoming even more amazingly interesting and juicy we ran out of time.

SAMIA:Well and so... but the good news in that is now you're back. We had to bring you back because we need to keep going. And one of the most important things that I really wanted to talk with you about today is this idea of, you know, letting go of judgments... something we started to talk about last time in terms of, you know, that's something really important to our happiness, to our ability to make change fun and easy. But we didn't get to dig into that as much as we could. So let's do that today and let's just start out with something really basic... And we... like, when we are talking about getting out of judgments, what are we really talking about? What does it mean?

SAMANTHA:Right, that's such a big loaded word - judgments. Go get your gavel! However, you're right. And coming back to our kind of fields, in this self-help, self-development, self-discovery world that you and I work in, judgment is... it's one of our, might say, our co-workers, how judgments come up… And really in relation to what we had already started talking about with, like, I like to call it the luggage we carry around with us, the story that we barrel along with us as we go through life... and that it comes with a lot of judgment there. We're very focused on the ‘shoulds’ of our luggage and our story, and comparing our story. And there's nothing wrong with comparison… You know, comparison is our brain doing its job. Our brain's job is to put things in places that make sense for it, so that we stay safe and secure and feel like we're moving through the world properly. Something that we kind of touched on last time was how there's a lot that comes in to help us to get to a behavior or however we act in life. And that comes from our growing up, our experiences growing up, the beliefs that we make about ourselves and the world around us... when those things are happening to us as we're growing through life. And we all have a story and it all starts from the day we're born. There's... so you can either have 10, 15, 20, 70 years of a story to be digesting. And coming back to that judgment piece, judgment can often happen when our brain is simply doing what it's best at -- putting things in places of our brain that makes sense... comparing it, contrasting it to all the things we know... because the secret is, guys I'll share with you, we're all doing the best with the knowledge we have. Right?

SAMIA:Yes.

SAMANTHA:So until we get some more knowledge our brain can only compare it to so many things that we've experienced. And so again, judgment is... it's neither good nor bad, it just is, right.

SAMIA:I love that! And you know, actually what you just said about comparison is neither good or bad, judgment is neither good or bad, it just is... that is actually a more advanced notion. I mean, in terms of like, you have to be in a much higher state of mental health and awareness to be able to recognize that. And usually when I actually start talking with people, most people are not there yet. And so I have to start with actually pointing out all the ways in which judgment is bad because so many people don't realize it, you know. They don't realize all the ways in which making judgments is actually hurting them, hurting their self-confidence, their self-esteem, hurting their relationships with other people, hurting their ability to be happy, and... So a lot of times you know that's where I have to start with people. What's your experience with how judgment can be a negative thing, and so then once we understand that, then we can take corrective action around it and go back to that place of it not being bad anymore.

SAMANTHA: Exactly! I love that. I love that piece of how it's almost reverse engineering. We want to step back into, "Okay, well this is where we are and that's where we want to go, so how do we piece back in between?” I love that! And yeah, judgment... it is, it's this process of unlearning in a way of how we are. And it's taken myself... I can only speak from what I know and what I've learned myself and becoming more, I guess, friends, for lack of a better term, with judgments. Really like you said... a love that began with figuring out which judgments was I putting on myself. And I think it came with this connotation that I needed to do things right. I really identify as a recovering perfectionist and people-pleaser. And with that came this like... it's either right or it's wrong.

SAMIA:Yeah.

SAMANTHA:Very black and white. And in that there was a judgment, a lot of judgments on myself of, "Okay, am I doing it right? Or am I doing it wrong?" And in that came a lot of self-blaming, right? Like blaming myself for not knowing better, not being as far along in that comparison mindset there.

SAMIA:Yes, those are excellent examples in terms of when we apply judgment to ourselves and really hurt ourselves. And some of the examples that were coming to me in the context of how we can apply judgment on other people is when we let's say, look at what someone else is doing and say, "You're wrong, that's wrong, that's bad". And you know the moment you see someone as doing something wrong, or behaving in a way that you perceive is wrong, then, you know, it changes the way you feel about them. And it changes when you're trying to interact with them, because you've just seen them do something, quote unquote, "bad", right? And so if you keep doing that, of course it's going to have an impact on your relationships. And then I was thinking, oh my gosh, there's also judgments that we make about the circumstances we're in... It's like any circumstance you might be in, you can make... you can find reasons for it to be either good or bad, you know... If it's raining, you could think of that as a very bad thing. You'll be like, "Oh no I'm gonna get wet, and then I'm gonna have to change, and it's gonna be really…” <

SAMANTHA:Right.

SAMIA:And then... so you're judging the rain to be bad. But at the same time you could make other judgments, you know. So it's like judgments are a perspective that you have.

SAMANTHA:Yeah, love what you... you reminded me there of a conversation I was having with one of my clients this week. And I love how you said there - "Judgments are a perspective”. All of us have that different connotation with each judgment. And I love that painting you painted of how one thinks something so seemingly simple such as rain... This week I was talking with my client about gratitude’s list. Three gratitudes every day for seven days and after the first week... yes, right? After the first week she came to me and she goes, "I hate that. I can't do that". I was like, "Really? Let's talk about this". And what we discovered in the discussion was there was a judgment from when she was little about taking the time to share what she was thankful for. And she had the judgments of having only had done it in a public setting. So now here she was, here she is, you know, moving on in life, choosing to grow herself, choosing good for herself, and she wants to practice noticing the grateful things in her life, and she can't. And there's so much in that, that we were unpacking of... okay, the judgements from the little, the judgments that come up now, the judgments of "Oh well others can do this"... And so in this, to help give a little tool for anyone listening, what we did is we found a way to make the tool work for her, right? Because Samia you and I both know that what worked for us doesn't necessarily work for everyone in uncovering and understanding their judgments, their story, their luggage.

SAMIA:Yes.

SAMANTHA:And so with her, we took the gratitude's list in a different direction. So that rather than making herself sit down and write this thing, it became a tool that she created for herself to notice things about her life and herself that she was grateful for.

SAMIA:Yeah.

SAMANTHA:Turning that... it's not changing, it's pivoting our view from judgment to curiosity.

SAMIA:Yeah, I love that. And it sort of takes me back to this idea of, you know, like experiencing stages of growth in our mental health, and how empowered we feel, or in this case how tapped into our sense of gratitude we are or not, you know. Because, oh my gosh, you made me start thinking about... a lot of my clients also struggle with... because this is also one of my favorite exercises. It's like let's start keeping lists of what we are grateful for, and let's start with three things, minimum. And then we actually, over time, step that up. But the reason we have to start with three is because for a lot of people even starting with three is oftentimes challenging. And a lot of that has to do with how stuck they are in their judgments. And for so many people it comes so much easier to make negative judgments about themselves, about others, about the circumstances they are in, that it makes it really difficult for them to see all the amazing gifts and blessings in their life, you know. And so they have to work really hard... It seems like a really hard thing to think of even three things, especially if you have to think of three new things every day to be grateful for, you know. And so we do have to take it, like, slowly, slowly, step by step, to sort of work on raising our gratitude awareness and strengthening our gratitude attitude.

SAMANTHA:I love that note there of how it is gradual, it starts with three. It took… I started with myself writing three. And I remember that initial judgment of, I can't come up with another three! And that sitting there with the pen and paper like... I wrote those yesterday. What do I write today? I have to find something new to be grateful for… And you pointed out how we become friends with negativity. It becomes like... my coaches have shown me, it's like a really well paved path in a forest.

SAMIA:Yeah.

SAMANTHA:And even though vines cover it over, we can still see it. And we're still familiar with that.

SAMIA:Yeah.

SAMANTHA:And same thing like... have you ever had a sweater you just couldn't get rid of? I had one and it got to the point where this sleeve part came off. I was like, this is not even keeping me warm anymore. However it's mine, it's comfortable, this is what I've known. That new one over there looks really warm. However it's new, it's uncomfortable, it's different. I just, I love brains. I get so intrigued at how visceral change can be, and how... something I work with my clients on is creating multiple levels of, what's the word... grounding.

SAMIA:Ah...Yes.

SAMANTHA:Because we can go outside and we can put our feet in dirt. However not everyone is as tactile as that. So it could be a song or it could be a dance or it could be a meditation or it could be a ring... something like that… Some neuro-linguistic programming where we have a very tactile something we come to and it's, and like you said, it's growing that and getting out of the judgment of... I get to choose something today. I get to have the same three gratitudes for a week.

SAMIA:Yeah, exactly! So it's like, if for a while, you know, you're struggling to come up with new gratitudes, and you have to go back to thinking about the same three ones, that's cool. For... you know, here we are, we're talking about you know, practicing letting go of our judgments, and we don't want to, we don't want to judge ourselves in the process of, you know, working on letting go of our judgment. So what do we do to make it more fun and easy? Like what are some... what would you say is like a challenge when it comes to letting go of especially the negative judgments? And what can we do about it?

SAMANTHA:I love that. Yes, I... and that's one of the biggest things that excited me about getting to collaborate with you, is fun.

SAMIA:Yeah.

SAMANTHA:That's one of the biggest things I love bringing in as a High Performance Coach. Getting the most out of our life is about having more fun, having more laughter, enjoying, growing. Like I was saying, there's so many ways we feel sense, we go through life and so... for me learning to have more fun for myself has been kind of like you were talking about last time when we were chatting, as simple as figuring out how I like my eggs... and almost like making it a game of growth, like, how good can I make my life? How much can I laugh throughout a day? How much could I shine? Or how much could I smile?... So that somebody else could smile. And yeah, almost making it a game of life and growth and finding places to put in goodness. For me, I love turning to essential oils. A really lovely smell around me... I've got some rosemary and orange in my hair actually because I wiggle a lot and so I can smell it throughout meetings. And I do those because rosemary's good for my brain, orange keeps me uplifted. I love power songs. Some people aren't into dancing and that's okay, that is so okay... However, I always recommend songs for that feeling whether it's the beat of the music, or the belting of the voice, or the intensity of the words. Music has a scientific side to it... of frequency. And so that in and of itself is amazing for bringing in fun and laughter. And if you have kids, forget about it... music all day every day. And on another level of learning with the body is trying new foods. It seems funny and like oh, you get, you get kids to try new vegetables and stuff... Why can't we do that as adults too? Try that restaurant down the block. You want to find out what star fruit tastes like, let's find out! Coming back to that, bringing in fun with learning our luggage and understanding judgments is... tapping into that little kid inside of all of us and being okay with that for a minute.

SAMIA:Exactly! This is so awesome. You know, so the problem we can often run into is that we take ourselves way too seriously. We lose touch with that kid's spirit inside of us... and let's get back in touch with that! I love that, I absolutely love that. And you know another problem, or actually, it's not another problem... I think it sort of comes with the same challenge of when we take ourselves too seriously... You know, last time we were talking about self-awareness and, you know, getting to know our stories, and all that good stuff, one of the things that we touched upon was the idea of taking responsibility for ourselves, for our actions, for our thoughts and feelings. Because when we don't do that, you know, we actually give our power away to other people, to other circumstances. And so it's so important for us to take responsibility for ourselves. And that is also key... I mean, you can't... if you're going to embark on an adventure of learning to let go of your judgments, of learning to find that kid’s spirit and connect with it again, you know... you also have to take responsibility for your thoughts, feelings, actions, etc. But it can feel... not good to... this idea of taking responsibility... Like, I know for me, it got me... because I was so stuck in my judgmental perspective, when I thought about taking responsibility, I didn't want to take responsibility. Because I thought taking responsibility meant I was blaming myself or I blame myself for whatever went wrong, you know. And then when I'm blaming myself for what went wrong, then I feel even worse and I don't want to feel even worse. So then I don't want to take responsibility. But then if I don't take responsibility then I'm not able to create the changes that I want to make in terms of, you know, all the good stuff we've been talking about. And so... how can we take responsibility and, you know, that is non-judgmental... like, take responsibility for our thoughts and feelings and actions and do it in a way that is non-judgmental.

SAMANTHA:Yeah, I love that. You know it's so true... we're like, "Okay, I'm going to do this, I'm going to take responsibility". And they're like, "But I don't want to do that! If that's responsibility, I don't want to do that, but I'm going to do it!" And it is, it's this, like, ah... almost like getting into a cold water where we, like, dip our toe and then we gotta like dive in. And that responsibility for our judgments, it is, it's a lot simpler than it is easy. Taking responsibility and being... it's such a funny field to be in... finding that responsibility, extreme ownership, I like to say for ourselves. It's not what happened to us, it's what we're gonna do with what happened. And from my own experience it's not easy, like we just said. It's a lot more simple sounding of like, "Okay, I'm going to take responsibility, I'm going to stop blaming others". And like we've been talking, a lot along this whole conversation about the continual evolution of self-discovery... there is, there's no point at which we're like, "All right, I'm good! I'm discovered! Done! Where's my certificate?".

SAMIA:Actually, I think if you actually ever reach that point in your life it'll be time to die. You know that saying, if you stop... "If you're not growing you're dying”. So the only point, I mean that you can... that, I mean... if you're fully self-discovered means you have no more to learn. If you have no more to learn then there's no more to grow, and then there's no more to live.

SAMANTHA:Yeah, you're just done! I'm done.

SAMIA:Oh my gosh! I'm glad, I'm glad... and so far as I'm loving my life, I'm enjoying living, I'm glad there's so much more to discover.

SAMANTHA:Yes. Samia you pointed out the... I think the biggest nugget that we've been skirting around today... is learning to be excited about our bills, learning to be excited that we are in a hole of judgment, learning to be grateful that we get to have ugly conversations with our family members, and something will come out of that. Because just like you were saying, when we start stopping, we start dying. And when we're not taking ownership and we're blaming, we're playing the blame game, shooting guns all over, I don't need to be responsible for anything... that's not doing anything, that's the beginning of stopping.

SAMIA:Yes.

SAMANTHA:And in our culture of comparison and scrolling and "Oh well, she's like this and I'm supposed to be like that by this time, because everybody else in my community is like that…”, it's like, whoa, hold up! Holster them guns and let's be excited about learning.

SAMIA:Yes, yes! I think you're right. I think this is like part of the crux of, you know, what you were talking about when we first started and we said, you know, comparisons not good are bad, judgments not good are bad. It's about how you use these skills that our brain has, you know. And so it's like when you're using these skills in a way that promotes your happiness, that creates more fun and ease and happiness, do more of that. Because that’s your brain telling you you're headed on the right track. But any time you use these skills in a way that's making you not so happy, that's stressing you out, that's, you know, making you angry or whatever other, you know, experience that you don't want to continue to be in, then let go of that way of making judgments or making comparisons. Or let go of making judgments or comparisons in that moment perhaps by shifting your focus, like you were saying Samantha, to... “what can I learn in this situation?” you know. Forget about, is it good or bad, you know, is it black or white? What can I learn from this situation? Because in every moment, especially in the moments you're finding difficult... difficulty, or challenge, you know, that I... these classic sayings, you know, but they come in so handy, like to just remind yourself of certain simple fundamental truths... Like, “with every challenge, there's an opportunity”. What's the opportunity? “To every problem there's a solution”. What's the solution? Let's just shift focus to that.

SAMANTHA:Yeah, I love that, exactly! It's this opportunity to yeah shift focus and learn from this. Or okay, I'm in debt, well, what could I learn from my debt?

SAMIA:Yeah, oh my gosh. Oh, you know, and another thing you said that triggered something in my mind was, you know... when we start thinking about taking responsibility we're like, okay, we're going to stop blaming other people, and even for that matter, circumstances, for where we are at. We're going to take responsibility. But okay, so we're saying we're going to stop blaming other people and circumstances, but we're going to blame ourselves? Why? Let's just stop blaming. The thing to do, it's like, don't blame other people, don't blame circumstances, don't even blame yourself!

SAMANTHA:Yeah, it's yeah, it comes... it's beginning the process of getting to a mindset where you're like, okay, it is what it is.

SAMIA:Yeah.

SAMANTHA:However, that starts with learning to not blame as much, not blame one person, not blame one thing, and then next week two things... Like you're saying, start with three gratitudes and then add on. We think like, "Oh, I started on my process of being grateful for life so I must be perfect at it”, right? Well, that's a lot to learn in such a little time there. I've started my personal growth, I must be enlightened by now... Have fun, take some blame out of it, less judgments, let's enjoy the journey.

SAMIA:Yeah, it makes me think about, like some of the greatest teachers, role models, mentors I have... when I think about them, I see in their life, in their example, that none of them are perfect. They all have times in their lives when they found things difficult, when they weren't able to deal with the situation in the best way and they made mistakes. And then they learned from that and they became even better as a result. And we can do the same.SAMANTHA:Yeah, yeah, and we can learn from them too. In my experience, I never grew up with mentors or really looking up to anyone, honestly. And so I always had this connotation that I needed to do it right again... Coming back to that mindset of like it's either right or it's wrong, because I never looked up to anyone who went through a process of discovering. And I wanted to highlight again what you were saying about the feelings, about how anger comes up or fear comes up. And in my story I always viewed those as wrong. I'm angry, so I must be doing something wrong... And I think in this conversation another gold nugget for everyone is that letting go of blame and judgment is... and coming into more discovery with ourselves, is seeing that the negative emotions are also warning signs, just as much as the positive emotions. We feel happy when we see a kitten, however we feel angry when we see an elderly person not being assisted. It's a very simple and basic example. However, in my journey of getting out of the judgments, learning to recognize those negative emotions as like a warning sign, like a warning light on your car, or like an engine needs repair. Okay, I get really angry when my ex-partner doesn't communicate with me. So what can I learn from that anger rather than shutting down myself and going off and being angry in a room by myself? How can I learn from that anger to express myself better, and to have that ugly conversation that will turn into communication and understanding, and hopefully end up in laughter at the end?

SAMANTHA:Yeah, yeah, and we can learn from them too. In my experience, I never grew up with mentors or really looking up to anyone, honestly. And so I always had this connotation that I needed to do it right again... Coming back to that mindset of like it's either right or it's wrong, because I never looked up to anyone who went through a process of discovering. And I wanted to highlight again what you were saying about the feelings, about how anger comes up or fear comes up. And in my story I always viewed those as wrong. I'm angry, so I must be doing something wrong... And I think in this conversation another gold nugget for everyone is that letting go of blame and judgment is... and coming into more discovery with ourselves, is seeing that the negative emotions are also warning signs, just as much as the positive emotions. We feel happy when we see a kitten, however we feel angry when we see an elderly person not being assisted. It's a very simple and basic example. However, in my journey of getting out of the judgments, learning to recognize those negative emotions as like a warning sign, like a warning light on your car, or like an engine needs repair. Okay, I get really angry when my ex-partner doesn't communicate with me. So what can I learn from that anger rather than shutting down myself and going off and being angry in a room by myself? How can I learn from that anger to express myself better, and to have that ugly conversation that will turn into communication and understanding, and hopefully end up in laughter at the end?

SAMIA:Yeah, and you know this made me think about another excellent, excellent thing you said earlier today and we sort of didn't get to stop and really consider the deep wisdom in what you said... And that was when you were talking about how... people are doing the best they can, people are doing the best they can with what they know. And so like in this example of when you feel angry at your partner because of something they did or said, if we can remind ourselves that, "Hey! I'm doing the best I can in this moment with whatever I'm feeling and doing, and so is that person... they're also doing their best with what they know and what they have”. And so if we can remind ourselves of that, you know, that might... is another clue or another key that we can use to sort of start stepping away from those negative judgments, whether it's about ourselves or our partner, and step more into a place of compassion.

SAMANTHA:Yes, yes exactly! And having some fun... At the end of the day life is that cliché saying, "Life is short, enjoy it now."

SAMIA:Yeah, oh my gosh! And once again Samantha I'm... we're at this point again where we're going deeper, we are having so much fun, and I want to keep talking... and we have to wrap up again! But, you know, come back again and we'll keep talking.

SAMANTHA:Exactly. We'll find some more golden nuggets and gems to share with people along the way.

SAMIA:Yes, I love that, I love that. So thank you so much. Any last words for today?

SAMANTHA:I want to leave the last words of smile... even on cloudy days, smile. Even if we have to put a pen in our mouth and force it for five minutes, for two minutes, a smile can literally change a life.

SAMIA:Yeah, and I want to talk more about that, so come back and we'll talk more about that. And in the meantime we are putting Samantha's links in the show notes. And we're putting my links in the show notes. So get in touch with us and you can continue the conversation with us elsewhere, in the different places where we hang out, and we are putting the links for them. So again reach out. We would love to, we would love to connect with you. And thank you again Samantha. I will see you again soon :)

SAMANTHA:Definitely, thank you. Bless you :).