SAMIA: Hello, Salaam, Shalom, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Aloha, Holah, Ciao, Bonjour, Buna, and Privet! It's really, really good to be with you again. And you know what, of course, we have a very special guest with us today. And I'm so happy to have her with us. And our guest today is Vivienne Joy, who is a Deep Structure Mindset Expert. That is so cool. Welcome…

VIVIENNE: Hi... Had to find a hello that you hadn't used… Hi…

SAMIA: Oh, please, please tell us more about who you are and what you do…

VIVIENNE: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. So yeah, I'm Vivienne Joy and I'm known for helping women to get out of their own way. So I help them understand all of that mindset block, that self-talk, that kind of quite self-debilitating, self-sabotaging, procrastinating, that pretty much every woman knows at some point... And yeah, so we understand where it comes from. So the deep structure stuff is understanding the origin of all this kind of self-talk. And then we reset it and restructure the neural pathways. So that's what I do. And then I help women to build their business. So give them the skills, and the self-belief, and the confidence, and determination to then leave a legacy. So I go from, right from… I'm not gonna do anything to wow, I can change the world, and I'm gonna leave a legacy. So quite powerful experience and very, very rewarding. Yeah, that's what I do…

SAMIA: Oh, that's amazing... I love that. And, you know, in some ways you mirror what I love to do with my clients also. I'm a Happiness Expert, of course. So my first priority is really helping my clients really gain a sense of control over their mental, emotional health. Because I think you and I are on the same page on this, that really good mental health is at the bottom or the foundation of all the success we can achieve. And, you know, good mental health includes, you know, dealing with all of that mind talk that we have going on… that can really bog us down… like the criticisms, and the judgments, and the shame, guilt, etc... that oftentimes, even more than other people, we tend to put on ourselves... And it's…

VIVIENNE: Absolutely, yeah... comes from inside our head. We are the biggest critic and bully to ourselves than anyone outside of us. And especially, if we've had that in our lives, if we've been bullied, or we've been chastised or told we can't, or we're not good enough, we're too loud, we're not loud enough, we’re, you know, too clever or not clever enough, too pretty, not pretty enough… we then will believe that and carry on that conversation in our head continuously to the state where we absolutely believe it and we make it real. It becomes our reality... And so unprogramming that, that can take some time if you're doing it from now backwards. But if you can go back to the point of origin, you know… somebody in school at the playground or a parent said something inadvertently, or someone of higher power or authority, had said something to you when you were in a heightened state of emotion, and you formed that belief…we can unpick it right there… it does a thing called a gestalt, where it literally will then unchain the rest of the events throughout the life from that point forward... So it's quite magical, and to watch it happening is… it's quite addictive… I'm not gonna lie… quite addicted to that breakthrough point... that moment of "Ahh!"... And I've got so many stories of my own… actually, you know, I've done a lot of this work to be able to do what I do. I train and mentor and accredit coaches myself… so help them to be NLP coaches, which are the processes that help us understand what's going on in the neurology of our brain, and how it's impacting our lives and how it's showing up. So yeah, very, very important... Somebody said to me, actually, yesterday, that mental health is life wealth. And I thought that was lovely. I really liked it… I was like, I'm having this... I'm going to speak about that tomorrow... So here we are, and it's true. Because if we don't have that right mindset, that right self-talk, that right inner guidance, and confidence... then everything outside of ourselves is not our own creation. It’s coming from someone, somewhere else. And that is… that's very disempowering because then we're living someone else's life. And so many women especially, we live the life that their partner wants, their parents thought, the children think they should have... And you know, we should be our true selves, and therefore we have utmost confidence at all times.

AD HERE

SAMIA: Yes, you're so true. I mean, even men are impacted by this dynamic for sure. I think what happens with us ladies, though, is that we care more… maybe it's like a nurturer thing where we are also taught to be more caring about what other people think. And not just caring about what they think, but you know, this is something I would often argue with my mom about in my rebellious days, where she was like, it's your job as the woman to keep the peace... Because men, they are not as mature, they're not as emotionally intelligent when it comes to dealing with relationships... So it's your job as the woman…

VIVIENNE: I do think they've improved over time... I think that probably… but I think women, yeah, women naturally do seem to care more what other people think, for some reason… whereas men are more self-serving. Not all… that is a big sweeping statement, I know. And anybody watching this, you maybe like, but that's not the case in my life, which is… well done, congratulations. But yeah, in my experience, and I've coached lots of men, they usually have a problem, they find a solution, they get on with it. It's not normally about other things outside of them… actually apart from parents, sometimes that can work… but so yeah... So women, we like to think about it or want to talk about it, we want to know why, we want to work out how… like, we really are very curious and inquisitive. Whereas guys, in my experience, they find the problem, they fix it. And again, like it's a very different experience in their own head… they have a very different levels of self-talk... Their self-talk is all about problem-solving. Whereas ours is all about the actual problem itself… like, stuck in that problem. Because our brains naturally want to find a way of being safe. That is what we're conditioned for. That's all we’re conditioned for… the unconscious and primal brain is to keep us alive, keep us safe, and to procreate, actually… that is really quite primal, really in that way. So it doesn't... it's not set for success, and joy, and happiness, and fulfillment, and satisfaction... It's set for safety, staying the same, uncertainty. And unfortunately, those three things don't line up to joyful experiences in life. But they are, you know, keep us very same and quite boring and quite bored. Even in situations that we don't like, we will stay in them. So plenty of people stay in relationships and jobs that don't serve them, and friendships that don't serve them… health patterns… because it's known. And the brain says… the unconscious brain… which has nothing to do the conscious brain, by the way, really says... Well, this is what we're going to keep doing because it's nice and safe. And so if we grow up that pattern into running a business, it's really unsafe… like, there's nothing safe about running a business. Like, mostly, at the time, you don't know if you're going to be able to build the business, you don't have the skills to sell, and market, and the strategy to keep that happening... You don't know if what you're going to deliver is right, you don't know if your pricing is right. You don't know if when you're talking on a video live that people are going to accept you or judge you... So it's a really unsafe environment. And most people are battling through that... through, you know, against their own nature, really, which is to stay nice and safe, and sit and watch Netflix and eat ice cream… which is what most of us end up doing when we get into our first days... So yeah… so a lot of what I do is to help people to just nudge themselves into a different level of comfort zone... To understand actually what is really necessary… rather than go full force into the business and then fail, which we see a lot of, you know, most businesses fail…

SAMIA: That is such an excellent point. That is such an excellent point. You're right... I remember having a chat with my dad, maybe when I was a teenager, I was like in my late teens... And I have like people in my family who have always been business people. And, like, I've heard them, you know, like growing up talking about business. And at one level they would say things and I'd be like… this is not complicated, like, what's the big deal, you know, about doing business... And I asked my dad that at one point in time and he said, you know, what gets really complicated about businesses is that… the unpredictability… because things are always changing... like in the market, in the environment, in terms of what people are needing, the trends, etc... And so that's the tricky part is being able to stay in touch with all of that change and then be willing to adapt to it. Because a lot of times, you know, we… we’re not either aware of the change, we're, like, just… okay, I started to do things this way in my business and then this worked for me, this is working for me, just keep going, keep going, keep going... And you know, there's this resistance to change... But it can really be our downfall. And then he did mention a second reason why business can be difficult, but that's going to take us on a different track…

VIVIENNE: ..that change you’re talking about… I know that's what you do…

SAMIA: Yeah.

VIVIENNE: …that’s what nobody wants to do because change is risky, and change is not safe, change is not the same, change is not certain... So what we have to do is get that level of certainty. So I do a lot of visualization. NLP is very much about timeline, understanding the timeline of where you've come from, and a timeline of where you're going so that you can kind of vision it... So you can really vision it in all its glory, not just the loveliness, but actually, like for example, I've run lots of lots of events, big events. And the first time I ran a summit, I remember one of my clients said, are you nervous? I said, No. I have visioned and lived this event 1,000 times right down to nobody arriving, my speakers not arriving, the tech not working, the food not being there, the toilets not working, the coffee... So I've problem solved every part of that. So actually, on the day, there's not really anything to fear because my brain has gone through that change process already. And it's already accepting... So everything went perfectly apart from it snowed… we had the beast from the east over in the UK. I don't know if you remember that. The first… I know it well… First of March 2019… first time I ran a big event. And all of the women that arrived did so despite the snow. So it was very empowering. Some had never driven in the snow before… it was a really big deal. But so yeah, that whole kind of creating the change that's right in the right way is really, really important. Because the trouble is, what happens is, we think… Oh, that person over there got a great business or a great life or a great relationship... They must be doing it right. I must be doing it wrong, I have to do it their way. And then what happens is lots of people following all the kinds of very successful coaches and leaders in the world, trying to do it their, the coaches way, or the leaders way. And that's not their own way. So eventually, they're doing life in somebody else's shoes. And that doesn't work either... And also, because the person has done it like that is because they have the skill, and they had the idea, and it was their… it was their thing. So yeah, we always want to stay safe. That is our first primary objective is to stay safe. And you should remember that. But most of us say, what's wrong with me? Why can't I just do this? Why can't I just get on with it? Why can’t I JFDI? What can’t I, you know, the Nike slogan, just get on with it… No… because your brain is going to do everything to keep you where you are now... It's gonna… you're literally fighting a natural urge the whole time. So that's what's… nothing wrong with you. Your brain is working correctly, it's doing what it's supposed to do, to try and keep you safe. So yeah, that curiosity of what if I did it slightly differently each time, like building small habits, you know… I can't remember who wrote the book on that... That's a very empowered way of doing things.

SAMIA: I love that!

VIVIENNE: …I make massive changes very quickly because I've been doing it a long time. So I can vision it really very clearly... It’s helped me decide a lot of stuff. Sometimes I vision things, like launching things and things actually don't look… I don't like it, it doesn't feel right. And that way I can stop myself from making that mistake, which would definitely be a mistake... How do you make change? What's the… how do you do things? What's your process?

SAMIA: Oh, interesting... So well, you know, in the context of mental health, creating change in the context of mental health… that's my area of specialization... And so when I wrote my book, I created a very clean, clear, simple three-step system. And it's basically like… stop, healing, and grow…

VIVIENNE: Nice. I like it!

SAMIA: So it's like, first of all, you have to stop what's wrong, or what the problem is... You have to stop the damage from getting worse. You know, like, if you take an analogy of what if you were in an accident and you got physically injured… you know you go to the doctor, the first thing they're going to do is crisis management, right. If you're bleeding, you need to stop the bleeding. If you have a broken bone you have to make sure you set it so the damage doesn't continue to get worse… So you have to identify what those causes are that might be… that have created the damage and create more damage. You put a stop to that. And then you start the healing process... You know, that's like emergency stuff, crisis managed, you know, but then you still have to recover... So that's, that's its own skill set, you know, to sort of work with. And then once you have been working on the recovery piece, you reach a certain point where you're like… Oh, I'm back to where I was before we had that crisis. And unfortunately, most people just stop right there. But actually, you can keep growing from there. And that's my favorite stage…

VIVIENNE: I love that. Yeah, I know, I love that…

SAMIA: Yes. So it's like, keep growing after the healing, you know, and achieve even more excellence, become even better than you were before the crisis happened... So, I mean that the…

VIVIENNE: I love that… you keep growing, keep coming alive.

SAMIA: Exactly.

VIVIENNE: I love that. That's lovely, yeah. So it sounds like you've got personal experience of this. I feel like I'm interviewing you now. But I'm genuinely curious. I love that. Like, we... like many of us, as coaches, and, you know, therapists or healers, in some way, we are healing a version of ourselves. So something has happened. That's why we're so passionate to help people. And you can tell the people that are doing that. And then there's others that are doing it more for money and for, you know, building a business in a different way. So it sounds like you've had that where there's been a crisis on you…

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed... I do talk about my own journey a lot. So I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse. And so, you know… I mean, everyone suffered trauma in their lives… everyone... I don't know a single person who hasn't suffered… maybe they haven't suffered a major trauma that they're able to immediately identify like I can. But everyone suffered small, big trauma, sometimes vicarious trauma, where you're just dealing with other people's traumas in terms of being present for their stuff. And/but, you know, when you do have a major trauma in your life, that sort of, really… like for me, it just changed everything. And just made me focus... so focused… first, like, for a good decade on just my suffering… and like, I couldn't even think about or care about anyone or anything else…

VIVIENNE: That's the problem… remember what I said earlier… women get stuck in the problem…

SAMIA: Yes!

VIVIENNE: ...like, we revel in it… why and what did I do wrong? Why me? And we kind of sit in that victim mindset.

SAMIA: Yes. And, you know, the good thing about being in that stage also, for me, was that one of the why's that I started asking was, like… not only why is this happening to me, but or happened to me... Or, you know, like… but I also started asking the how… it's like, how can I help myself? How can I help myself stop suffering… because I am… like, I reached a point where I was like, I can't take it anymore. I can't take it anymore... So it really got me focused on learning everything that I could to… like, really, it was, I started with just trying to help myself. And then you know, you reach a point in your healing journey where you're like, oh, it's actually not all about me. And actually, when I help somebody else, it actually helps me more... Yeah… Oh, my gosh, yeah. And it was like a really beautiful realization for me… because I have a brother who has… I mean, he has a genetic disorder. Because of  which, you know, he has a disability... He's been in a wheelchair now for, oh, my gosh, like 25 years or something. But when he first hit a point of crisis in his condition that landed him in the wheelchair… you know, it was like a point of decision. Like, it was such a huge thing for my whole family to deal with. And it was a point where I had to make a decision… am I going to stay wrapped up in my own stuff? Or am I going to do something to help my brother… and thank God I made the decision to try and do something to help my brother because that for me was one of the first major breakthroughs I experienced in terms of coming out of my own fog and suffering and, you know, the blackness that I had been stuck in... It was like the first ray of light that guided me down the healing path. So yeah…

VIVIENNE: Well done. I think so many stay in that and they either suffer in depression or they sadly decide not to be here anymore in this incarnation. So yeah, so well done for finding that... I think… I look back… I'm, yeah… I've had a lot of trauma in my life, of which all of it I have recovered from... So I consider myself to be pretty resilient, you know…

SAMIA: Yeah.

VIVIENNE: …I think some people don't think they can cope. And that self-talk that we talked about before… I can't cope, how am I going to survive, what are we going to… That actually creates the problem. That actually becomes the problem… Because people do recover, the mind recovers, the body recovers, you know, most. But actually, the mindset is set. That… the reason it's called a mindset is... it’s what its whole job is… it's not mind expansion, it's mindset. So if you can change it, and unset it, and just move it slightly… and it sounds like you did exactly that… okay, let's not focus on this now… this is where I was set… I'm going to focus over here slightly.  I'm just going to focus on something outside of me or something that's going to give me a solution... So when we go into solution-based thinking, that is where we start to get our answers, that's where we start to get our shifts and our movements. So yeah… but most clients when they arrive with me, and I'm sure with you, they are in this kind of stuck, kind of going round in a circle, and a cycle of, you know, self debilitation and, you know, problems… and of course problems create problems and attract more problems, and problem people as well. That kind of energy, kind of… I don't know what your beliefs are on energy work, but that kind of brings more… we attract… like attracts like, don’t they say... So in this growth phase… we kind of find solutions… we, you know… solutions come towards us, and we attract people in our world that help us to grow. So well done for getting yourself out of that situation.

SAMIA: It's all God's love, truly… like, that's my very firm belief that if I've been able to achieve any healing, any recovery… because I didn't know what I was doing… no idea… like, as a survivor of child sexual abuse, I didn't even know what to call what I had experienced. I didn't even have the language, you know. And so it's truly, like, for me, it has been a process of recognizing just one blessing after another, and just one helpline after another, that's been sent my way… And thank God, I had enough motivation, you know, to grab on and do what I could to move forward... Because you're right, that is not something that we can, we can take for granted. Like, you're not always in that receptive mindset… And that’s when you’re, like, really stuck, you know. And I think that's actually the most difficult part, probably, to deal with… is like, when you're not in that receptive mindset, you know… you're… somebody's offering you love, somebody's offering you help, but you're not in the mindset to receive… I mean, I guess in some ways, with the work that we do, by the time our people find us, they… they are in a receptive stage, they're wanting to be helped. But some are…

VIVIENNE: …some are very broken and desperate actually. Sometimes the desperation creates a lack of belief in self… like, I can never be any different, I'm so bad now, I'm so broken, I'm so debilitated, I'm so... my mindset is so bad that no one can help me. I've had that said to me so many times. I'm like give me 15 minutes, you know. I offer a 15-minute call to anybody really, because my vocation in life is to help those people. So well, let's just have 15 minutes and just see, shall we… let's just check how that is going. Because I can tell you now, it'll be one thing that's creating everything. And once we can understand what that is, and we can unpack and unpick and reset that… and like you say, let's get it to heal… So why don't we, you know… it's like having a bullet in you… You can't heal while the bullet’s in there. So let's get the bullet out and then we'll let the wound heal and then as you say we can move on…

SAMIA: Yes... Yes… you're so right, you're so right… because I agree with you… like, it does come down to that mindset piece as the root cause... And I love what you just were sharing also about… for the people who are in that stuck place where they're feeling like, oh, I'm just stuck, and nothing can be done… to be like, Hey, let's just give it a try… 15 minutes… I love it…

VIVIENNE: What have you got to lose, kind of stuff… like... what have you got to lose… worst case scenario, we'll have a chat and you will absolutely be proved right that you're completely broken and no one can help you. And, you know, then you can at least… but this way, at least you'll know rather than… we tell ourselves some utter rubbish… we really do... We tell ourselves things that are not true and haven't been true for years. You know, I created a belief when I was about eight years old, based on a little experience that I had with my mother… wasn't her intention…. But one day, I couldn't get to school. I wasn't very well. I didn't want to get out of bed. You know, if you've got children, you can identify with this... And my mom shouted up the stairs to me, you're so lazy, Vivian. And my head put that down as a belief. And I've had such a problem to release that belief. And I'm like, sometimes I work 15-hour days because I'm so committed to what I do. Like, that's not the behavior of a lazy person. Yet, sometimes I still hear myself say, come on, don't be so lazy... And I laugh at it now. I'm just like, oh, it's ridiculous that my eight-year-old self… I'm now 50 years old… is still having an impact on my 50-year-old self even though I've proven time and time again how not lazy I am. So yeah, sometimes the beliefs we lay down… and oftentimes, they were never true in the first place, anyway... I wasn't lazy even as an eight-year-old. I just wasn't well. So yeah, we have all sorts of beliefs…

SAMIA: There's this idea that oftentimes, you know… when people will say things to us that are hurtful, either we will take it on as true, and then, you know, work accordingly. Or there's a part of us that, you know, feels rebellious. And it's like, no, I will prove you wrong. And I find... I would love to get your perspective on like… when you get into this energy of the rebellion of prove… I will prove you wrong… Is that a helpful energy and mindset to be in? Or is there any downsides to that also? How do you deal with that?

VIVIENNE: That's a really great question. I can't answer it from that perspective, because I'm… I don't... I'm trying to reach into my brain and think… have I ever needed to prove someone wrong… but I've done this work for so many years… I started NLP when I was 23. So a long, long time ago, before, you know, it was mainstream… before anybody knew what it was really. Tony Robbins was the only guy really using it. And I learned very much it wasn't about anyone else. So I didn't have to prove anyone wrong. But I tell you what… proving myself right… I never really realized that until this moment, but actually proving myself right… Like, I can do this, I have got this. I am capable. So I was made redundant from a job about 20 years ago… must have been… I've been in business for 20 years. And it wasn’t about proving them wrong as much to say, I'm proving how good I can do this if you don't make me redundant. So I think it was not really about them. It was always about me. But I'm not saying people don't have that. But I think whatever you can use… if you've got it within you, you can use it. And so it's better to use that energy to propel you forward than to say… Oh, actually, you're right, I'm rubbish. I can't do that. I'm not useful. I'm not… you know, whatever else has been said... That would just kind of keep you stuck. So it isn't… if it's gonna motivate you forward, use whatever force you can get, right, until you realize what is doing that and can let that go. It's a bit like... it's a bit like it's an anchor or a rudder, isn't it? So one is going to steer you, one's going to weigh you down. So if it is going to steer you then go and be steered by whatever that, you know… could be a storm, but it's going to get you to the island, rather than sit in that path in water. So yeah, great question, though. But no, never had to prove anybody wrong. Actually, not ever... I've had to prove myself wrong a few times... prove yourself wrong Vivienne… you're not lazy, I know what you can do. Why don't you run a 5k? You know, why don't you do a marathon? Why don't you swim like five kilometers and prove that you're not lazy? So if anything else, it's the other way around, actually. Great question really…

SAMIA: Yeah. You know, I asked that question because I know, I have gone through this a lot in my life where… either I'm like, trying to prove somebody wrong, or where I was trying to prove myself, right. I love that perspective of looking at the situation... And while it did propel me forward to a certain extent, I did find myself reaching a point where this sort of started to become dysfunctional for me, you know…

VIVIENNE: ..like a vengeance, revenge thing. Yeah…

SAMIA: Not even like when vengeance and revenge, but, like limiting my sense of choice in what I could do... Because you know, it's like… if I'm so, so, like, stuck on this idea of proving myself right or proving that other person wrong, then I have to do the thing that will prove to them, or to myself, that I'm right and they're wrong. And so then, you know, for every choice I make, there's consequences, right? Like, everything I say yes to doing, and focusing on and spending my time on, I'm saying no to lots of other things, you know. And so I found that it started to restrict my sense of choice in what I could do. And that was like, a huge problem... And then I also realized that there were a few people in my life who seemed to realize this about me. And they started to use this against me. They were like… when they wanted me to do something, they'd be like, oh, prove me wrong... Prove me right... if I would resist, you know, then you'd be like, oh, so you are like this, you're like that... And if you're not, then prove me wrong by doing what I said. And I'd be like, I'm gonna prove you wrong. You know, and so it actually... Yeah. And I didn't even realize that it became like a tool of manipulation that people were using against me because they realized this pattern that I have developed. And it was such a strong pattern that I had developed…

VIVIENNE: Well you see everything is a pattern. Everything we do in life is a pattern... We're born and we create beliefs and strategies of the life. Everything is a pattern… that's what NLP is... So we're understanding those patterns, and scrambling them, and changing them, and that's how we reprogramming the Neural Pathways... So that pattern was a strong one. Yeah... A strong driver by the sign of things… but sometimes we don't understand why we do things. Like, somebody said to me the other day about things we do in the kitchen, that our mothers did. Like, I don't know about you, but I still do that... Sometimes I think, I am actually my mother at this point. I'm just doing some, like, why am I still doing this? Why do I put this cloth into this bit of liquid here? Like what... Like I've got... I can afford all the cloths in the world now… like, my mum probably had that one cloth that she had to make last... Like, we're still doing the same things that we all did because that's our normal. It's safe, it's certain, and it's the same… remember... So that's why. So that pattern served you at some point, and then you just did it again, and again, and again, until it no longer served you... But we have to be able to get leverage for change… Like, change doesn't normally just happen... It's like, we either have to be really bad where we are or really good where we want to go... Like, kind of light and dark. It has to be really dark and horrible for us to go, well, I'm not being here anymore, or really light, and beautiful, and gorgeous for us to go, right, I want to be over there. And once we can get ourselves into… I don't like it here, and I really want to be there… that's where that motivation becomes dedication. Like, we're absolutely doing it. It's, you know, no question, no nothing… and there's not... And if we can see our future past that as well, then that is just another stepping stone to where we're going. So that's how our potential is realized...

SAMIA: Nice! I love that…

VIVIENNE:  …We’ve got a great job... It's just a powerful, beautiful, lovely, energetic, you know, lovely job... Some of my friends have got jobs and I just think, God, I couldn't do that job... I just think, oh… they probably look at me and think they couldn't listen to people all day... So they probably couldn't do it either... But it's lovely when you find your thing, isn't it…

SAMIA: Indeed, indeed... I think one of the greatest joys in our life is being able to do what we love and make money at it... Because you can truly do it and not worry about having to do something else to get the money so that you can survive in this world, in terms of, you know, the need for money... That is so awesome…

VIVIENNE: Been so lovely... Thank you.

SAMIA: Yes, indeed. Ah, thank you so much, Vivienne... I'm sorry to say we are running out of time for today, but I really, really appreciate all the wisdom you have shared with us... And there is actually still questions that are coming to my mind, that I would love to follow up with you... 

VIVIENNE: Lovely! Well, you know where I am. I am happy to be here... Always let me know.

SAMIA: We'll probably have to call you back... But just for right now, do you have any last thoughts that you'd like to share?

VIVIENNE: No, just that, you know what, everything's changing anyway... So you know, you have to go with the changes. So you may as well enjoy it. Enjoy the change. Now I'm Vivienne Joy, and that's “She Enjoys” is the name of my business… because most people don't enjoy it. They fight it, they don't want it… Like, you should be the person that creates the change for yourself and it's your change... you're empowered to do that… not because someone else says or because you think you have to… So if you can turn your life into being the change that you're creating for yourself, being that changemaker and leader of your own life, that's where the joy comes from... That's where the satisfaction and feeling like you're living that life of freedom that everybody talks about… So yeah, if you're stuck and, you know, you want to change, or you need to change, or you have to change, or you're in that place, and you… you do need support... Like I'm the best coach and the coach trainer I know. And I get told that a lot... But I struggle to change myself. I need someone to ask me better questions, and help me understand me, because... It's a bit like somebody said to me once, "An optician can't operate on their own eye. Like, an eye surgeon can't do that own eye surgery." And it's exactly the same… So anybody listening to this, if you're stuck, and it doesn't feel right, then it's wrong. And get some help if you need some help. And there's lots of people around can help you. And make sure it feels right when you're getting the help from that person. Because not everybody that is there is right for you. So yeah, they're my last thoughts on it, really…

SAMIA: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much... And absolutely, I agree with you on that. And for those of you who are listening, I'm going to give you my last thought, slash, reminder... And that is to check the show notes because we are going to drop Vivienne's links there. So if you feel connected with Vivienne, if you feel that she's the right person who might be able to help and support you... please connect with her, and yes, get the help and support that you need whenever you feel ready for that. And until we connect next time, I just wish you lots and lots of peace and joy....

VIVIENNE: Thank you, me too... :)