SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really, really good to be with you again. And guess what? We have a very cool and returning guest with us today. And it's Jen... And I won’t try to pronounce your last name, Jenn, because I had it, and then I just found myself blanking... But Jenn, you're so cool, please, please tell us how to pronounce your full name and a little more about who you are and what you do…

JENN: Yes, for sure... It's okay, I fully expected this, nobody ever really gets it right... So my full name is Jenn Jodouin... And because nobody can get it, right, I just go by Jenn J. And that's an easy way to remember who I am. Because it's just JJ. It was a nickname that I had when I was growing up, so fits appropriately. And I am a holistic nutritionist. I help and coach exhausted moms to recharge their batteries and feel good again in their bodies. And I do all that through a holistic lifestyle, balancing their hormones, and avoiding diet and culture and mindsets. And because I'm a mom myself, I recognize the struggle that most of us as moms experience when it comes to healthy eating, because we've got a whole family to feed and everybody seems to want something different every time we sit down at the table. So I do have a large family component to my practice where I'm really helping moms simplifying nutrition, bring it to the whole family in an easy way while she is taking steps towards feeling better in her body…

SAMIA: Yes... That is so amazing, Jenn. And just for those of you who are listening, who did not catch our first episode with Jenn, please go back and listen to it. Because actually, in our last episode we talk about… like sort of broader issues, health-related issues, that you can actually help yourself heal through better nutrition, for example, hormonal imbalances… that's an area of specialization for Jenn… she can really help you correct hormonal imbalances and the impact that that has on your health, through nutrition and other ways, but through nutrition, and that's really amazing. And it's important to understand just how key nutrition is for us to be able to have good health. And when we start to think about… okay, okay, I want to change the way I eat and just, you know, improve my nutritional health and well-being not only for myself but for my family, then you run into a whole new set of potential challenges. And so that's what we're gonna focus on today... And I'm so excited to learn about this from you, Jenn, because this is a story that I know I have experienced in my home as well. And to some extent, continuing to experience in my home… I'm not a mom, but I am a child and I live with my parents. And we as a family have been, like, literally for a good decade now, been on this journey of learning how to be more healthy, and particularly in the context of nutrition. So we have, I feel like a good handle on the knowledge of what healthy eating looks like, what nutrition looks like. But implementing that knowledge has been sort of like an ongoing challenge…

JENN: Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, that's exactly why I do what I do. Because, you know, it's not for lack of access to information… because with the internet nowadays, you know, we look at what we have access to in terms of information versus what we had access to 20, 30 years ago, it… there's just no comparison, right... And so there it's not for lack of information that many of us struggle with actually living a healthier lifestyle or changing our lifestyle. It's the implementation part of it. And really, it's the rooted down habits and belief systems that we have instilled in us from childhood, and growing up in certain environments, that have actually led us to continue the journey that we're on, and then have difficulty changing it…

SAMIA: Yes. Yeah, you're so right because I, you know, I find that so many people miss this very key insight to what it takes to changing our behavior. You know, as a happiness expert, of course, I'm very interested in helping my clients change their behaviors as well and start engaging in behaviors that are more happiness-promoting for them. And so many people, like, you know, just want to focus on the behavior part. They’ll just be like… okay, just tell me what to do. If I know what to do, I'll do it. And it just doesn't work like that…

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JENN: Really doesn't... You're correct, it really does it... It's funny you say that, because before I was a nutritionist, I actually studied psychology. So I'm actually in a really good position to do what I do, because I have a good understanding of how the brain works and how habits are created. And what it actually takes to literally rewire brain patterns to create new habits, right. So that coupled with nutrition, which, you know, science tells us now is, you know, 50 to 80%, of… a dictator of what our health will be as we age, and as we go through life, right. And so when we couple those two things together, you can really experience extremely powerful change, when you come at it from the approach of not just what am I doing, but how and why should I be doing it, so that this is a lifestyle and it sticks... And I'm not falling off track all the time… 

SAMIA: Yes, yes, yes... And I think you're going back to the family aspect of this challenge, because, you know, I know like, for me, if I'm dealing with some kind of change that needs to happen, that's just about me, usually, I can discipline myself or use my happiness expertise in other ways to sort of make myself do what I want to do. But the moment that, you know, family dynamics get involved in the situation, like, with food… because, like I said, I live with my family, and we have our meals together. And most of the time, I'm not the one who's cooking… because my mom is an excellent cook, and she's totally spoiled me with her excellent cooking. Oh, my gosh, I cook and I disappoint myself. Oh my God, this food is not, just not so tasty as when my mom makes it... So you know, it's like, I've tried, I've tried, I literally have tried in so many cycles, I'm like, I'm taking charge. I'm gonna do the cooking, at least for myself, and, but I make enough for everyone to eat. But after a few weeks, invariably, everyone, like sick and tired of eating my cooking. They're like, we want mom's food... Yeah, and then, but my mom refuses to follow the rules that, like, I would want to follow, that I try to follow in terms of nutrition, because she's like, very… she likes to cook the way she cooks. And so we have this, like, struggle going in like how to create change, not just in me as an individual, but us as a family…

JENN: Absolutely. Yeah. And it's true, right. Because as I see this in my practice with mums that I'm working with… Oftentimes, they'll come to me with a couple of primary complaints about themselves. So either they're like really exhausted,and they just they don't have the energy to get through their day. They're gaining weight, or they've got this resistant weight that they can't seem to get rid of… the, you know, like the mummy pouch, that sort of thing. And they're just struggling to feel good. Like, they want to feel good, and they know what they need to do, but they can't, right. And so what they're saying to me is, you know, I start eating better, and it works when I'm not eating at home because I take it with me to go. But then we sit down to have dinner and nobody wants what I'm trying to eat, right. And everybody wants something else... And so it's funny you say this because it's the opposite experience for you, right. Like you as the, as the child experiencing this. And so, you know, when we're looking at the family as a whole unit, how do we still individualize everybody's eating styles and tastes, but still only make one meal… because at the end of the day, nobody wants to be in the kitchen cooking, like a restaurant…

SAMIA: yes…

JENN: …every day at home, right. And so, you know, in my practice, what we do is, we start with small changes… because you as an individual might be ready to do a huge overhaul on your life. But everybody else around you needs a little bit of time to buy into what you're doing. Right, they need a little bit of encouragement, they need a little bit of... they need to see that what you're doing is really going to be worth the change that you're asking them to make. And because it's not an intrinsic change for them, where they've come up with the idea, you're basically saying, like, I'm making these changes, since I make the food you're following along, tough luck for you, right. And so what ends up happening is, we get a lot of pushback from our children in that circumstance, because what we've done is we've taken away a lot of their independence and self-control. And so, you know, in my practice, what I like to do is, I like to implement very tiny changes stacked on top of one another… so I call them… I call it micro habit stacking. And it's a process of where we are very slowly integrating changes that you want to make with the entire family, so that everybody has this buy-in process and they get a little bit of a choice in how it's being implemented at home. And so, you know, the children are more likely to be less resistant to the changes… you know, more fruits and vegetables, less things like pogos, or pizza, or those convenience foods… less snackables… And moving more into those whole food regions, because they are being given the choice of what they want to eat, and yet still being offered and presented the foods that we want to start shifting to. And so there's a delicate balance in it all… but addressing it from that umbrella approach of, how do we, you know, individualize everybody's experience while making positive change, is where we focus.

SAMIA: Yeah, that sense of empowerment and buy-in is really, really important. I agree with you... You know, okay, so just thinking back to like my family's experience… one thing that we have… there are some changes, we have been able to get the whole family on board, and we have successfully implemented them. And you're exactly right, those changes are the ones where we all got buy-in. So for example, one of the changes that my mom made in the way that she cooks… and it's been really, really amazing actually… like, I didn't think this was possible in the context of Indian-Pakistani cooking, but she made it happen. So it's basically… what am I talking about, like I'm talking about… she has almost gone from using like so much like cooking oil to almost very little to none in most of the dishes that she makes. And you know, a lot of times like, like, we do this… like, we have this that technique, it's a core cooking technique, where you have to... traditionally what people do is like… take oil and throw a bunch of spices in there. And you sort of let those spices… I guess roast is not the right word… I don't know what the right word in English is. But it, you know, we call it “tarka”, we're making… preparing this “tarka” and then you pour that oil with the spices that have been like cooking in the oil all over, you know, various foods that we eat. And so you know, like, oil is a high-density food and if you're trying to cut down on your amount of fat and oil, all that, doing this kind of “tarka” technique is not the best strategy. And my mom actually figured out how to cook the spices… I don't know if that’s the right word… but whatever… Instead of doing it in oil, she does it in water. And the amazing thing is, I mean, it takes longer… like in oil, the thing just happens faster. But she does it in water. And it takes longer. But it's like, it tastes… and it tastes a little different... But tastes still really good, you know. And like my mom is known, even in our extended family circles, as a vegetarian cooking expert. Because especially in the Pakistani side of my family… Pakistanis don’t… Pakistani  people, most of them, are not great vegetarian cooks. They're huge meat eaters. But because my mom has all this Indian side of the family that she has learned from… after getting married to my dad, who is Indian, she went to India, lived there for 13 years. So she became an expert at vegetarian cooking, because Indian people are definitely experts at vegetarian cooking.

JENN: Absolutely.

SAMIA: And so... When, now, here in our extended family circles, whether it's that we’re mixing with our Indian side of the family, or Pakistani side of the family, my mom is always, like, you know, taking her cooking to the family gatherings. And they can't tell the difference. Not that they can't tell the difference. They can't tell that she has cooked oil-free, is what I mean when I say that they can't tell the difference. They're just eating. And they're, like, totally enjoying the food. Like, every time, there's nothing left of what my mom makes. And so we know, you know, it's like working. And most people don't even realize that she prepared the food in a oil-free, oil-free manner.

JENN: Yeah, exactly, right. And so it's all about making those tiny, tiny shifts. And you know, some of the best places to start is really just to start looking at alternatives. You know, what am I doing right now that I don't love or that I want to change... And how can I just find an alternative that's still just as convenient for me, and still delivers, you know, the experience that I'm looking for when it comes to my food… because, I mean, let's face it, food is an experience for all of us, whether it's good or bad, preferably, it's good, but you know, it is still an experience. And so how can we maintain the convenience and the experience, but make a healthier alternative or shift to what we're used to. And this is why changing family nutrition is so difficult because we ourselves grew up in a culture or an environment where we were taught a specific way to cook, a specific way to make our meals. And so there's this ingrained second nature that we have to our food. And that's what our family is now used to as well. And so when we're trying to make this change, basically what we're doing is we actually kind of have to start with like a tabula rosa, like a blank slate, and re-learn cooking practices, nutrition, you know, habit formation, and, and kind of restart from scratch and develop new skills. And this is why it's so difficult for so many to implement a nutrition habit and really actually make it a lifestyle…

SAMIA: Yeah, you know what you just made me think of Jenn, is that when I check out your feed on Facebook every so often, a lot of times I see you post delicious recipes where you're, you know… they're really delicious, and they're healthy at the same time. So in terms of like talking about the food eating experience, like, I think, gosh, you've posted so many excellent recipes, but I remember you've done also a number of desserts… and you know, sometimes like, wow, to have great dessert recipes that give you that, you know… that still trigger your pleasure centers, in terms of the memory of the textures and the feelings that you desire… I mean, sometimes those are the hardest... Because I mean sugar is pretty addictive. So like, you know… and sweet… not just sugar, but like that sweet profile. So it's like really, really cool that you have all of these awesome recipies.

JENN: Yeah, it is actually really cool. And you know, a lot of people, they might, you know, they might look at you know what I'm doing on social media and they think, oh, it's easy for her because she's a nutritionist… but I didn't get here overnight, right. What you're seeing is the better part of 10 years into my journey… you're not seeing the first day, the first week, the first month, the first year, the first five years of that journey, right. And that's simply just because I wasn't a nutritionist back then. I wasn't really on social media, I wasn't sharing what I do. But yeah, like to be able to make those little shifts and find those healthier alternatives, but still satisfy those desires that we get and those experiences, is a big deal. And one of the things, particularly with our children is that whatever we feed ourselves and our children, we are shaping our taste buds to crave that food or that taste or that texture... And so when we're looking at feeding the family, you know, it is going to take some time because your entire body, your microbiome, everything in your digestive system, your enzymes, they're all craving a specific style of eating that you're accustomed to. And so when we change, make changes to that, we do see a lot of aversion or resistance from the family, from ourselves even as well, right. Because we're just not accustomed to those flavors, those textures, those colors, those enzymes, those ingredients... And so we have some aversion and we do have some resistance. And what I like to see is that the more regularly we are presenting the right kinds of foods that we want to move towards, the more we're shaping those taste buds to actually desire that food. And so, you know, when it comes for your kids, I get a lot of moms say to me… oh, you know, my kid won't eat anything, they only like six things… You know, my daughter is almost seven, she's in the exact same phase right now. But I'm not letting it worry me because I know that as long as I continue to present the foods I'd like her to continue to try eating… and we do have a minimum trial rule in my house as well… but as long as I continue to present them, and as long as she's making an active effort to try them, then even though right now they're not her favorite, tomorrow they could be… in the same sense that today, you know, sweet potato might be your kid's favorite food, the only thing they're going to eat, and tomorrow they decide to hate it, right. It's the exact same circumstances... And so I really like to tell your families that keep presenting the foods that you want your children to try and just ask them to be courageous… if you are being courageous and modeling the behavior you want your kids to see, so you're sitting down, maybe you're trying a new food for the first time that you don't love, and you sit there and you say… you know… tell your family... Well, I've never had this before, I'm a little nervous about it, I'm gonna give it a go. Maybe I'm gonna like it, maybe I'm not, but I'm going to try. And when we set that precedent, that's sort of the expectation within the family, you know, everybody will follow suit, because they're gonna see you doing it. And so you can sit there and say… wow, I really didn't enjoy that, but I'm glad I tried it. Or, you know… I didn't like that ingredient in this way. Maybe I'll try making it differently next time and see if I like it that way… And it just… it gives your children and your family the opportunity to see that it's okay to not like a food but we should still try. And then don't rule it out if it didn't, you know, pass your standards in that first taste testing. Because, you know, we can take anywhere between seven and 13 food exposures before we're actually accustomed to it and we want it. So keep trying. Like, just be relentless in a super positive way...

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, you know, now you're making me think about all the times my mom… she has so many stories of how she made us love to eat different foods. And one of my favorite stories… because there's now one of my all-time favorite foods that she makes… or dishes… is this vegetable stew that she does. And she's like… you guys didn't love eating vegetables either. And I don't know where she learned this stew recipe from, but it's like an English stew actually. And so it's relatively mild in terms of the spices and all that are used in it. So it tastes very different from. you know, the food that we would normally have in India and Pakistan. And so in some ways, you know, I guess maybe it was the novelty of the taste that attracted us… but it was a vegetable stew. And now, interestingly, the way my mom made it, it was like full of different vegetables. And every time she would make it, she'd be like putting in different vegetables in it. And she would… I don't know if this is necessarily the best thing from a nutritional point of view, but in some ways… the technique that she used was that she would cook the vegetables so much in the stew that they'd become really easy to mash. And so basically what… the way she had us eat it was… we had lots of rice. I mean, you know, in our culture, rice is a base to pretty much everything that we eat. And then she would pour all the stew with the vegetables in it, and then mash, either mash the vegetables for us when we were young… later we would just mash them ourselves… you just mash up all the vegetables, and it would be like really easy because they were cooked really soft. And then you just add something crunchy… like, you know, we have, you know, it may be a fresh cut salad of like cucumbers and tomatoes, or a little bit of raw onion or something… because all of these things are very common, like, sides that we have in Indian-Pakistani food to give crunch to our food when there isn't crunch from other sources. Like, you know, for example, our all-time favorite combination of food that we had is rice and lentils… nothing crunchy in rice and lentils. But we love to have some crunch. So then we'll, you know, add some raw salad along with that food to go. So we use the same technique with this stew. Or at least my mom, that's what she started doing. And so then we were eating the stew with all these mashed up vegetables and it wasn't like… we didn't focus on the vegetable part. We just loved the taste.

JENN: Yeah. Exactly.

SAMIA: Yeah, and it's just that... I, every time like my mom makes that stew, to this day, it’s just mouth-watering… thinking about it right now…

JENN: But you're right… so the more often it is presented or presented in a way that is pleasurable for the people at your table… so, you know, for example, you know, maybe that stew had like cooked carrots and cooked peas, right. But if you were presented raw carrots and raw peas, you might say, you don't want those and not eat them, right. And so even though your child might like cooked carrots, that doesn't mean that they like raw carrots. And so the seven to 13 exposures is literally one type of food cooked in one specific way, presented to you seven to 13 times, right. And so now they've accommodated or they've acclimatized to cooked carrots. But now you got to do the same thing for raw carrots. And so it's important when we're, you know, making our food, to put it in a way that's enjoyable for your kids. So, you know, make it in a traditional meal that they enjoy, or start to put it into other foods that they enjoy and put it as a side piece of it, or you know, that sort of component. And so that allows your children to see it, to play with it, to taste it, to try it, to be exposed to it without any pressure either, right... Because when we remove pressure around what's at the tabe... for example, if you sat down at the table, and you fed your kids pizza and beer, you would not be sitting there going, you drink your beer and eat your pizza, right. Like, we just don't do that... But so why don't we do that when we give them a plate of vegetables… you sit there and eat your vegetables… it just doesn't make sense, right. And so we want to have a pressure-free experience that's positive but still has some boundaries… because our children do have to eat, we do have to give them good nutrition. And so just having, you know, in my house, I use the eight-bite rule. So my daughter is almost seven. So right now she's at six bites. So if it's a new food that she's never tried, or that I've made and I know she doesn't like, she has to do a minimum of six bites from it in order for me to be satisfied that she has given it an effort, to know that she's got it, gotten in her nutrition and that sort of thing. So, you know, that's another sort of way to set a boundary and expectation without sitting there and forcing them to eat something that they really truly don't like… because we just, you know… the other component of what I see in my practice is unhealthy relationships with our food… because we have grown up in those cultures of… finish what's on your plate, whether you like it or not, and whether you're full or not. And so you know… or… you didn't eat your lunch so that's what I'm serving you for dinner… And so there's this unhealthy relationship with food components that I see as well. And so we can actually kind of avoid a lot of that by just having, you know, gentle, positive boundaries and expectations of providing that experience of independence...

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah, and you're right about in terms of also thinking about it in age appropriate ways. With younger kids you do maybe need to be a little bit more directive. But... and still do it in, in a gentle way, as you were giving the brilliant example. And if someone's older, like in my household, that’s definitely, like, you know, trying to force each other into eating this or that or doing anything, is a no-go…

JENN: Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. One of the other things I really like is, you know, trying to get your husband or your spouse on board, right… So they may not like the food that you're eating, but have the conversation with them, that they're also going to have a positive experience, or relay their experience positively. So for example, sometimes I make a meal that I know my husband doesn't like, but it was my night to pick dinner. That's what was on the menu. That's what I wanted to make. That's what I make... And he'll say to me, and he’ll say it at the table so everybody can hear… you know, this isn't my favorite dish, but I really appreciate the work you put into it, and I love it anyways… right. And so there's that positive reinforcement that he's going to eat it, that it's not his favorite, he would have preferred something else, but he appreciates that somebody else made him the meal, so he's not going to complain about it. And so we're just, we're just reinforcing the behavior that we want to see by modeling it. And it can make a big difference between, you know, your spouse sitting at the table and saying… ahh, this again! I hate this... right… and just the lack of appreciation… like, all of that is obviously, like, levels of it. But in terms of instilling healthy nutrition habits, is that, you know, having those conversations with your spouse as well to ensure that you're both on the same page about how those conversations are happening at the table. And it's, it's, it… they're game changers. And they don't happen overnight. Like, it's a slow process. But that's why we look at your micro habit stacking so that you're continuously moving forward, and you're never really stalling in the progress that you're making...

SAMIA: Yes, and you just made me think about also, you know, the idea of… what is our belief or our thinking about, why we eat in the first place? Like what's the function of food in our life?

JENN: Yes.

SAMIA: Because is it always about pleasure, that I'm eating to receive some kind of pleasure, or are there other functions to our eating as well.. And so when we think about what we are eating, and when we're eating… and not just looking… so, so thinking about it from that bigger picture perspective of, okay, it's not just this one meal that be it, the end all, or, you know... Like, this is not the only meal I'm going to have…

JENN: Exactly...

SAMIA: And what are the different functions and the purposes that I'm trying to fulfill with all the foods that I eat throughout my day, and throughout the week, and the month, and the year?

JENN: Exactly, yeah, that you've got an umbrella view, right, that 30,000-foot view... And that's something that, you know, I try to teach in my practice as well is that… let's shift our… you know, most of us eat, first of all out of habit. And second of all, just out of obligation. And we do so without thinking because we have to do it so often in our day that we just we go on autopilot. We make sure it gets done and we move on with our day. And so really it comes down to, let's be more mindful and really think about why do we eat. Well, the biological reason we eat is to fuel our body. It is to have good energy, proper health, you know, toxin removal, proper growth, good development, you know, good brain processes and synapses and all of that stuff. And so, when we shift our mindset and our beliefs systems that food is just a habit that we do, to... food is literally what's fueling your body every day, then it actually becomes easier to make more intentional decisions about what we eat… because you're going to look at this and say… you would, for example… and I love this... if marketing convinced us that a pile of dust tasted good, we would eat a pile of dust… in the exact same way that marketing has convinced us that chips and pop and candy and cakes and desserts are/taste good. And so, you know, when we start to look at those types of unhealthy foods, as exactly what they are, non-fuel sources, we kind of start to second guess why we eat them. Like, we, you know, if you looked at a pile of dust, you would never imagine putting that in your mouth or putting it in your body. And so, you know, when we start to really think about whole food as being a fuel source and being the biological, cellular requirement for our bodies, then when we look at everything else, it's like, "Ooh, is that really what I want to put in my body?" Right? And so we can really shift that intrinsic motivator for ourselves to make the decisions to actually create a new habit.

SAMIA: Yeah, oh, my gosh... you know, you just made me think about one of the lessons that I learned in my biology class all the way back when I was in high school. And basically, the point that… it just, for some reason, I don't know why I was so shocked to realize this when this came up in class, but the... it's like if you look at our bodies, and what our bodies are made of, like the molecules, the cells, etc… the atoms that makeup... like, where does all this stuff come from? It's the food that we eat. The only thing that we use, in terms of our body's needs and functioning, that doesn't come from our food, it's like the oxygen that we breathe. And, you know, the sunlight that creates the vitamin D for us that we need. But everything else is the food that we eat. I mean, literally. And when… before you're born, it's like the food that your mom's eating. So it's like, we are what we eat, literally. We are what we eat. And so if you're eating trash, it's like you're putting in… like, the very stuff that you are using to create and maintain your body… if that is not the best quality... You know, like the… it's like, of course, it's going to impact your health. Of course, it's going to impact your health.

JENN: Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely, yeah... And I think, you know, on some level, I think all of us know this. It's just so far behind our brains because there's so much marketing in front of it, and belief systems, and thought processes, and you know, self-sabotage... And there's a lot of components layered in front of it, that we have trouble accessing that information to remind us that this is the case, right. And so it is really kind of… it's exciting when we come to that realization, and when it comes forward to us, and we're like, oh my gosh, yes... Like, I want to feel good. Like, I want to put the best things into my body because I want to take care of it, right. And, you know, you can go out and buy a new car any day, but you cannot buy a new body. And the medical system is great for extending the life of your body, but it is not going to extend the quality. And that is really honestly up to us... That is our obligation to ourselves, to put the best types of fuel, and oils, and resources, into our body to have the most pristine sports car for as long as you sport... like as long as you possibly can.

SAMIA: Yes, the quality of life issue is so key because… I mean, people are living longer and longer now. And in some ways, you're like, Oh, what a blessing that the lifespan’s increased. And there is this obsession that we as humans have with our own survival and wanting to live as long as possible. But I think oftentimes we do not pay enough attention to this quality of life issue… until it's too late, in the sense that, we have aged and we are already in really bad health and we're suffering the consequences of that. And then, you know, you begin to value this idea of quality of life. But a lot of times, by that point in time, you have done irreversible damage to so many aspects of your health. Hopefully, there's still things that you can reverse and improve and control. But in many cases, like, oh, my gosh… now I'm thinking about so many elders in my family who basically lost their mobility and, you know, had pain even moving, like with arthritis. You know, and arthritis, turns out... Western medicine has no cure for it. It can help you deal with some of the symptoms, but it has no cure for it. But you know, in traditional Indian medicine, ayurvedic system, and for that matter in other traditional forms of health… and like, for example, I know, in the Chinese traditional health system… they're like… First of all, if you proper practice... if you practice proper nutrition and health and wellness, as they teach in these systems, you don't even develop arthritis. And for people who have developed arthritis, that actually can be completely reversed through good nutrition…

JENN: Yeah, it's absolutely incredible. It's amazing... And, you know, and that's why, you know, you might be sitting here listening, thinking, "Oh, my kids are pretty good eaters. It's not such a big deal, right." But you know, when we think about the fact that what we're feeding them now is not only going to impact their health now, but also later... But it also impacts how they'll eat as they age, and when they grow up, and the habits that they're going to commit to, right. So, you know, I honestly believe that child nutrition is probably one of the most important services that we could give to our children as parents. I mean, there, of course, there's many… but giving them the right start to their nutritional habits in life is so crucial, because you're literally going to be impacting their health, now, their health later, the habits they take on, the decisions that they make, and even the DNA of their future grandchildren, or of their future children, meaning your future grandchildren. And you know, like we I know, we talked a little bit about that in our last podcast episode about the levels of generations that we impact by diet and lifestyle... And so you know, you are literally changing the life of your child and your future unborn, unthought-of, grandchildren… by the habits that you commit to right now with your children. And, you know, if the weight of that feels really heavy and scary, don't worry. I feel it every day too, like, it's pretty intense. And that's why breaking it down into micro habits, and just making small shifts in your day-to-day can be so impactful in making long-term changes within the whole family.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. I love this insight that you're giving… because I think sometimes we build up unrealistic expectation. And if you have unrealistic expectations, it's sort of like sets you up for failure, regardless of the area of change that you're trying to make. So this is such a key insight, Jenn, thank you so much for bringing the reality... or realistic, no… the realistic perspective on this…

JENN: Yes. Yeah.

SAMIA: Yeah.

JENN: Yeah, I mean, I really, truly believe that food is medicine... And, you know, when we treat our bodies with the highest standards, we will get amazing things out of it. And I’ve lived the journey of that. And like, I wasn't perfect. I'm still not perfect... But I've experienced what food does to our body, and it's there... When your eyes have been opened to it, there's no turning back.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. And, oh… it's so true. It's so true... It's like, at least now with all the struggles that I'm still facing, at least now I have that sense of awareness and that sense of responsibility… Like, for me, when I think about taking responsibility for my health and wellness, I do it from the perspective of, you know, recog... My favorite definition of responsibility is… recognizing that your response-able… You know, so rather than thinking of it as, like, a burden that I have, recognizing that I'm response-able… So it's like, when I make a choice, I know I'm making a choice. That I'm able to make this choice. And it's not just something that I'm doing because I can't help it… because, you know, like, you know, out of addiction, or just blind following this or that… It's like, no, I'm making this choice. I'm choosing to behave in this way and doing it with some awareness of the consequences. And so, if sometimes I make a choice that's not the most optimal, it's like, okay, okay… You know, sometimes you want to focus on other values or goals in terms of… like, if I'm really stressed, eating some extra sugar can help me feel a little bit calm in the moment. And it's like, I will allow myself that leeway and not blame and judge myself. But in general, it's like, you know, just asking myself, "Do I really want to eat this cookie right now? Is this really going to make me feel good, feel better?" And most of the time, the answer is no. And most of the time, I'm able to now just put it away. And it's like, really awesome...

JENN: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, and that's the biggest thing is that …having choice, right. Because when we have choice, we always have that opportunity. And the last thing you want to do is get yourself into a situation of health where you no longer have choice... And I think, you know, that goes back to the quality of life that you talked about, where we get to a point where we only start thinking about it when there's damage happening. And so, you know, the great thing is right now you get to choose that path, and you get to choose that path every time you eat, right. And it doesn't have to be perfect every time. Like, if you're sitting here thinking there's no way that I could live up to the expectations of what you're saying, that's okay. Because it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be intentional...

SAMIA: Yes, yes. Because I remember… who said this… that… like somebody was really freaking out about the idea of eating chocolate cake. Like, this person had not eaten chocolate or sweets, for like, I don't know how many years. And on this one occasion, they were like… I want it, I want it, I want it… I can't... And they were like freaking out about the idea of eating it. And somebody said that, you know, it's not what you eat one time that's going to have an impact on your health. It's what you eat as a habit… Like, the things that you eat habitually, like on a regular basis, those are the things that are really going to… that do impact your health. Something that you eat once in a while... I mean, even if it's full of unhealthy stuff, you know what? Your body is just going to flush it out. And it's going to have that ability and that capacity. You know, it's only when you know you're eating something that's not good for you and you eat it over and over and over and over again, that you can compromise your body's ability to properly flush out these toxins and unhealthy things. Otherwise, our bodies are like amazingly self-healing and self-cleaning, and you know, all of that good stuff.

JENN: Absolutely.

SAMIA: So don't really have to worry about what you might do once in a while.

JENN: Exactly, exactly.

SAMIA: Oh, my gosh… Jenn, I'm having so much fun talking with you. And I think we might need to start wrapping up... Do you have any last thoughts you would like to share with us?

JENN: I'm just I think that you know, if you're feeding your family and it feels difficult, just take it one tiny habit at a time… just break it down. Have conversations with the family, even with your kids… and involve them in the process. Get them to help you in the kitchen, help them help you meal prep or make a menu for the week. And just the more that you can model the behavior you want to see, the easier it's going to be… and just let it go... You know, don't put so much pressure on it. Just enjoy the process and everyone will follow suit with you.

SAMIA: Yeah, and my little tip will be to get some help and support from a brilliant person like Jenn because, you know, sometimes just having that awesome recipe that tastes so good and it's still healthy… that can be the key to, you know, your kids don't want to eat this to, yes, they do want to eat this… or you don't want to eat this to, yes, you do want to eat this… because now you have a recipe that allows you to really enjoy that food.

JENN: Exactly. Yeah, exactly…

SAMIA: Yeah. All right. So with that, please, to all of you who are listening... make sure you check the show notes because we will be adding Jenn's links in there so you can connect with her and get the help and support you need whenever you're ready for it. And until we connect next time, I wish you lots and lots of peace and joy... :)