SAMIA: Yeah.

SAMIA: Yeah.

ZACK: Right, again that's a whole other conversation. The goal isn't to stop the mind. The ego mind just wants to stay alive. If one chooses to progressively detach from the ways in which the ego is attaching itself to your consciousness, the ego's days are then numbered and it will inevitably cease to exist in your consciousness if you stay the course of progressively letting go of its attachments. So understand that it's just staying attached to anything... the past, the future, desires, wants, needs, positions we would call them... positions, ego positions.

SAMIA: Yeah.

ZACK: And it's just doing that for the function of its own survival and safety. That's why it's hard, because people identify as their ego, and as their thoughts. We say, if I let go of that which I am attached to then a part of my identity dies, and that's not safe, that's not safe. And so it says to maintain my survival and safety don't let go. And so it creates then a fear with the concept of letting go of something.

SAMIA: So are you saying that we can let go of our desires and our attachments and arrive at a state where our ego is no longer in control of our consciousness, and we can continue to survive and live a happy life?... Because the ego is telling me, "Hey! I'm doing this to help us survive here"... so if you/if I actually don't listen to it and I let my ego go, how can I still survive? Can I still survive?

ZACK: That’s... the trick is that the ego isn't smart. It doesn't actually have your best interests at heart. It doesn't know that what it is identifying or claiming as a threat to your survival and safety really actually isn't. I'm saying for the most part, okay, right, for the most part. What it sees as a threat to your survival and safety we know consciously isn't, but unconsciously it's not aware of this. So it's not intelligent, it's not rational or logical... it just, it just goes, “this is bad”. Why? Because we learned in some past experience that this is bad based on the context or the emotion that was experienced at the time of that event. And so it becomes associated, and that's what the learning is. We learned that that is bad because we had a past/previous experience, and now to keep you alive and safe we're gonna make sure that you avoid or evade situations where you could encounter that whatever it may be.

SAMIA: Yeah, It's not necessarily taking into account the different circumstances, the different context, and my own increased capacity to deal with the situation that I'm in right now.

ZACK: Yes, it's... this is why we can say, it's not our enemy. It does have... it's well intentioned. It just doesn't understand that it's not the best way of enabling you, the real you, to thrive.

SAMIA: Yeah, yeah! And so when you say the real you, what do you mean by that? Who is the real me? <

ZACK: Consciousness. Consciousness. We are all expressions of consciousness. Because we could say, well the soul, the real you is the soul/spirit. But if we stay within that level or definition of the real you, it's still a level or a degree of separation defining that all of our spirits are separate. But it's all... it's all energy, frequency, and vibration. So even though something appears, looks, sounds, feels, to be separate, again it's not objective truth. It's just one's perception. So I wouldn't... so while the real you is spiritual, is a soul, we're all our soul, our spirit, it's all part of the greater whole. It's like the drops in the ocean.

SAMIA: Right, right! Oh I love that. I love that :). My favorite analogy also is actually just that, that we are all like drops in the ocean. And my goal as the drop that I am is to just melt fully into the ocean... ahh.

ZACK: Yeah, that's a great analogy, yeah. So to become one... back to oneness.

SAMIA: Yes, yes! And oh my gosh! I love reflection on oneness also. We probably won't have time to go into it right now. Maybe you'll have to come back for a third time for us to talk about... about that. But you know this notion that all is one, that has also had a huge impact on my way of thinking and development. And it really grounds my philosophy of life now. And I recognize that this oneness, it's in the... at least in our experience in this world, it's not like a oneness of uniformity. Because obviously there is, you know, diversity in the way we experience the world. And in life, in this life... so it's not so much about uniformity but it's more about connection, and everything being interconnected and interdependent in the context of this world's reality. But beyond that, when we can move beyond that, then we can actually experience a more complete oneness... but yeah maybe that's something to talk about another day.

ZACK: Sounds good. I look forward to it :).

SAMIA: Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to share for right now, for today Zack?

ZACK: Well, I think in keeping with the theme of today's conversation... attachments, right, and the letting go, or the surrendering of those attachments, being the pathway to emotional, psychological, spiritual freedom... it would be to become aware of what you are most attached to. And notice that what and whichever the ways in which you're suffering most, it's merely due to being attached to whatever it is that you're attached to. And so just know that the source of one's pain and suffering isn't something or someone separate from you, outside of you, in your external environment. It may be in relation, it may involve something that is seen outside of you, or someone... But it's your perception of it that literally causes your experience of it. And just understand that what I said just within that piece, there lies the answer to your freedom. If we can change your, if you can change your own perception, which you can, by understanding that all you need to do is recontextualize... the core foundation of spiritual work is simply recontextualizing life.

SAMIA: Yeah.

ZACK: Recontextualizing your interaction and relationship with life... If it's negative, change your perception of what you experience as negative. And understand, essentially, you know, it sounds like a lot there... but understand... Essentially, if you choose to let go of what you're attached to and surrender that attachment, you'll find that the outcome is much better than remaining attached.

SAMIA: Yes! Oh I just love that, I just love that. So if there's something in your life you're struggling with, if there's something that, where you feel a sense of suffering, that is your clue that there's something you need to let go of… And to use that sense of suffering or struggle that you have as your clue to become more aware of what you need to let go of, and then practice letting go. And you'll be well on your way to achieving more inner peace and happiness and joy in your life, and making change more fun and easy.

ZACK: Most definitely yes.  

SAMIA: Yay! Woohoo, all right :). Any other last thoughts?

ZACK: Yeah, I just had one... but it's left my mind for the moment so maybe it'll come back to me for another conversation.

SAMIA: Awesome! Sounds good... Thank you again for joining me today Zack. I'm so appreciative of you having taken this time to be with us again. And I will look forward to having you come back again :).

ZACK: Sounds good :).

SAMIA: We have very interesting conversations. Thank you so much!

ZACK: Thank you as well.