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The 3 Levels of Change for Joyful Life & Relationships...
With Dolphin Kasper & Samia Bano
Want to create positive change in your life and relationships, but feel stuck? Think it's impossible to create change in your situation?
Listen now to this interview with Dolphin Kasper, #RelationshipCoach & #Educator to learn about the 3 levels of change that lie at the heart of communicating well and creating #healthyrelationships relationships that really nourish us. With this understanding you will find it #funandeasy to #makechange and live a meaningful and #joyfullife!
#meaningfullife #makelifemeaningful #MakeLifeEasier #ChangeYourLife #changeisgood #livejoyfully #meaningfulrelationships #happyrelationship #HappyRelationships
Samia Bano is the #HappinessExpert, author, speaker, podcaster & coach for coaches and healers. Samia is most known for her book, 'Make Change Fun and Easy' and her #podcast of the same name. With the help of her signature Follow Your Heart Process™, a unique combination of #PositivePsychology and the spiritual wisdom of our most effective #ChangeMakers, Samia helps you overcome #LimitingBeliefs, your chains of fear, to develop a #PositiveMindset and create the impact and income you desire with fun and ease…
Samia’s advanced signature programs include the Happiness 101 Class and the Transformative Action Training.
Samia is also a Certified #ReikiHealer and Crisis Counselor working to promote #MentalHealthAwareness.
Samia models #HeartCenteredLeadership and business that is both #SociallyResponsible and #EnvironmentallyFriendly.
Samia is a practicing #Muslim with an inter-spiritual approach. As someone who has a love and appreciation for diversity, she is a #BridgeBuilder between people of different faiths and cultures.
Although Samia currently lives in California, USA, she has lived in 3 other countries and speaks Hindi, Urdu, and English fluently.
To Book your Free HAPPINESS 101 EXPLORATION CALL with Samia, click: tps://my.timetrade.com/book/JX9XJ
Full Video Interview
SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really, really good to be with you again. And I know you'll be so happy you have joined us today, because we have a very special guest. And it's Dolphin Kasper, who is a Relationship Coach and Educator... And I'm so excited to have you with us Dolphin. Welcome…
DOLPHIN: Thank you so much, Samia. It's a pleasure to be here. And I'm looking forward to getting into the conversation.
SAMIA: Yes, me too... And actually, before we jump into our topic for the day, will you please tell us more about who you are and what you do?
DOLPHIN: Yeah, so I support people in deep change on the relational level. And then I include three levels of change. So there are… there's the inner world, the intra-personal change, which is all about relationships in spite of us thinking that we're the singular person, we're actually made up of all these different parts and voices. And we can learn how to coordinate the communication inside in a way that makes it harmonious and enjoyable to be alive. There's the interpersonal space of communication and relationship, which is between us. And then there's something I call the super personal space of relationship, which is, if we are in a position of leadership, of education, where we are creating the space within which others interact and relate, then that's super personal, and that all of them can be mastered with very simple principles. Now, the journey to mastery is long. But the principles that are at the heart of communicating well and creating relationships that really nourish us, are actually quite simple... And so I bring this simplicity as an approach to creating change where most people think it's impossible. I think that's my magic is where you think it's just impossible. And it's just stuck. And there's no way through. That's where I can do my magic. And yeah, create the possibility for people when they don't see it themselves…
SAMIA: I love it. That is so cool... What would you say like one of the biggest challenges that clients you're working with have, where they're like, "Oh, this is impossible", and you're able to step in…
DOLPHIN: Yeah. So, you know, I think we all want a life that is enjoyable... But we actually want more than that. When we start to explore a life that just is about enjoyment and isn't connected to meaning, we get very lost as human beings. So what we want isn't enjoy, that's that... What we want is a life that's deeply enjoyable and satisfying, while being deeply meaningful. And I think a lot of the struggles that people have in their lives is that they are disconnected from a sense of meaning. And then even if they get things that appear to work on the surface, in other words, things that appear to make difficult things go away, or things that appear to make them have what society and their parents and everyone in their life has told them they're supposed to have to be happy, they find themselves still dissatisfied... And that's because in our world we haven't done a good job, I think particularly in the West, of supporting the development of the human being in a way where we are deeply connected to our reason for being... And so that's one of the things I support people with is, a reconnection with a reason for being that can properly hold the joys and the difficulties of life.
SAMIA: You are speaking to the right people here... Ah, I so agree with you. I so agree with you... I mean, as a happiness expert, you know, I talk a lot in my work about… there's different kinds of happiness. And most people are only focusing on one type of happiness, you know, that is actually more about outer stimuli in terms of, okay, you get the good job, you get the house, and car, or whatever else you think you need to make a good life... but that is... I mean, that provides some pleasure, that provides some comfort, that provides some ease… there is a certain kind of happiness you can receive from that. But there's so much more, like you're saying Dolphin. And what people will oftentimes neglect that, those inner sources of happiness and the causes of inner happiness… And definitely, where you get your sense of meaning and purpose in life, is a huge source of our sense of spirituality and spiritual connection is another huge source… making sure we are living in a way that's in alignment with our values, and, you know, like living in a way that's authentic to who we are, I mean, that's another huge source. And most of the time, we are not even taught to think about the fact that there are all these different sources of happiness that we need to sort of tap into and pay attention to and cultivate in our lives…
DOLPHIN: Totally, totally, I'm reminded of a podcast from Sam Harris. I don't actually remember his guest, I was just trying to look it up here... He was talking to a woman who's a happiness… Laurie Santos... Laurie Santos was talking about these two, two frames for happiness. There's being happy in our lives, and being happy with our lives... And the happy in our lives is a kind of feeling of happiness… like, I feel good today, I feel I'm getting the things I want. I feel satisfied with a moment-to-moment experience of life. And then there's happy with our lives, which means when we look at our lives from a more contextual perspective, we're happy with the life we're living, which is much more intrinsic... I can be happy with my life in spite of the natural ebbs and flows of the moment-to-moment happiness I feel in my life. And I think that that shift of perspective around these, like you say, these kinds of happiness we can experience is so important for us. Otherwise, we're always chasing the next happy moment.
DOLPHIN: Or more accurately, if we think there's a better way to feel, we end up fighting against life when it appears to be bringing experiences we don't want. And just for anyone that's trying to create a life that is just always really happy, it's a losing battle... Life is gonna win that battle. But we can create a context for our lives where we're happy with our lives as it does what life naturally does, which is goes up and down and to and fro... Which are all the flavors…
SAMIA: Yeah. And you know, actually, it's interesting, I guess, partly because it's the work that I'm in, but also because this is just an important aspect of our lives. Like, I have these conversations so often. Just yesterday, I was having this conversation with one of my sisters and my aunt... And we were talking about mentoring a young man that has come into our lives. And, you know, he's emigrated to America, his English skills are still not very good. So, you know, he has a lot to learn. And we were talking about what can we share with him in terms of what to do, how to go about learning, and making a good life for himself here... And, you know, one of the issues that came up is like, okay, you have to be practical... You have to be practical about life and learn the things that are going to help you practically succeed. And of course, I'm like, of course, I never deny that. I never deny the having to deal with the practicalities of life in terms of you have to make the money you need to pay your bills, to pay your rent, etcetera... And at the same time, we can always have that consciousness and awareness that we can strive to accomplish these goals in a way that are not compromising our inner peace and happiness. Why do we believe or think that those two things have to be in competition, or are as if they're contrary goals? I say no, they're not contrary goals... and we can walk both of those intents together…
DOLPHIN: Yeah, beautiful. It makes me think of what we were talking about just before we push record, which is… how do we infuse life with a quality of playfulness. And I think for a lot of people that relate to life as a struggle, that's going to feel very alien to them. Like that doesn't make sense. How can I make a difficult life playful? But I will bring it back to this idea of context. If you know that your reason for being is connected to something that is far beyond your personal life, like, there's something of deep value that your life is about, that you are in service to… and not only are the difficulties in your life not at odds with that playful exploration of that purpose… that when we really get honest, we know that the difficulties are the ones... that they're the moments of life that bring most value, most perspective, most meaning to our lives, they grow us the most... They make us most capable of bringing our own gifts and the discoveries that we've made into the world and sharing them with others. So again, I think that for anyone out there that's listening, that's feeling stuck, that's feeling hopeless, that's feeling like life is just an endless struggle… there are answers for you in recontextualizing what your life is about and recontextualizing what it means to have a difficult time in any given moment.
DOLPHIN: And if you don't resonate directly with what I'm saying, but something in you knows that I'm saying something that's true, what you're going to want to do is to find people in your life that you can connect to directly, you know, in real-time, that you know have a perspective you don't yet have. Because in a real way, what our relationships are about most fundamentally, they're about sharing perspective, they're about sharing context. When you're around someone that has a deep, broad, meaningful context for their lives, something in you relaxes, something in you feels seen and heard. And something in you reconnects with a reason for being that you might not have felt for some time. So the value, if you are hearing me and you kind of agree somewhat with what I'm saying, is for you to make sure that the people that are around you, the people you're spending most of your time with, are supporting and inviting you to continually expand and deepen and make more meaningful the context you've created for your life. And what will naturally happen as that context comes into reality is, you'll take on more of a sense of humor, more of a lightness, more of a levity, and more of a playfulness, even when life gets hard. Because you know that these hard moments are some of your greatest opportunities to play in the space of life and to grow in the space of life…
SAMIA: Yes, you know, I really appreciate this perspective that you're sharing, Dolphin. It makes me think about a moment... I was working with one of my spiritual mentors, and we were learning a form of Open Heart Meditation. And with this Open Heart Meditation, it's basically like a prayer that you do where, first of all, you actually ask for, you know, peace and happiness and so forth... for yourself, and then also for others. So in that way, it's actually sort of similar, I guess, to the loving-kindness meditation that is... that may… other people may be more familiar with the loving-kindness meditation... For some reason has especially I find in America has become like one of those... Like, even in research in positive psychology, in meditation and so forth, a lot of the research done they utilize the practice of loving-kindness meditation. And so anyways, that's not the point... The point is this Open Heart Meditation... So there is a theme of forgiveness in the Open Heart Meditation that we practice... And one of the really cool aspects of Open Heart Meditation is that our mentor, he’s like… it's really important that you smile, you learn to smile, and you practice smiling even as you're going through the meditative experience. And that's contrary to how I had learned meditation and prayer before… where I'd always been taught that, oh, meditation and prayers are very serious thing. We need to be very serious. Because if you're not taking seriously, then, I mean, you're somehow being disrespectful. But my mentor, in this case, he's like, no, actually smiling, being happy, is really, really important and key. And it's interesting, like, there this... The first few times that I did the open heart meditation and we came to these parts about forgiveness, especially in terms of asking for forgiveness for things that we have done, where we realize that, you know, we were unjust, we mistreated someone… like, how can I… Am I supposed to keep smiling through that part, too? I mean, that's so serious. And, you know, shouldn't I be feeling sorry and remorseful. And doesn't that mean I shouldn't be smiling? Like, isn't there something wrong with that? And my mentor’s like, "No, no, actually keep smiling even through that." That was just, like, such a profound shift for me in perspective… and to understand why he was leading us that way. And how that even makes sense… I mean, what would you say? Like, you know, like, even literally, yesterday, I was saying, you know, we have to… we cannot put aside our, you know, our need for happiness and inner peace in our quest to be successful in life... One of the arguments I heard back was… these are serious matters. He has serious responsibilities to take care off. He has, you know, he has a child, he has a wife… you can't be telling him to focus on having fun... So how do you respond?
DOLPHIN: Yeah, well, I would talk to the beginning about principles, and that if we try to approach and solve complexity with complexity, we just get lost... But one of the principles that I really love to introduce for people that I work with… I'll give just give this to your audience as a takeaway is… everything has value, but not equal value... And so then, if we can let that in as a truth, everything has value but not equal value, then learning how to live well is an attunement to the real levels of value at play. Because we could easily imagine a moment when something important is happening. And the idea, that kind of heritage of seriousness and solemnness and stoicness is rich in the environment. And that's just what you do. And I could imagine, in an important moment, people losing touch with the humor and the lightheartedness... That's actually of more value than the tradition of being a certain way. And so then we trade in this real value, like a child at a funeral who is in their joy, and then someone tells them they shouldn't be. You can just, you can just see right there, we've made a mistake around what the environment of saying goodbye to a loved one is about… It…it's not in the absence of play and joy. It's that it also will include grief in its rightful time. And so then we can start to see where might we be missing the marker on the levels of value. So I just gave an example where we're, we're to solemn... But there's also a place where something needs care and attention and has a high level of importance, and we treat it as something frivolous. There now, we've just made a similar mistake on the other side of the spectrum. We've taken something that's of high value, and we've devalued it... We can make mistakes like this all the time. And so someone might ask the question, well, how do you get it right? And we can easily go up into our heads and start making ourselves wrong and pointing out all the ways that we're missing the mark. Or, we could begin to trust life more deeply… we could start to trust our body and our heart more deeply. I believe that life really knows what it's doing is there's another principle that I live by, and that I educate and coach by. Life really knows what it's doing. And our first job is to become attuned to that knowing... And to begin to be in service to it. And so as we start to approach life, where life actually is offering the answers to us… not through our intellect, not through good ideas we have in our head, but deep senses and clarity that we have in our heart and in our body. And then the mind becomes a servant to that… we start to recognize that a certain way of being, a certain authentic expression, life is actually calling for that in this moment. And sometimes it's going to come through as an effortless flow. And sometimes it may involve some effort and some challenge. But when we're clear, the challenge is no longer an issue. The difficulty or the sense that it's not going to go quite perfectly, isn't an issue anymore, because we're feeling called… we're feeling called by the real clarity and knowing of life to show up and be and do something that has real value in it. And then we're willing to trade other things, like, maybe momentary comfort, for that deeper value... And as we do, the real and rightful ease and joy of life starts to flood through. So now in moments where we're meant to be totally at ease, we can actually be at ease… instead of like most people, when ease starts to come, they're so used to being stressed, they're so so used to being tense, in relation to life, that they'll create a reason to be anxious, or an or intention… even though the moment is actually calling for them to be totally relaxed. So to me, it's about kind of listening and alignment with life. And we... there are techniques like meditative practices, that can reacquaint us with that clarity and that knowing and learn how to live that way… in a way that maximizes our sense of well-being and joy and happiness.
SAMIA: Yeah, you know, I think this reminds me of a saying… I think it's supposed to be Albert Einstein who said it, but it might be someone else… the saying that… whether you believe the universe is a friendly place or a hostile place, that is one of the most critical decisions you will ever make. And that will determine the quality of your life. Because if you believe the universe is a hostile place, then you act accordingly. You know, it's like… life is short, ugly, brutish, you know, and so you have to have that mindset that… I mean, if that's what life is, and you have to be always on guard, and of course, there's going to be lots of stress... And in that kind of context, if you're not ready and willing to fight, how are you going to survive? You know, it doesn't even make sense. But if you can see, believe, know, that the universe is in fact a friendly place, then, you know, even in the midst of challenges, or problems, or what you may be perceiving as challenges or problems, you can begin to find the space for play, and hey, where is the ease? The universe is friendly, so there… where's the ease here? Let me find it…
DOLPHIN: Yeah, and they can all belong… like, we would be silly to believe that there are no dangers in life. I have a two-and-a-half-year-old son, I'm not going to tell him that there are no dangers in life. That's irresponsible of me as a parent. But if my overall way of being with him is that there's always something to worry about, there's always something to be scared of, what I'm telling him is, fundamentally, life is dangerous and scary, and you should always be on guard… he won't be able to enjoy life from that place, he won't be able to create healthy, connected relationships from that place… because he'll always be on guard against a pre-existing belief that life is fundamentally dangerous. So again, it's about levels of value… everything has value, but not equal value. Can we come to a place where life fundamentally is a place within which life wants to occur, where life is being called forward into its next iteration, of expression and joy and well-being... And along the way, there are difficulties and challenges that really do require our care and attention… but only so much as they need. And so for me living well, living a truly happy, fulfilled life is about recognizing where and when my care and my attention and my intervention is needed. And where I can genuinely relax and move in the flow of life and enjoy the whole journey. And then when we do that well, we live well…
SAMIA: Yeah. So this actually makes me thing about… towards the beginning, when you started talking, you talked about like three different levels of change… the intra-change, inter-change, super personal change... So everything that we've been talking about… can we sort of relate that back to these different levels of change? And like how to apply this lesson… this idea of playful… playfulness, and ease… how do we implement that at the intra-change level, and then the inter-change level, and then the super personal change level?
DOLPHIN: What I would like to do, I'll talk a little bit about the intra-personal change, that’s inner, inner change of an individual. And the principles there are actually transferable to the other levels, the inter-personal and the super personal... So if we want to think about someone who has a lot of inner conflict, what's happening there is that there are differentiated parts of them that are at odds. They have their own sense of themselves, they have their own agendas and interests, they have their own sensibilities, sensitivities, aversions and attractions, things they like and don't like. And they're in a space within which they have to relate with one another. Inside of you, those parts have to interact, there is no way around it.
DOLPHIN: And we can take on... Essentially, what we really are is the container for those parts… but not a static container, not just like an empty space… we are a living environment within which these parts interact. And the way we create our environment for them, changes how they relate. So there's a beautiful psychiatrist and educator and author named Daniel Siegel. And he talks about integration, which is a word I use a lot… and I use it interchangeably with the word healing. I believe healing and integration are the same... His definition of integration is when differentiated parts become collaborative and coherent in their interactions. That's my rewording of his definition. So for that to happen, what needs to happen is the parts that are currently at odds, the parts that currently see one another as enemy, or opposition, need enough room to breathe and be and communicate, so that the underlying needs that didn't get met in our past can be expressed and known by the other. In that space of more deeply knowing one another, they start to see how and where they're actually on the same team, and how and where their desire to reach and stretch to meet one another's needs, makes them both stronger, makes them both more connected and makes them both more integrated. And so the intra-personal transformation starts with our willingness and ability to create a bigger, warmer or more loving space within which the parts of us that are hard to be with can be as they are, can express themselves as they are, can begin to learn how to integrate their relationships with the other parts inside of us. So there's lots of complexity and detail to how that communication can most effectively happen. That's the core of my work… is teaching people how to do that. But, But once we learn the principles that most facilitate that interaction and integration, it starts to mostly happen on its own. And when we master that internally, the intrapersonal, we actually have the blueprint for interpersonal. We now know that this one across from us is just like one of those other parts, and they have their own perspectives and needs and values and wants and desires. And our job is to figure out how and where a collaborative interaction here makes us both more grounded, makes us both more connected, makes our contribution more valuable. And then once we really master the interpersonal, we start to come into a space within which we can start to support others in that which is woven into the human condition. Once we grow into something, we naturally want to give it away to others that we love and that we're connected to. So to me, it… life evolves and heals and grows from the inside out, naturally. And it is our job to first learn how to be with these inner worlds, these inner parts, and then to bring the blueprint that the intelligence that we learned there, into our relationships and into the leadership we bring to the world.
SAMIA: Yes… you just brought up so many interesting, interesting points... It made me think about... I mean, of course, I've experienced this kind of conflict where there's different parts of me and they seem to be at odds together. And then yes, by the time I come to be at a place of peace within myself... You realize, "Ah, both of these parts of me that seemed to be at odds, they were actually both trying to help me in their own way." I remember one time very vividly where, like, I was thinking about, and trying to sort of, reconcile the part of me that has a deep need to be safe, particularly in the context of my relationships, that I have in my life. And at the same time, the part of me that has a deep value to be compassionate and to be loving and forgiving... And the part of me that has a deep value for being safe was, like, so scared of being hurt that if I allowed myself to be vulnerable, for example, in certain ways with the people that I was interacting with, that I could get hurt. And so it didn't want to allow me to ask for help when I needed help. And that has been a huge challenge for me, growing up, you know… But then at the same time, the part of me that wants to be more loving, and, you know, compassionate, kind, forgiving, etc… all of that requires that I be more vulnerable, that I'd be more open… and that I not just be like, "Okay, I will help you", but also be willing to receive help, you know. And so it's like, yeah, it's been such an amazing... And I mean, there's parts of it that I'm still working through now where I can fall... I recognize every once in a while, I catch myself falling into the old pattern, or the old bad habit… but it's been like, such a wonderful thing to actually, first of all realize that, "Oh, I have these two needs and values, and they're both beautiful and valid, and they can be brought together." Yeah…
DOLPHIN: Yeah. And you I mean, you bring up such an interesting point around when we approach a moment and our existing conditioning kind of flares up. And often, the unresolved, unintegrated conditioning of our past is an overcompensation. Something happened, it was very painful or difficult. And we created a bunch of solutions… quote unquote solutions… for that difficulty. And it's not that those coping mechanisms are wrong or bad. We need them... But we need them in the rightful proportion at the rightful time. And that's something that we tend not to be so good at… we tend not to be good at reading, because so much of it is unconscious and very compelling on the level of experience… we feel fear, or we feel anger, and that ends up informing the fear-anger grabs the wheel of the car… Our real job is to recognize our tendencies, to cultivate more awareness and presence, and to begin making difficult decisions when our sense our kind of visceral sense is to do “A”, to start to stretch and go, "Okay, is “A” really the best thing to do here..."
DOLPHIN: Can we start to stretch into a broader, deeper awareness of the moment and say… because it might be... It might, it might be that the coping mechanism you used in the past is exactly what you need right now. But because of how we've been conditioned, usually not. Usually, we're wrong. Usually, we overcompensate and much of life gets lost in that overcompensation. So again, like, to start to recalibrate, to start to attune to what life is calling for in spite of the volume of our reflexive reactions. And as I mentioned earlier… the best way to learn this is to be around people who know how to do it, to be around people who are sincerely exploring the journey of learning how to do it. So for those of you that are listening, this is within you to learn. This is within you to master. And it requires that you begin to allocate time, energy and resources around the things that really matter most. And of all the things in our lives, relationships are on a very short list of the most important things…
SAMIA: Yes, I agree with you. In fact, it might even be the essence of what life is all about. I mean, all of life is about us being in relationships… first of all, like you said, with ourselves and then with other people, but then also all aspects of our world, our environment, our universe… it's all about, you know, being aware of how we are relating, and you know, where the friction and stress points are, in the way that we are relating… and, you know, working to ease those. And ease those, ideally, I think, by introducing some playfulness…
DOLPHIN: It's incredibly helpful…
SAMIA: Yeah, yeah... Yeah. And I love the, what you said about, you know, if you can start by working on your relationship with yourself, it actually then becomes, like, a transferable skill in terms of your relationship with others, and so forth... And I think that was one of the most helpful lessons for me to also have learned, particularly in the context of forgiveness in my relationships, because… you know, there are relationships we have with other people where we feel so hurt and so violated by the other person, they we’re like, "This is completely unforgivable. Like, how can you even begin to think about forgiving something like that..." And I know, like, as a survivor of child sexual abuse, I have held that perspective, with so much fashion, and sense of, you know, righteous indignation and anger and so forth. And it was... And I didn't even think that it was a problem for me to hold on to this perspective that, "No, there are some people who are just so bad and so evil that they deserve to suffer, they deserve to be punished". I didn't even think that there was a problem in that perspective until I realized how that anger and that judgment was actually not remaining confined to just that person or those specific persons that I perceived to have, you know, hurt me in that horrible way. But it was sort of starting to affect all of my relationships, and it was like… And so then I'm like, Oh, my God, if I really want peace in my heart and my life, I have to learn to forgive. And then so then I have to be willing to create some change around this attitude. And it was just so difficult for me to even begin to imagine how it was even possible until I learned to realize and recognize how I in fact had already done that for myself, in terms of reconciling with parts of my own self that I had, at one time, hated and not been very loving towards. And so I realized, "Oh, if I can do this for myself, in terms of reconciling myself with parts of me that I hated with so much passion, and so forth, then there is also a path to do that in the context of my relationship with other people." And so it was such a profound lesson... Because, you know, you can be like, I think, when we think... When I remember, when I used to think about this whole challenge of forgiveness and reconciliation with someone else, I would be always holding in my mind the option of… well, I just won't have anything more to do with that person. I will just cut them out of my life entirely. And so there was a sort of backup escape plan. But when you're talking about your relationship with yourself, you can’t escape yourself... No... Not really. And so if you want peace in your life, you have to learn how to reconcile, at the very least with yourself. But the beautiful thing is once you do learn to reconcile with yourself, then it becomes possible to do it with others too.
DOLPHIN: So always from the inside out. And as you mentioned, once we grow past our very self-oriented way of being in life and relating to life, we actually get not in some airy-fairy esoteric way, but in a real way, that other is us. That one that we've been resenting and hating and holding things against and making wrong, is, is not meaningfully different than us. And when you can find forgiveness for someone who has wronged you, in a way like you're talking about, you are so much more equipped to support others in the world in forgiveness... It doesn't matter that much that you've learned to forgive the person who took the last tub of ice cream at the supermarket, you know, like, "Okay, great, that's, that's fine". But that forgiveness doesn't go very deep. The deeper the forgiveness goes, the more we carry real wisdom around what gets in the way of forgiveness, and what the real gifts of forgiveness are, and we can then share them with others.
SAMIA: Yes, you know, I'll probably have to invite you back Kasper, so we can do a whole episode on forgiveness because that is such a deep, deep topic and issue for us to face and deal with because, my gosh… the depth that we can go into in the context of practicing forgiveness, I mean... actually, ah... It's like, it's something truly to be experienced, it's like… it's difficult to do sometimes talk about these things, like, in the context of just theoretical knowledge. Like, you really need to tap into the experience and the practice of it to really understand the issues at hand. Because I mean… like, for example, in the context of my being a survivor of child sexual abuse, the relationship that I've had with the practice of forgiveness, it's already been like, I've been working on it for 30-plus years in my life. And it's so interesting, I, you know, like, I would say, like, maybe about 10 years ago, I had reached a point in my healing journey where I felt finally, like, Oh, my gosh, I'm in a really good place. Like, I was feeling real sense of peace in my life, I was feeling a real sense of, finally, I'm in control of my mental health and well-being… I was like, Ah, I'm like, in a really good place with forgiveness. Like, I actually was like, Oh, I think I've done a really good job in terms of… I no longer feel angry at the person and I no longer curse him and wish him horrible deaths. And you know, all that kind of stuff. And then just, like, maybe it was two years ago now that I happened to come across this person again… because I had not seen him for many, many years. And the moment I was back in contact with him, phoo, like, all this feeling, and emotion, memories got re-triggered. And I suddenly found myself engaging in behaviors and thought that I thought I had already sort of resolved and dissolved and, you know… And I, every time I saw him, and I thought about him, I was like… here's the abuser. Here's the abuser... And then I'm like, No, he's not just “the abuser”. There's more to him than the worst thing that I know him to have done, you know. And so it's just so interesting like you think you have forgiven and so forth. And then you realize… something happens and you get re-triggered and you realize, oh, there's room for me to go deeper.
DOLPHIN: Yeah, but that framing that you just did there is so insightful and valuable, which is to… the hatred, the animosity, the wrong making, is about framing someone's existence within the context of the worst that they've ever done... And if you do that, what you will inherently do is you'll do the same with yourself… whatever the worst you've ever done is not acceptable, you will dissociate and be disowned, or you will disown that part of you. And then there's no room for redemption.
DOLPHIN: You've decided that person or that part is irredeemable. And now, in a real way, your life is on hold... Where your life can go, all of the joy you can experience, all of the freedom that is really available to you is unavailable, because you have locked in place an irredeemable aspect of life. And now it can't be redeemed, it can't come into light, it can't come into wholeness and integration and healing. So you know, I just love the way you stated that… it really kind of connected some dots in my mind and in my heart around the practice of forgiveness... And for sure, if we wanted to get back together and do a deeper dive into what forgiveness is, what gets in the way, and how we can make it happen, I would be totally open to that conversation.
SAMIA: Awesome. Let's do that then. And I think actually, let's wrap up for today because I keep losing track of time because I'm having so much talking with you... But I think our audience will appreciate you coming back so that we can really continue to talk. And then we'll have so much more ease in terms of not feeling pressured with time constraints and so forth. So, okay, okay, I love this idea. Okay, so do you have any last thoughts or ideas or words to share with us for now?
DOLPHIN: Yeah, I think sometimes when we listen to a talk or new information comes in and things light up, we get these aha moments, and then our mind kind of gets in and maybe gets confused, or we start to tell an old story… what I would encourage people to do is, if something landed, it feels like it did… this was a really lovely conversation… then just enjoy that, enjoy that… that something touched you, that something made sense to you, that something inspired you… let that be there. You know, this is a recorded podcast, so you can come back and listen to it again. Try not to let your mind, especially the conditioned way your mind works, come in and kind of muddle or distract from your enjoyment of this conversation in whatever way… in which it nourished you or brought light to something that's important to you. Enjoy that. And I would say, pick one thing, pick one thing that you'll dedicate the rest of your day to, that you know will bring more ease more happiness, and more joy into your life, and maybe tomorrow you do the same thing. And maybe the next day, you do the same thing. Sometimes just little adjustments each day, over time, actually make a massive difference for us…
SAMIA: You just dropped another amazing pearl of wisdom. We could do a whole other episode around that. Thank you so much, Dolphin... I really appreciate you coming today and sharing all of that wonderful wisdom with us. And I look forward to having you come back. And in the meantime, for all of you who are listening, I just want to remind you to check the show notes because we will be dropping Dolphin's links in there so you can connect with him and continue to learn more. And yeah, until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy... :)
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