SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet!

It's really, really good to be with you again. And I know, I hope, you will be very glad that you have joined us today, because we have a very special guest joining us today. And we'll be talking about a topic that I'll be honest, we haven't dealt with before on this podcast... So this is a little bit of an experiment for us. But, you know, I really hope it's something that's going to be beneficial. And so that's why we're doing this. So what am I talking about? Let me tell you who our guest is, first of all… so our guest is Ponsi. Ponsi is the founder of Forever Wealth Center. And I will let her tell you more about herself in just a little bit. I will just say, like, right now that, you know, our primary topic for today is not about what Ponsi does for her work normally, you know, which is holistic health, holistic healing... We are going to be covering a different topic. We're going to be talking about our loved ones who have passed away, and what we have experienced in that context and preparing for the passing away of a loved one, or maybe even your own self eventually… because both Ponsi and I have recently lost people in our lives close to us. And, you know, we have been finding it helpful to talk to each other about our experiences. And we hope, as I said, that it will be helpful for you also. So that was my little heads-up for you on what's coming up in this episode. And now I will let Ponsi come up and speak for herself. So welcome, Ponsi... Thank you so much for joining us today.

PONSI: Well, thank you so much for having me here. This is… been so excited, I was counting down to meet with you this evening on the topics that I'm not an expert, but I know, it's one of those, we all have to face it... So I would like to share my recent experience with you and your audience. And, and I love your opening. I mean, this is just warm and welcome and transparent. Your show is gonna be different today. My background is in wellness. And I give my own title as Wellness Engineer, my background is really, really all Science in Human Factors engineering. But somehow the calling is different. But I kind of merged the two worlds by being creative and blend creativity from my left brain with my right brain. And in the past decades I discovered that my calling is actually in helping other people heal in the wellness world. Also preserving my background, which is from Thailand… I have lived here in United States since 1980. So I'm kinda like, born in Thailand and made in America category… I just face my long lost friend, my husband, you know, he passed exactly eight months to the day today. He's been gone, you know… the world is… now my world is different without him in it…

This is a new canvas for me to basically, like, paint anything I want... But going back to the past eight months, I just want to emphasize that we all have deadlines. 

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: You know.

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: And to be prepared. That it's really, really, really, really, really, really important... My husband and I, we were not prepared. 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: …no idea... No will… we had no idea of each other passwords. No matter… I mean if… even if you write it down I'm sure you're going to face a lot more challenges. But all I can tell you is there are so many coaches and helpers out there as far as not just support, like, laying down the foundation. Like, did you know, there's a EOL coach...

SAMIA: Tell me more... What is EOL?

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PONSI: End Of Life Coach... so big, I didn't even know there's such thing as end of life coaching. 

SAMIA: Whoa! Me neither. 

PONSI: So I can share with you, you know, and give you referral. I met this lady, probably five years ago through, you know, the programs that I was involved in. And I was like, "What is this lady all about?" You know, I'm like, nobody wants to talk about end of life... You know, why do I want to be coached? But bless me, it is really, really, really now that I'm facing my own, you know, loss, she so much help if I were to talk to her first. But while I was in that… class, it was basically entrepreneurial stuff, you know. I'm all about business... All my life, I focus on business first, family second. You know, so that program… we had like a hot seat. And she came up that she wants to develop this program for end-of-life. And I was like, I was really turned off… scared of, like, what the heck… But toward the end of our class, our teacher, our coach, actually hire her... Do you know why? His own dad was going through hospice care for prostate cancer… final, like, three and four stages... So he shared all that information with the students. And I resonate with… you respect the person who's not well… so they actually went to the best oncologist, doctors… So in the past two years, I follow his dad's path. But at the very end, his choice was, he wants to go on his own term. And I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, we can't, we can't… I don't want to attend this kind of meeting." And I got a break because of this end-of-life coach was actually probably guiding him. 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: And his dad... How do you want to prepare your final moment? So they actually... I don't think they move but they chose this one state, Oregon, I think that is legal. I had an honor to be there as a student to witness his end of life. It was traumatic... It was unique. It was like… I didn't know what my religion background was at that time, except I know I was born Buddhist. But I'm like, this is the same as taking your own life? You could go straight down, you know… but if he knows as a free spirit that always like outdoor hiking, Harley Davidson guy, and he suffered all those years because the loved one want him to live, right. So you go through all the treatment, chemo, modern, traditional, holistic… and at the end, he knows he got to go one day, but he didn't want to suffer... So this end-of-life coach who was his students become the coach and coach them. And it was such an experience that I walked away from that class... it wasn't even a class that he would just like extra invitation if you want to join my family. 

SAMIA: Yes. 

PONSI: It was a party… all the family, the brothers, the sisters, aunts and uncles… they celebrated... Dad was basically in the bedroom, coherent, and he knows exactly what's going on, you know… and all it was was a cup with the pill… and I don't know… I mean, if I were him, would I have chosen that path? I don't know... But as him, you have to respect his choice, how he want his EOL to be… 

SAMIA: Yeah. Yeah. 

PONSI: …without having to suffer, without having to go through financial burden, you know... But that's why not focused on how you want to go. But my point is, there are helps out there, not just counseling after someone is gone, but prior, before, so you can make the decision not just in, you know, financial with the will and estates and living will, but the process of before, during and after, and I'm sure grieving. And all of that is coaching. 

SAMIA: Yes. Yes... That's a great point Ponsi that there's so much that goes into being as prepared as you can be for your own passing or someone else's passing. I mean, like you said earlier, in some ways, you can never be prepared… there will always be, you know, a certain amount of discovery… things that you will find yourself feeling, or experiencing, or you know, just things that come up that you didn't anticipate, even if you have done all your preparations... But in so far as we can prepare, a lot of times, I've noticed that, you know, people talk about just the logistical things like, Do you have a will? Do you, you know... I know my father really got into sort of this and he discovered that here in America, you know, oftentimes having a will is not enough, you have to… like depending on your financial condition, you may need to create different kinds of legal entities like trusts and so forth to, like, really, truly protect your assets and to be able to pass them on to your loved ones after you without they're getting taxed, and, you know, having to go through all kinds of troubles. But that's just one aspect of the kind of preparation you might need. But what about getting prepared at a mental level, at an emotional level, at a physical level... What are some things that you have been discovering or practicing that have been helping you? Or as you look, if you think about in terms of hindsight, what would you advise somebody to do to prepare, let's say, at a mental and emotional level?

PONSI: Okay. This kind of overlaps... 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: Because the severity of the… how to cope after the loss of a loved one, that also depends on how well prepare for your final departure. You know with us, we didn't get to say goodbye. We didn't... we actually had a mini fight just before that night, you know… I mean, so it's really deep, as far as the guilt, the blame, the shame, should have, would have, you know... So that means for me to help myself out of that regret I have to do more work in the mental part. 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: Compared to someone who's been on, you know, who's been ill for a while, then you have a chance to say whatever it is still on your mind. So, you know, love each other, hate each other, forgiveness... Where did you hide the treasures, you know, and all of that. Then, when that final day came and you, you know, you part each other... Yes, you can cope better.

So with my situation what had helped me the most was the breathing... meditation… It is really… you know, there's in Thai, it's like, it's just like in India, you know, there's, there's four elements right… earth, air, fire, water… You know, when your body breaks down, everything starts shutting off before you come to that final breath and death, before the organs shut down, right... So I just kind of re-live that… which is, to me, I really go to the core that I have to face that moment one day too. So I have to be brave and not afraid of death. So when I breath, this is the essence of life... So it's not about going “Om Shanti Shanti”, it's about gratitude. You know, you can say everything and everything from this guru from that teacher or whatever. But without this simple exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide in our body… and if you're not mindful about these four elements, that eventually, everything breaks down and goes away... you no longer can breathe… inhalation exhalation... So to me, that's, that's what I found the most beneficial is coming to senses that the fourth one is awareness of your breath. It's up to you… How do you want to greet death... More like a guest at the door… the griefs, the darkness, the devil, whatever it is that take your loved one away… Or, you know... So it's your choice. If you're aware, are you gonna welcome this guest. Or you're going to chase it away? …As far as awareness… be mindful of your emotion. Are you sad? Are you mad? Are you angry? Then if you know that moment, you can't go back in the past. Because what's done is done... 

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: Go in the present… it is the breathing, the breath... And if you move forward into the future… that's why when we talk early, all that just come into surface, once I realize… I still have a life to live…

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: It matter what it is in the future… whether you believe in reincarnation, you're going to be with God… wherever you go, it's this lifeline between the first breath that you take once you comes out of your mother's womb, and a final breadth. So if you hook yourself up to any machine, you know, that's why this graph up and down, you know, we all have our up and down, up and down. That's what living and life is all about. So it's up to you whether you want to rely on pharmacy, drugs, alcohol, you know… because if you cannot cope, you know, you're going to relies on bandages, which is not a true help to get out of your situation. So to your question, in short, it's really being mindful meditation. And you can practice it from you know, walking meditation, sitting meditation, even when you laying down… because I learned from the Buddhist monks as we go, you can go so deep and there's so many gateways, because if not, you can really put yourself in a hallucination world. If you not… if your mind not grounded and strong enough that if you hear something, sense something, that could be your mind playing a trick on you, especially if you're deeply scarred from your emotion, from the trauma... 

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, to be present in the moment, to be grateful for your own breath in the moment, that is very, very grounding. And as you were talking, you know, you made me think of, like, so many different things. I was reminded of, you know, in the Muslim tradition, when we hear that somebody passes away, the traditional response that we are taught, is to say, “to God we belong and to God is our return”... And I think there's a similar language or teaching in the Christian tradition also, like “from dust to dust”, or something along those lines. And it was just making me think about also, like, from a mental-emotional preparation perspective... Because, you know, when you feel distress and that sense of trauma at losing someone, those feelings are a reflection of how we are thinking, and what we believe about death, you see... And so I think what the… at least, like, for example, these spiritual traditions, what they're trying to teach us, is to begin to sort of shift our perspective a little bit and to remember, as you were saying that, you know, the end is coming for all of us in terms of life in this world. And so if you can sort of begin to shift your perspective, and to realize that, and then maybe that’s part… it becomes part of the preparation as it were for, you know, that moment, whether it is that you're facing it for yourself, or when it comes for somebody that you love… that you realize, okay, okay... You know, it's like, we keep not wanting to face the fact that we all have to... 

PONSI: Right, right... 

SAMIA: ..meet this end but it's actually a huge aspect of our reality, of our lives. And so perhaps part of our preparation is that we just remember this, and we remind ourselves of this. Because also one thing that you kept mentioning, Ponsi, that, you know, really touching for me is, you know, that if you remember this, then you can take action to say what you need to say, to express the love that you need to express and, you know, do what you would love to do… you know, like, you were saying that you are now going to make the time to travel and do the traveling that you want, because you're not willing to put it off any longer, you know…

PONSI: Fascination, like, "No, I'm not gonna leave dirty dishes in this scene", you know, because then somebody have to clean up after me. That's really a motivating plus side, you know. Do I have to, like, be perfect at everything? No, but it makes you really look at life really different. And if you have your priority in life, your life direction, wherever you want to go, then you kind of like put a fire on the priority even more, instead of,  "Oh, it could be next day, it could be next week..." Because you always can choose... How do I put it... People always procrastinate, right? I have excuses for everything. But if that's what you really, really, really want…

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: …you will manifest, it will happen, whether it was money or time off or anything at all…

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: All is between… like my husband and I we just like… Okay, we'll still have time, you know, tomorrow, no promising.. With the Buddhist way as well, when you chant, it is always you supposed to think about death actually every moment. And that's why I really dislike going to Buddhist service. Because that's what the monks, the Buddha, always, constantly remind you all. Because, you know, deadlines always out there, but you don't want to know it. You always in denial. So every time we chant or something… it's also every breath that you take, you always think of death. And I'm thinking, Okay, I'm learning law of attraction, why do I want to attract death? Now I know, you know… it's reality, you know…

SAMIA: Yeah, and you know, you just made me think about… from like, a Buddhist perspective… And please, correct me if I'm wrong, I've only studied a little bit of Buddhist philosophy and so forth… But, you know, one of the core teachings of Buddhism is about how to end our suffering in this life. Because it's like life, in some ways, life is suffering… if you're alive, if you're living in this world, you will suffer. But the Buddha went on the quest to figure out how to end the suffering, you know. And one of the lessons that I learned in studying Buddhits philosophy, about what the Buddha taught about how to end our own suffering, is to sort of let go of our attachment to things that we cannot control... And so the thing, one of the most significant things we cannot control is when we will die, or if we will die… we will die and we don't know when we will die... And that's not something that we can control. So the more we try to control it, you know… that wanting to control, that attempting to control actually becomes a cause for suffering in life. And so by letting go of our attachment, and our need to control our end of life, or to deny it, or to, you know, try and run away from it, if we just let that go, then we can actually eliminate at least that cause of suffering…

PONSI: You are right on. Yeah, that's basically the core dominant teaching -- end of suffering or nirvana... So basically, you don't want to have to come back… you can… let's say if you believe in reincarnation, you can go to become I don't know, angel, deva, and all that. But all of that is also impermanent. Eventually, if you have a privilege to become another human… because after our physical body is gone, you become just a form of energy frequency… whatever, if you let's say, come back as another baby, you have to have a soul ...to be suffering again. So the Buddha saw that for 1000s and 1000s and 10,000s and millions of years. So that's why he said being human is suffering, but we are here to learn the lessons. 

SAMIA: Yeah. 

PONSI: Why… I came up with you know, “do good for good”... Don't just do good for you, for you, or for you. I do good because it's a good thing… do good for good... And that’s if there’s a next life… if is there's a next galaxy… we all know now, you know, with all those telescopes and satellite, there's are many, many other possibility of other lives besides human exist somewhere... So who is there to stay after we transform into this invisible light energy we're not going to be floating out to another galaxy or universe, you know what I mean? So it is pointless to argue all of that, but just do good while we're here…

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. So to stay present in the moment. I think that is another really big, huge emphasis in Buddhist teachings, is it not… that, you know, like you were saying, to focus on your breath, to be grateful for the breath that you have right now. And so then that way you can let go of your worries of the future, of what might be coming, or what is coming, and just be present in the moment. Yeah.

PONSI:  …the Buddhist teaching is basically the law of nature. That's it. 

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. 

PONSI: Life is this exchange with oxygen or chemical exchange, you know, just breathing... that's it. But people capitalize on this, you know, "Breathe this way. Do it that way..." I’m like… to me, whatever works…

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: …whatever works. But getting back to, you know, supports is out there. The more you prepare, just like doing homework in any subjects, this EOL subject, the more you prepare, the more you're going to be straight A student. If you not prepare like me, I flunked all the way... So I just like, okay, I'm not really smart at this topic. But guess what? I can repeat this subject, this class, and get better at it.

SAMIA: Yeah, and I will say Ponsi that you have not flunked… I mean, yes, it was really shocking for you. And it was a very, very difficult time. But the fact that you're here, you're talking with us about this… you know, this is proof that you had enough strength, you had enough know-how, you had enough capacity to deal with even that trauma and to, you know… you did what you could do, and it has brought you to this point, and you're going to continue to do better, I trust that. And you're going to continue to heal and learn and grow from that. So you have not flunked. I don't think so…

PONSI: Oh, you didn't see me the first month. But all in all, it's this really… it is, you know, it's… I don't even know what to say… it's like, I become an example for other people. My clients, they all learn from Russ and I now. This… we… it just couldn't happen, no way… Ponsi’s in the wellness world. No way that her husband is gone, she's a Wellness Coach, she's a Wellness Engineer. Her husband is Dr. Russ, you know. So sometimes, we're just like, wow, if it can happen to them, it can happen to us. So indirectly transforming many lives so far.

SAMIA: And that's something I’m really appreciating about you Ponsi. Because as hard as it has been for you, you are still finding that in your heart… that compassion, and that will to help other people, even now… Thank you so much for that. I so appreciate it…

PONSI: Yeah, I appreciate you because for me to talk about my own experience, it's really is a true healing journey. And I hope you and your audience can, you know, can not just having sympathy, empathy, kindness, you know… but take what you can you know, even one thing, you know to improve your life, your current life… even just knowing how to breathe better... And all this resources that I have, none of this is going to be helpful if you're not grounded, if you're not stable… Because if we were going to talk about well, how do you prepare the will and all that, you can get online, you can go anywhere. And the best resource is actually the funeral home. I would never even thought about that. But after I approached them, the way they approached me, I'm like, wow… And everything is basically all free. It's like right here… how to select certain things, you know, like how do you want to be buried? How do you want to be remember? So, the statistics, the… I mean, I'm like, wow, I don't even need a lawyer. And, yeah, counseling and all that, too… If you just have your neighbor, your best friend, that can understand, you just need to not grieve alone. Talk about it… Groups always out there, you know… You don't have to go through this alone.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. You know, sometimes you want to be alone for some time, and that's okay. But eventually, you know, the path to healing is to go back out into the world, to reconnect with other people. Because we are, by nature, we are social creatures. We are not meant to live alone for extended periods of time, or to suffer all by ourselves for extended periods of time. So if you need to be by yourself for a few days, a few weeks, you know, take that time… But also just try to keep in mind that eventually, you will want to begin to take steps and reach out to other people and reconnect with other people and get help and support... And, you know, one thing that… my gosh, who was... I was talking about this with one of my cousins who recently lost her husband. So my brother in law basically passed away. And in his case, also, it was a very sudden passing, it was unexpected… he was in his 40s. So like a young person…. But in any case, one of the things that my cousin was sharing is that, you know… not everyone is willing or able to talk to you about everything in terms of… like, you have, like, so many different needs in this kind of situation, you need so many different kinds of help. Some, in some cases, you know, you may need legal help, legal advice, because complications might arise in that direction. And let's say you have a family member and they love you and they care about you, but they're not a legal scholar, they're not a lawyer. So they may not be able to talk to you about that and help you in that context… but they can support you in other ways. You know, there might be other kinds of help that you need that, you know, your lawyer cannot provide you.

PONSI: Right, right.

SAMIA: So there's going to be different people who can be there for you in different ways. And so just kind of try to stay open to receiving love from different people in different ways.

PONSI: You’re right on. And I was, I wasn't there for that since I'm always giving, helping others... So my cousin came that same day. She about to smack me if she could… she said, "You've been giving all your life, it's your turn to receive..." Because I was pushing her… you don't have to spend a night here, you don't have to help me. I will manage to live in this house, you know, the way it is. And she know I would need somebody especially the first day or two. So she grabbed my cell phone, she programs everything. She goes, when's your trash go out? What day? What time? When do you feed your dogs? When you feed your… we got a tortoise… the fish… And I didn't even think of that… Because when you're so fragile you don't even know time of day, day of the week, because you have to deal with legals crap you know... like, you know, so offer help. Because she had done this before to her other friends and clients but I was turning her away.

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: So you are right, you know… accept help when you need it. And even like the funeral expense… when they just gave me the money, I feel like, I am not a charity case. Russ is not a charity case. We are very private people. We don't ask for help, you know. Reality set in when she said, "You've been helping many others, it's time to receive..." And that was greatest lessons in this part of life. Because I do need help financially, emotionally, you know… just a simple thing as programming the cell phone to feed the animals, you know, take the trash…

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: …just paper stuff, the legal stuff, the lawyers stuff…. So you were right.

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: …and support each other. Because people don't know what to say to you because they never face… even if they face it…

SAMIA: Yes. That's true…

PONSI: …they don't know what to say…

SAMIA: That's so true…

PONSI: …becasue every situation is different.

SAMIA: Yeah. Yeah…

PONSI: But as long as you don't... like you said, as long as you don't stay alone for so long… Or if you really know you do need help, then you seek professional help. This other incident… this is over like a year or two… She never left this couch... Never even gone out to eat and bye grocery… her family basically bring groceries to her, because her husband passed on that sofa... unexpected… so she is attached to that sofa and she doesn't know how to grieve. Finally, they have professional help.

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: And after a year or two, she finally came out of the house and starting with, you know, moving the furniture painting. No, I don't think they went as far. The Counselor basically, the therapist said, what's one thing you would like to do? She said I would like to sleep in my own bed. But it was like, she didn't know how to grieve. She didn't know how to come out of that, you know, bubble… sadness…

SAMIA: Yes.

PONSI: So sometime, at certain point, I may still need help, because I don't know when it's gonna hit me.

SAMIA: Yes.

PONSI: For somebody... if you know you are suicidal or something, please reach out. 

SAMIA: Yeah. Yeah, sometimes reaching out for help is the most courageous thing you can do. I know from my experience as a survivor of abuse… I swear to this day, I believe that the hardest thing I've done so far in my life, is to ask for help… that first time that I asked for help. I mean, oh my gosh…

PONSI: It’s a big step…

SAMIA: It's a huge step. It's a huge step…

PONSI: I felt so ashamed. I'm like, Why? Why is people sending me money? I'm not a charity case. We're not a charity… And my son actually said… yes you are, you're poor, you’re destitute, you have no money. You don't even know how to bury Papa. There's no money…. So yeah... So they say that's… it's… it takes bravery, beyond bravery, to ask for help…

SAMIA: Yes.

PONSI: …and accept…

SAMIA: Yes... to accept it…ahh… indeed… Yes, to ask for help takes humongous courage and then to accept the help in the different forms that it comes, that also takes lots and lots of courage, yes.

PONSI: Well, I hope topic is not too, too heavy. But it is facts of life…

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, my gosh, we could keep talking about this. And I think maybe for today, we will wrap up. We're… we've been talking for quite a bit of time…

PONSI: I know, I don't have a clock. I’ve just been enjoying your company…

SAMIA: Yes, me too, me too…

PONSI: Hopefully, this is helpful to someone.

SAMIA: Yeah.

PONSI: I'm getting to know you, you get to know me, and I know my purpose is bigger than life now... 

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah…

PONSI: So I… yeah… I'm so excited to be going on this kind of medical retreat, and then we'll see what tomorrow bring. 

SAMIA: Yes. One day at a time... yeah.

PONSI: Yes, I know this is part of my quest, part of my quest. And to meet me just before all this happen, and to reconnect again… I'm so honored to be on your show.

SAMIA: Thank you Ponsi, thank you so much... And you know, maybe we'll bring you back so we can keep talking... And… because I really do feel that this is a really important issue for us to address and think about and talk to each other with. And you're so right, so many of us don't want to face it, we don't want to deal with it, but it's so important to do. So, we'll see. maybe we will keep talking about it in a future episode. For now, I will just remind our listeners to please check the show notes as I will add Ponsi’s links in there. So if you think she may be able to help you or support you in any way, please get in touch with her. And I'm here of course too. Yeah… and until we can get next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy… :)